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GOP poised to win the PR war

C

CriticalThought

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I think the Dems blew it. They did their Chicken Little routine on the tax bill but they lost the message. The GOP has branded this bill as a "tax cut for the middle class" and on the end of the day, more than 80 percent of Americans will see a tax cut their first year. Yeah, some future Congress may allow the individual rates to go up, but it is unlikely. So the Dems who successfully allied with the national media to create the impression that this was only a tax cut for the wealthy may have done a disservice to themselves in the long run. Granted that the wealthy will enjoy six times the benefits as the rest of us combined, but that doesn't make as compelling a soundbyte as "Armageddon!"

The message could have been on debt, high interest rates, rising inflation, and low wages. Once consumer confidence peaks, reality will likely set in, and the true cost of this bill will not be measured by how much of your paycheck you get to keep, but if your paycheck remains the same wage, buys less than it did before, and is split in more ways to pay down debts. The GOP knows nothing is free, and they are betting that average Americans will forget it and reward them for generously undermining their future to finance a measly middle class tax cut and a massive wealthy tax cut. Let's see how it plays out. My money is on the GOP.
 
A lot of people are going to pay less taxes. That is how you get votes. You do what you promised.
 
chuckiechan said:
A lot of people are going to pay less taxes. That is how you get votes. You do what you promised.
Click to expand...

And the debt will rise.

People do love "free stuff".

This is the Repub Santa, with 1.5 trillion in presents in his bag. The Repub Grinch will be along in a year or 2 trying to pay for it by stealing from SS and Medicare.

America is pretty myopic.
 
The bill was very unpopular. I think Dems won the PR war pretty handily. The PR war doesn't always translate to actual votes on legislation.
 
chuckiechan said:
A lot of people are going to pay less taxes. That is how you get votes. You do what you promised.
Click to expand...


Really because trump promised he would be a big loser from this tax plan and that the wealthy would not benefit.

You were conned.
 
I know I won't forget who authored this tax giveaway to the wealthy.

Their next target is the safety-net programs -- SS, Medicare, Medicaid.

Polls indicate that Trump/GOP has already lost the younger generation.

This will ensure they also lose the support of seniors (65+) and the overwhelming number of citizens approaching retirement (55-65).

10,000 Americans are retiring every day now and this wave will continue for the next 19 years.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
And the debt will rise.

People do love "free stuff".

This is the Repub Santa, with 1.5 trillion in presents in his bag. The Repub Grinch will be along in a year or 2 trying to pay for it by stealing from SS and Medicare.

America is pretty myopic.
Click to expand...

How will the debt rise?
Debt is driven by spending.
 
GDViking said:
Really because trump promised he would be a big loser from this tax plan and that the wealthy would not benefit.

You were conned.
Click to expand...

Lets see trump owns a lot of high end real estate whose deduct-ability for both taxes and interest has been all but eliminated for his tax return. Meanwhile the Clintons and Obama go on selling influence for a million bucks a speech as Trump takes no salary at all.

Do you think the Trumps will steal the White House furniture in 7 years as the Clintons did ?
 
bubbabgone said:
How will the debt rise?
Debt is driven by spending.
Click to expand...

Debt will increase because revenue will decrease. So for example, let's say program A cost $10 to operate. If your tax revenues were $10 before the tax cut, you could pay for it without any issues. But now, with the cut, tax revenues will only be $6, so in order to maintain program A, you will have to borrow $4.

As an alternative to borrowing, the GOP will likely slash and burn such programs to balance the budget.
 
Rogue Valley said:
I know I won't forget who authored this tax giveaway to the wealthy.

Their next target is the safety-net programs -- SS, Medicare, Medicaid.

Polls indicate that Trump/GOP has already lost the younger generation.

This will ensure they also lose the support of seniors (65+) and the overwhelming number of citizens approaching retirement (55-65).

10,000 Americans are retiring every day now and this wave will continue for the next 19 years.
Click to expand...

What if we closed the departments of education, agriculture, labor, commerce, housing, the EPA the department of energy and closed all our embassies in countries that don't count (Uruguay etc) what if we stopped funding "studies" (welfare for useless academics)

Would this help us control our deficits?

Retirement? Easy raise the age to 75 for federal "workers," no one should collect any pension at 55.
 
CriticalThought said:
I think the Dems blew it. They did their Chicken Little routine on the tax bill but they lost the message. The GOP has branded this bill as a "tax cut for the middle class" and on the end of the day, more than 80 percent of Americans will see a tax cut their first year. Yeah, some future Congress may allow the individual rates to go up, but it is unlikely. So the Dems who successfully allied with the national media to create the impression that this was only a tax cut for the wealthy may have done a disservice to themselves in the long run. Granted that the wealthy will enjoy six times the benefits as the rest of us combined, but that doesn't make as compelling a soundbyte as "Armageddon!"

The message could have been on debt, high interest rates, rising inflation, and low wages. Once consumer confidence peaks, reality will likely set in, and the true cost of this bill will not be measured by how much of your paycheck you get to keep, but if your paycheck remains the same wage, buys less than it did before, and is split in more ways to pay down debts. The GOP knows nothing is free, and they are betting that average Americans will forget it and reward them for generously undermining their future to finance a measly middle class tax cut and a massive wealthy tax cut. Let's see how it plays out. My money is on the GOP.
Click to expand...

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/19/heres-how-the-final-gop-tax-bill-would-hit-your-wallet.html

I did this interactive thing and even in 2025 I will end up paying less in Federal taxes.
 
beancounter said:
Debt will increase because revenue will decrease. So for example, let's say program A cost $10 to operate. If your tax revenues were $10 before the tax cut, you could pay for it without any issues. But now, with the cut, tax revenues will only be $6, so in order to maintain program A, you will have to borrow $4.

As an alternative to borrowing, the GOP will likely slash and burn such programs to balance the budget.
Click to expand...

Your basic idea is sound but let's make the example more real:

So for example, let's say program A cost $10 to operate. If your tax revenues were $9.50 before the tax cut, you could pay for it without any objection to borrowing issues. But now, with the cut, tax revenues will only be $9.25, so in order to maintain program A, you will have to borrow $0.25 more and that is said to be the straw that will break the camel's back.

If program A is meant to pay folks that do not earn enough to support themselves and their dependents (aka the "safety net") then any increase in employment opportunity or wages should reduce those in need of program A. That is what the republicants are counting on - whether that pans out or not will dictate their political future.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
And the debt will rise.

People do love "free stuff".

This is the Repub Santa, with 1.5 trillion in presents in his bag. The Repub Grinch will be along in a year or 2 trying to pay for it by stealing from SS and Medicare.

America is pretty myopic.
Click to expand...

Higher employment will solve a lot of problems.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
And the debt will rise.

People do love "free stuff".

This is the Repub Santa, with 1.5 trillion in presents in his bag. The Repub Grinch will be along in a year or 2 trying to pay for it by stealing from SS and Medicare.

America is pretty myopic.
Click to expand...

Obama had an approx 650 billion deficit in his last year as president

Did either side come after medicare or social security?

no....Why not?

Now....why do you think this will be any different?
 
gdgyva said:
Obama had an approx 650 billion deficit in his last year as president

Did either side come after medicare or social security?

no....Why not?

Now....why do you think this will be any different?
Click to expand...

https://www.fa-mag.com/news/rubio--...social-security--medicare-benefits-35928.html
"The only way you are going to deal with the debt is you have to do two things. ... You have got to generate economic growth because growth generates revenue. But you also have to bring spending under control. And not discretionary spending. That isn’t the driver of our debt," Rubio said.

"The driver of our debt is the structure of Social Security and Medicare for future beneficiaries. We still have time, not just to save those programs, but to responsibly structure them in a way that doesn’t impact current retirees or people about to retire. But it would probably impact it for me and people younger than, in ways that quite frankly you wouldn’t really notice and you wouldn’t really object to because it’s reasonable."
Click to expand...

One of my senators let the cat out of the bag.
 
chuckiechan said:
Higher employment will solve a lot of problems.
Click to expand...

Sure. If it happens. And if the jobs are good enough to increase the tax base such that it offsets to the tune of 1.5 trillion. Good luck with that.

Until then, this is another round of "borrow and spend", which is GOP SOP. At least they haven't started any more wars, yet.
 
chuckiechan said:
A lot of people are going to pay less taxes. That is how you get votes. You do what you promised.
Click to expand...
The repubs are better at appealing to the lowest uneducated rube common denominator
"it's my money"
Don't care if they get $50 and screw the rest.
The good old American way
Unbelievably selfish
I guess they have no prob sucking off their socialist VA SS Medicare benefits
 
<alt>doxygen said:
https://www.fa-mag.com/news/rubio--...social-security--medicare-benefits-35928.html


One of my senators let the cat out of the bag.
Click to expand...

and those are the elephants in the room that neither side has been willing to tackle for decades now

should they be addressed? you bet

will they? probably not

this congress will continue to kick the can down the road till there is no road left....like every congress before

all sides know the three elephants are defense, social security, and medicare

that is the only place serious cuts CAN come from....but neither D or R congresses have had the stones to address the issues

so they just keep adding debt....more deficits and it doesnt matter what side is in power

i would love it IF they actually would seriously talk about those 3 elephants....and work out how we are going to deal with them

but i seriously doubt that will happen....no matter what the talking heads are saying right now
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Your basic idea is sound but let's make the example more real:

If program A is meant to pay folks that do not earn enough to support themselves and their dependents (aka the "safety net") then any increase in employment opportunity or wages should reduce those in need of program A. That is what the republicants are counting on - whether that pans out or not will dictate their political future.
Click to expand...

Well considering the rates are dropping from almost 40% down to 21% (approx 47% decrease), I'd say my numbers are more accurate :)

This is the thing though, supply side economics is a complete fantasy.

Corps don't buy new factories and hire new people unless there is a real increase in demand, or they have a solid reason to believe demand will increase in the near future. Having idle/non productive assets sitting around can bleed a corp dry, and make the stockholders very unhappy. In my personal experience, corps are very risk adverse. They will not invest in people or infrastructure unless they have a high degree of confidence in an initiative.
 
gdgyva said:
and those are the elephants in the room that neither side has been willing to tackle for decades now

should they be addressed? you bet

will they? probably not

this congress will continue to kick the can down the road till there is no road left....like every congress before

all sides know the three elephants are defense, social security, and medicare

that is the only place serious cuts CAN come from....but neither D or R congresses have had the stones to address the issues

so they just keep adding debt....more deficits and it doesnt matter what side is in power

i would love it IF they actually would seriously talk about those 3 elephants....and work out how we are going to deal with them

but i seriously doubt that will happen....no matter what the talking heads are saying right now
Click to expand...

What the government spends its money on reflects the values of American society.
 
CriticalThought said:
I think the Dems blew it. They did their Chicken Little routine on the tax bill but they lost the message. The GOP has branded this bill as a "tax cut for the middle class" and on the end of the day, more than 80 percent of Americans will see a tax cut their first year. Yeah, some future Congress may allow the individual rates to go up, but it is unlikely. So the Dems who successfully allied with the national media to create the impression that this was only a tax cut for the wealthy may have done a disservice to themselves in the long run. Granted that the wealthy will enjoy six times the benefits as the rest of us combined, but that doesn't make as compelling a soundbyte as "Armageddon!"

The message could have been on debt, high interest rates, rising inflation, and low wages. Once consumer confidence peaks, reality will likely set in, and the true cost of this bill will not be measured by how much of your paycheck you get to keep, but if your paycheck remains the same wage, buys less than it did before, and is split in more ways to pay down debts. The GOP knows nothing is free, and they are betting that average Americans will forget it and reward them for generously undermining their future to finance a measly middle class tax cut and a massive wealthy tax cut. Let's see how it plays out. My money is on the GOP.
Click to expand...

Pretty much....
 
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