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Trump Voters: Behold your success

What are you talking about, that's the national average.



Your take-home income will increase, right now. By 2019, it will go right back to what it was. In the 2020's, you will see a tax increase. Which will happen in order to ensure that multi-millionaires can have theirs lowered. You will literally be taking money out of your pocket and handing it to rich people.



It's explained in the OP. If you didn't understand it, read it again.

I'm sorry. When I clicked you link, it took me to the Washington Post.

I assumed that you, like anyone else who links to any blindly biased source, were joking.

Couldn't you find anything in the Onion?
 
- Possibly and possibly not. It will depend on the details of your tax return. Someone demonstrated that in an earlier thread.

- If you decide to drop coverage because the penalty for having none, it gives you more freedom. If you're stupid, that can come back to bite.

Horse ****. If you make less than 70,000 dollars, you will pay more in taxes. Period.

It may be that by then certain things have allowed you to pay less, like not paying for health care, but if your argument is that you won't pay a net more because you no longer will have health insurance, please wait for me to stop laughing at how absurd your position is, but that may take some time.

- What you pay for yourself, you value more and work harder at.

Complete horse ****. A society that wants to actually maximize it's usage of its populace will not put arbitrary barriers up that will by its very nature keep certain people --who are otherwise qualified-- from getting jobs. That goes even more so for scarce skill sets like being good at STEM fields.

Your meaningless conservative faux folk wisdom is that same vacuous, nonsensical stupidity that is driving income inequality and killing economic mobility, the exact opposite of what your phrase is pretending to espouse.

If you are really good, the university will often pay. If not, take out a loan. You stand to make much more money, if you don't study something that doesn't pay.

This has been discussed before, but I guess you aren't going to bother yourself to make sure you're not stating something profoundly ignorant and incorrect.

1.) The university does often pay you, that's the problem. They're paying you and waiving your tuition. Republicans want to tax tuition.

2.) The university doesn't pay taxes for you. Literally, on basic legal grounds it can't do that. The only thing it can do is increase your salary, which pushes you further up in the tax bracket. Which means the university has to either lower its tuition, which is typically set in stone by university policies, or it has to pay students tens of thousand more dollars. Either way it makes it so that the university cannot afford the grad student or the grad student cannot afford the taxes to attend the university. The result is the same.

3.) No, educate yourself before you say things like this. You cannot take out student loans on graduate degrees. It's literally not legal, you would have to find private loans (which have astronomically large interest, if you can even get them) to cover living expenses while being a graduate student. Again, this is a major, serious barrier to getting a PhD.


I'm guessing by your unfamiliarity with these issues that you don't understand that basically overnight our entire university system will be in existential crisis because universities require grad students in order to function (teach, grade, low-level but necessary administration, etc). If you increase the pay of graduate students to compensate the enormous tax increases (which will themselves raise taxes higher), that cost will get offloaded onto undergraduate students' tuitions.

Nope. There are ways to criticise it, but those are not them.

No. There might be ways to attack what I said, but if there are you definitely haven't found them.

You can't escape the fact that the Republican party establishment is comprised of monsters. And if your worldview compels you to defend them, your worldview is monstrous as well. This bill was one of the most immoral pieces of garbage to come out of the Congress in 80 years, and it may irreparably damage the US economy if left unchecked.
 
I think it will take the ten years before people actually understand, in real terms, who they voted for. That's the point isn't it? This bill was designed to benefit the wealthy, but in order to sell it they wanted to be able to claim that it was some huge win for the middle class. So they came up with a few trinkets, that expire after ten years, so when Republican politicians went on CNN or MSNBC they could point to one or two things and justify the bill to regular Americans.

When the deficits from this start rolling in, and they will, we are going to see a lot of pressure to make cuts to multiple programs. My state is already repeating the Kansas experiment. Taxes were slashed on the upper end, deficits started rolling in, and every year we get to watch our universities get stripped of millions of dollars, state scholarships defunded, and whatever little program you could think of completely raided. Our state completely defends on expanded Medicaid, and the funding of programs like CHIP. Those programs will be under threat because of this bill.
 
Someone else was saying the same thing earlier in the day. You're probably right. But partisan folks cannot admit that.

I have no idea how this will affect others today or in the future.

Due to the lack of reliability in any news source you care to mention, I like to test thing on verifiable level.

It's a sad statement on the quality of our media that none of it is trustworthy.
 
By using the blanket statement it is my sense that it you that lied. Start with the fact a fair amount of people not only do not pay ANY federal tax but actually receive something called the earned income tax credit. Then note that the standard deduction has risen, since most people in the bracket you mentioned do not itemize the raise in the standard deduction helps these people the most.The elinination of the state and local tax deduction will hurt the uber rich, many of whom live high tax states like NY,Calif,Ct etc.

Sad that so few people understand the specifics of what this site talks about, else this OP would be derided by many.

Again, reality-denying nonsense.

1.) The earned tax income credit is a way to deduct taxes, there is no universal basic income in the US, which is what you actually just said was happening. It isn't, therefore you're just wrong on this point.

2.) Corporate taxes just got slashed by 15% and income taxes at the highest brackets just got massive decreases. Even if a few minor removals of tax write-offs will not compensate the fact that the rich will shave trillions of dollars off of their collective taxes. It's just a stone cold fact, dude, read literally any report on what this tax bill will do. Here's a nice summary.

3.) We know this is the case. Republicans admitted that they had no choice but to either pass this bill or their mega-rich donors would refuse to fund them. They didn't demand this after putting billions into 2016 elections so they could pay more. So stop pretending either of us are stupid enough to think this. We both know this is bull****.
 
I'm sorry. When I clicked you link, it took me to the Washington Post.

I assumed that you, like anyone else who links to any blindly biased source, were joking.

Couldn't you find anything in the Onion?

Translation: Oh right, I'm completely wrong. Let me pretend like my previous, straightfaced post was a joke because I don't have a case to make.

Thanks for playing.
 
We don't really know yet, what the impact on the economy two or three years out will be. It's too new to have crunched the numbers.

Trickledown economics didn't work for the past 40 years. Therefore taking the most extreme, unadulterated neoliberal vision of trickledown will not suddenly make trickledown neoliberalism work. Or if it will, you need a serious goddamn argument for why 10x'ing down on failed economic policy will work.
 
If that is true, then the Repubs will be slaughtered in 2018. Be happy. Blame Democrats if you really believe your post. If anyone else except HC has been the nomineee, a Dem would have won hands down. The Dems NEVER should have run her. To choose a candidate based on political payback is a very stupid thing to do, especially if the name is Hillary Clinton. Had Bernie been treated fairly by the DNC, there’s a very good chance he would have beaten HC. I and many others would have been HAPPY to vote for him over Trump.

I don't disagree, but speaking as a Bernie supporter who hated her for cheating against Bernie in the primaries and being the living embodiment of the establishment and its interests: It was still no contest between her and the imbecile who is now our president.

Hillary may have been a liar and a cheat, but no one believes that a bill this monstrous would have happened under her watch.
 
Blame Democrats if you really believe your post.

Blame the Democrats for the GOP's godawful tax legislation? Is there some reason we can't blame the GOP and Trump for what they've done? Or their voters for enabling it?
 
Translation: Oh right, I'm completely wrong. Let me pretend like my previous, straightfaced post was a joke because I don't have a case to make.

Thanks for playing.

So you are saying that the WaPo presentation of news is unbiased and straight news. Perfect!

Here's another view that's actually based on facts.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/h...middle-class-and-wealthy-taxpayers-2017-11-03
<snip>
The bottom line

The GOP bill would make big changes for individual taxpayers, and we now know the specifics.

My informed guess is that the vast majority of taxpayers would benefit.

However, there is always resistance to change, and some of the proposals will fall by the wayside.

I would not be surprised to see the deductions for medical expenses and personal casualty losses restored, and the estate and gift tax changes made less-generous.

Meanwhile, stay tuned for our digest of the proposed business tax changes.
<snip>
 
Revenue always climbs but Reagan's revenue as a % of GDP was actually a few points lower than under a high tax policy under Bill Clinton. Reagan also doubled the deficit and had to raise taxes when revenue didn't match expectations.

Sorry man, you believe in lies. I got my facts straight you should start here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaganomics

Sorry man, before I can take you even the least bit seriously, you will have to do better then wikipedia, where the text is editble by the reader.
 
you just voted to increase your taxes

more than likely. also, in a couple years, we'll be talking about how Medicare and Social Security just can't be paid for anymore, so they'll have to be radically changed. "radically changed" will mean programs that you have paid into your whole life will be basically gutted. they have lusted after this for years, and now they have an excuse to do it.

looks like they're also repealing the ACA mandate as part of the bill. who do you think is going to make up the cost for that? think that the insurance companies are just going to eat the cost of all of those healthy people dropping their insurance? think that the hospitals are going to absorb the costs when those newly uninsured people actually need care? nope. it will be you and me paying higher premiums and more for our own care to make up for it.

save up that piddly, temporary tax cut, folks. you're going to need it.
 
There are tens of millions of people in our country who would be DELIGHTED to see that happen.
So why are the ramming this through without debate and such? It was like a mad dash, no one could critique it entirely because it wasn't even done until hours before the signed it. Remember with all the complaints about Obamacare, it went through multiple committees for debate and available to Republicans throughout.

This isn't just partisan, it's essentially bypassing even a discussion and full critique that would come from display their final product for everyone to examine.

You know why...
 
Again, reality-denying nonsense.

1.) The earned tax income credit is a way to deduct taxes, there is no universal basic income in the US, which is what you actually just said was happening. It isn't, therefore you're just wrong on this point.

2.) Corporate taxes just got slashed by 15% and income taxes at the highest brackets just got massive decreases. Even if a few minor removals of tax write-offs will not compensate the fact that the rich will shave trillions of dollars off of their collective taxes. It's just a stone cold fact, dude, read literally any report on what this tax bill will do. Here's a nice summary.

3.) We know this is the case. Republicans admitted that they had no choice but to either pass this bill or their mega-rich donors would refuse to fund them. They didn't demand this after putting billions into 2016 elections so they could pay more. So stop pretending either of us are stupid enough to think this. We both know this is bull****.

Either you are uninformed or just not telling the truth.

Just Google what the earned income tax credit is.

Corporate taxes are being adjusted to be competitive with the rest of the developed world. Perhaps corporations, not just U.S. based ones will want to have their factories closer to the world's largest consumer market. Never know if we don't try.

The last point is not even worth debating. BOTH major parties work for their donor class, not the average American.

Again blanket statements about people making X dollars and how they will be impacted is pretty silly. Most people understand that. Not even worth debating.
 
Oh yeah, a bunch of my friends make way more than me, but I make about half of what you make.

Well, I'm sorry.

The good news is, you'll probably avoid paying much in Federal Tax next year.:thumbs:
 
Sorry man, before I can take you even the least bit seriously, you will have to do better then wikipedia, where the text is editble by the reader.

Dodge noted.
 
So why are the ramming this through without debate and such? It was like a mad dash, no one could critique it entirely because it wasn't even done until hours before the signed it. Remember with all the complaints about Obamacare, it went through multiple committees for debate and available to Republicans throughout.

This isn't just partisan, it's essentially bypassing even a discussion and full critique that would come from display their final product for everyone to examine.

You know why...
and most of it doesn't go into effect until after the next election.

But, if you can't trust the Trump administration, who can you trust?

(yes, sarcasm, definitely sarcasm, just in case you were wondering)
 
If you voted for Trump (or a Republican congressional member) and your household makes less than 70,000 dollars a year, I just want you to understand that you just voted to increase your taxes.

Or rather, in your name, your congress members just voted for it, and Trump will sign it. I just want you to understand that your president candidate lied to you when he told you cared about you, he lied to you when he said he understood your problems, and he lied to you when he told you he wasn't part of the establishment. It's not a secret on this forum that I don't like Democrats, but the Trump tax cuts will cut trillions from Medicare/Medicaid (something you paid into but will see much, much less of now), it will make it exponentially harder for your children to get a good education and now unless you are personally very wealthy, your children will never get access to higher education, especially in good industries right now like science and technology. And within a decade or sooner, it will increase your taxes, just so that rich people can have theirs lowered.

Trump isn't a part of the media establishment, but the Republican party bow down and kiss the feet of their rich lords. In Trump's case though, he just stands to make hundreds of millions of dollars, at your expense, personally, so he doesn't even need donors to influence his decisions. Trump is a rich lord who wants to see you hovel before him without dignity. Everything for him and his friends, and nothing for you. That's what Trump represents, that's what Trump cares about.

A slight increase on a fatter paycheck is not all that bad.
 
Dodge noted.

No dodge. I am just asking you to use a real grown up source. Wikipedia is editable by the reader. That makes it more or less nothing but a blog. if anything, your use of wikipedia is the dodge.
 
I have no idea how this will affect others today or in the future.

Due to the lack of reliability in any news source you care to mention, I like to test thing on verifiable level.

It's a sad statement on the quality of our media that none of it is trustworthy.

That just about rounds it up.
 
Trickledown economics didn't work for the past 40 years. Therefore taking the most extreme, unadulterated neoliberal vision of trickledown will not suddenly make trickledown neoliberalism work. Or if it will, you need a serious goddamn argument for why 10x'ing down on failed economic policy will work.

Oh? Then you didn't pay attention. Enormous amounts of income generation have "trickled down", if that is the term you want to use. And you know that. It just went, where you don't want it to be.
 
save up that piddly, temporary tax cut, folks. you're going to need it.

This message was brought to us by the DNC headquarters. Thanks. Meanwhile, Social Security should be gutted and ripped apart. It was a ponzi scheme from the very beginning. I've been saying for a long time that Americans have been getting shielded from the costs of healthcare. While it's true that the GOP offered nothing at all, the Dems offered nothing but smoke and mirrors along with hundreds of billions of dollars in government handouts.
 
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