Donald Trump just suggested the FBI, Democrats and Russia might all be co-conspirators

haymarket said:

I dearly hope your evaluation is correct.

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It's me...it usually is.

This country has gone through far worse political times and Trump is nowhere near (as of now) the worst of our presidents. This is just nowism. Look to Andrew Johnson, Grant, Harding, Hoover, or Nixon for such a thing. Certainly, he must be the most embarrassing, but not the worst. You actually have to accomplish something to get on that list.

What we are witnessing right now is a mood that the GOP created, with great assistance from Fox news, over the course of sixteen years. And the free flow of information every where we turn has exacerbated this. Supporting Bush at all costs, while Liberals/Democrats attacked Bush at all costs left both sides supporting and criticizing matters quite ignorantly. Under Obama, the GOP and Fox doubled down and viciously attacked Obama for daring to breathe oxygen as Liberals/Democrats (like Pelosi) behaved obnoxiously and arrogantly.

Now we see the result of radicalizing half the country into hatred as Trump stole the thunder through hate rhetoric and a mean spirited campaign. But we also see now a great number of "supporters," who couldn't see straight last year when the GOP was begging them to abandon Trump, steadily grow quieter and quieter.

And by the way...the GOP pushed Grant aside after his first four highly corrupt years and nominated Hayes instead. If the Democrats put somebody up who actually has something to offer the next time, I don't see the already enthused and disappointed GOP giving Trump an endorsement. He will have lost most his ignorant base by then anyway.

MSgt said:

...
What we are witnessing right now is a mood that the GOP created, with great assistance from Fox news, over the course of sixteen years. ...

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I saw it starting more than 10 years before that, when Rush Limbaugh started broadcasting in San Diego. I listened to him a lot, mostly at work where a co-worker always had him on.
I thought he was funny and enjoyed the show, although I'm a lefty.
But my Dad, and many others of the right, took him seriously.
I'm mainly talking about this 'no-compromise' theory from Rush, and the general lack of intellectualism.
I had always considered my Dad an intellectual before Rush. Before that we had conservative columnists in the LATimes and the San Diego U-T to argue about, who were all intellectuals, even James Buchannan.

CletusWilbury said:

I saw it starting more than 10 years before that, when Rush Limbaugh started broadcasting in San Diego. I listened to him a lot, mostly at work where a co-worker always had him on.
I thought he was funny and enjoyed the show, although I'm a lefty.
But my Dad, and many others of the right, took him seriously.
I'm mainly talking about this 'no-compromise' theory from Rush, and the general lack of intellectualism.
I had always considered my Dad an intellectual before Rush. Before that we had conservative columnists in the LATimes and the San Diego U-T to argue about, who were all intellectuals, even James Buchannan.

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I saw the 1990s as just a petty back and forth during a period when the U.S. was having trouble defining itself and our leaders couldn't even come up with a term to define the era other than "Post" Cold War. The period between 11/9 (Berlin Wall fall) and 9/11 saw the U.S. experiencing an internal identity crisis.

9/11 pretty much drove people to harden and we have been clinched fisted ever since.

MSgt said:

It's me...it usually is.

This country has gone through far worse political times and Trump is nowhere near (as of now) the worst of our presidents. This is just nowism. Look to Andrew Johnson, Grant, Harding, Hoover, or Nixon for such a thing. Certainly, he must be the most embarrassing, but not the worst. You actually have to accomplish something to get on that list.

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Lets talk about that list for a moment.

Andrew Johnson certainly misread the mood of the nation when he took over from Lincoln and allowed his Southern ties to overrule taking strong action that he may have pursued. What is sad is that Johnson was in the position that Lincoln placed him in - a Democrat and a Southerner who just might have untied the nation.... but that was not to be.

Grant was one of the most popular presidents we ever had but was hopelessly out of his league.

I think Harding is the closest to Trump in that he was a schemer from his youth who wanted to get ahead by any means necessary and surrounded himself with all the wrong people instead of the right people who truly could have elevated him beyond his lowly character.

Nixon is a really strange page in history because the man was truly brilliant in some areas like his China initiative and he did oversee many good domestic programs swell. But like Harding, his own deeply flawed character and personal insecurities won out in the end and he betrayed all the good he did.

I think Trump is by far the worst President in history at this point in any of their terms. He is woefully inept, incompetent, lacks the intellectual ability to do the job and has really no interest in learning to do the job the right way. On top of all that he is mentally damaged as an extreme narcissist who sees all people as either being for or against him and if you are against him then he wants nothing to do with you at all and will crush you if he can.

And by the way...the GOP pushed Grant aside after his first four highly corrupt years and nominated Hayes instead. If the Democrats put somebody up who actually has something to offer the next time, I don't see the already enthused and disappointed GOP giving Trump an endorsement. He will have lost most his ignorant base by then anyway.

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The GOP has a real problem and it goes back to the tea party invasion which they attempted to use for their own purposes - and seemingly did until one of the tea factions own turned the tables and took over the GOP. So the GOP made a deal with the devil and now the stink of sulphur is rich in their nose and mouth and threatens to poison them. I always thought Trump would be the enema the Republican Party needed to rid itself of the tea party right wingers - but I thought that would happen through is loss last year. I was wrong.

So maybe the end will be the same but it will just take a bit longer and the path is far more winding and convoluted that otherwise I wished it was.

haymarket said:

I think Trump is by far the worst President in history at this point in any of their terms. He is woefully inept, incompetent, lacks the intellectual ability to do the job and has really no interest in learning to do the job the right way. On top of all that he is mentally damaged as an extreme narcissist who sees all people as either being for or against him and if you are against him then he wants nothing to do with you at all and will crush you if he can.

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But what has he actually done? He has really done nothing. No corruption. No wars. No seedy sexual exploits. He's just an immature buffoon who is still playing celebrity through his sad Twitter world. I think "useless idiot" is pretty much the sum of what I have to say about him right now.

haymarket said:

The GOP has a real problem and it goes back to the tea party invasion...

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Yeah...that was definitely a defining moment. It still bothers me that McCain entertained Sara Palin ("America's sweetheart"). The Right is definitely going through an identity crisis when eight years later they cheer for a man who denigrated military service and females.

Oreo said:

It never stops--:lol:


On Trump dossier, the President just suggested the FBI, Democrats and Russia might all be co-conspirators - CNNPolitics

As many know already FUSION GPS was hired by Jeb Bush to originally do opposition research on Trump. Fusion then hired a retired M1-6 agent Christopher Steele--who has years of experience spying on Russia. When Bush dropped out of the race, Democrats picked it up for awhile, then dropped it. Then Christopher Steele thought the Dossier file was serious enough that he gave it to John McCain and McCain delivered it to Obama. Shortly thereafter, Obama ordered all Russian diplomats out of this country and ordered the Russian investigation.

Fusion GPS had a closed door hearing with the Senate Intelligence committee that lasted for 7 hours, and Christopher Steele has already been interviewed by Robert Mueller.
Fusion GPS co-founder meets with congressional investigators - POLITICO
Mueller's team met with Russia dossier author - CNNPolitics

There are things in the Dossier file have been verified by U.S. Intelligence agencies.
US investigators corroborate some aspects of the Russia dossier - CNNPolitics

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...p-dossier-author-real-life-james-bond-n706376

What the Trump campaign never figured out is that they were being watched and monitored by several foreign intelligence agencies since 2015.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia

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You know the president is guilty when he tries to poison the FBI's well.

MSgt said:

...
9/11 pretty much drove people to harden and we have been clinched fisted ever since.

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Excellent point. More than a few friends were politically indifferent before then, and wham! They started paying more attention.

MSgt said:

.... It still bothers me that McCain entertained Sara Palin ("America's sweetheart"). ..

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She was a Rush Limbaugh like darling of the anti-intellectuals. My Dad loved her.

CletusWilbury said:

Excellent point. More than a few friends were politically indifferent before then, and wham! They started paying more attention.

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Yeah, people were angry. They were confused about what happened and looked for answers anywhere they could. Plenty simply fell within their loyalties to political parties and welcomed whatever they were told, while others gravitated towards whatever would sooth that need to make somebody pay. A lot of political ill will has been built on that.

All they have to do is read three books (in this order) to clear their minds, gain perspective, and get politically healthy again...

1. Coll, Steve. Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, From the Soviet Invasion to September 10,2001. 2004.

2. Chollet, Derek & James Goldgeier. America Between the Wars: From 11/9 to 9/11, The Misunderstood Years Between the Berlin Wall and the Start of the War on Terror. 2008.

3. Wright, Lawrence. The Looming Tower: Al-Queda and the Road to 9/11. 2007. (Pulitzer Prize)

The average reader will find that much is to blame and this game of Lib versus Con is foolish, unproductive, and down right un-American.

CletusWilbury said:

She was a Rush Limbaugh like darling of the anti-intellectuals. My Dad loved her.

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So did my parents. They also loved Trump. They don't say much about it these days.

MSgt said:

...
All they have to do is read three books (in this order) to clear their minds, gain perspective, and get politically healthy again...

1. Coll, Steve. Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, From the Soviet Invasion to September 10,2001. 2004.

2. Chollet, Derek & James Goldgeier. America Between the Wars: From 11/9 to 9/11, The Misunderstood Years Between the Berlin Wall and the Start of the War on Terror. 2008.

3. Wright, Lawrence. The Looming Tower: Al-Queda and the Road to 9/11. 2007. (Pulitzer Prize)

The average reader will find that much is to blame and this game of Lib versus Con is foolish, unproductive, and down right un-American.

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I haven't read those books, but the authors sound like intellectuals. Why would I read them? (sarcasm)
Have you read any of Bill O'Reilly's history books? His co-author is an intellectual, I think.
I haven't read them, a few reviews, some people seem to like them.

MSgt said:

But what has he actually done? He has really done nothing. No corruption. No wars. No seedy sexual exploits. He's just an immature buffoon who is still playing celebrity through his sad Twitter world. I think "useless idiot" is pretty much the sum of what I have to say about him right now.




Yeah...that was definitely a defining moment. It still bothers me that McCain entertained Sara Palin ("America's sweetheart"). The Right is definitely going through an identity crisis when eight years later they cheer for a man who denigrated military service and females.

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I was born in 49 and came of age during the Viet Nam era. They were the bad old days when the nation was terribly divided over the war ... over LBJ ... over Nixon ... over Watergate ... and on top of all that was the changing culture and the whole flower power thing. People were divided and we were not one people. They truly were the bad old days.

Then we seemed to put Watergate behind us and slowly the nation healed and we returned to a normalcy of a kind where things were still not perfect, but they were a great deal better than in these bad old days of the late Sixties and early Seventies.

Trump has returned us to those days of strong division simply through the force of his own being. He has tarnished our governmental institutions as it he defecated on them and smeared the filth in with his boot heel. And I fear the worst is yet to come as presents the single greatest threat to this nation and the world in terms of war and peace than anything we have seen in five decades.

MSgt said:

So did my parents. They also loved Trump. They don't say much about it these days.

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Politics have been banned in our larger family get togethers.
I would have never tolerated that in my younger years.

CletusWilbury said:

I haven't read those books, but the authors sound like intellectuals. Why would I read them? (sarcasm)
Have you read any of Bill O'Reilly's history books? His co-author is an intellectual, I think.
I haven't read them, a few reviews, some people seem to like them.

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Nah. His aren't really the type I would read. The author is a very important thing to consider when reading about history. For example, I would push Chomsky away in regards to the Cold War because he leans far too Left and avoids context. I would caution Gaddis because he leans more right than he should and avoids certain truths. I would recommend Westad, who is even keeled and avoids the political lean.

haymarket said:

Trump has returned us to those days of strong division simply through the force of his own being.

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Yeah, but Trump is a symptom and merely spewed the same garbage the GOP had been glorifying. "Hate Obama, hate Obama, hate Liberals, hate Obama, hate Obama...oh...but don't vote for Trump?" They don't get to do that.

MSgt said:

It's me...it usually is.

This country has gone through far worse political times and Trump is nowhere near (as of now) the worst of our presidents. This is just nowism. Look to Andrew Johnson, Grant, Harding, Hoover, or Nixon for such a thing. Certainly, he must be the most embarrassing, but not the worst. You actually have to accomplish something to get on that list.

What we are witnessing right now is a mood that the GOP created, with great assistance from Fox news, over the course of sixteen years. And the free flow of information every where we turn has exacerbated this. Supporting Bush at all costs, while Liberals/Democrats attacked Bush at all costs left both sides supporting and criticizing matters quite ignorantly. Under Obama, the GOP and Fox doubled down and viciously attacked Obama for daring to breathe oxygen as Liberals/Democrats (like Pelosi) behaved obnoxiously and arrogantly.

Now we see the result of radicalizing half the country into hatred as Trump stole the thunder through hate rhetoric and a mean spirited campaign. But we also see now a great number of "supporters," who couldn't see straight last year when the GOP was begging them to abandon Trump, steadily grow quieter and quieter.

And by the way...the GOP pushed Grant aside after his first four highly corrupt years and nominated Hayes instead. If the Democrats put somebody up who actually has something to offer the next time, I don't see the already enthused and disappointed GOP giving Trump an endorsement. He will have lost most his ignorant base by then anyway.

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I want to see McCain and Michael Obama run together on a bull moose ticket.

I know it sounds crazy but Donald trump is our president for Christmas sake.

Weird **** happens...

MSgt said:

Yeah, but Trump is a symptom and merely spewed the same garbage the GOP had been glorifying. "Hate Obama, hate Obama, hate Liberals, hate Obama, hate Obama...oh...but don't vote for Trump?" They don't get to do that.

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You have a point - but Trump is in office and we have to deal with him. He is poisoning the political system and our very institutions of government as no person I have ever seen in all of my lifetime. He lacks respect for the office and for government itself. He only cares about himself and seems willing to be hated by a majority of the nation as long as his base stays loyal and he has no trouble lying constantly to them.

And to think he has accomplished all this in just less than a year in office. The mind boggles in dreaded anticipation of what horrors the man is capable of should he complete his term and subject us to three more years of this insanity.

I have not cared for several presidents in my lifetime - LBJ - Nixon - Reagan - Bush2 - but at no time did I ever feel they were more of a threat to America than our actual enemies around the world are. At no time did I ever feel their mental state was one of illness and they were not capable of doing the job. At no time did I ever feel that they were completely and totally illegitimate as a national leader and their very presence in the office was raping our democratic republic.

I feel all of those things with Trump.

Let's just pretend for a second that this BS story has any legs, just remember that trump supported the Clintons and did business in Russia at the time.

HMMMM...

haymarket said:

You have a point - but Trump is in office and we have to deal with him. He is poisoning the political system and our very institutions of government as no person I have ever seen in all of my lifetime. He lacks respect for the office and for government itself. He only cares about himself and seems willing to be hated by a majority of the nation as long as his base stays loyal and he has no trouble lying constantly to them.

And to think he has accomplished all this in just less than a year in office. The mind boggles in dreaded anticipation of what horrors the man is capable of should he complete his term and subject us to three more years of this insanity.

I have not cared for several presidents in my lifetime - LBJ - Nixon - Reagan - Bush2 - but at no time did I ever feel they were more of a threat to America than our actual enemies around the world are. At no time did I ever feel their mental state was one of illness and they were not capable of doing the job. At no time did I ever feel that they were completely and totally illegitimate as a national leader and their very presence in the office was raping our democratic republic.

I feel all of those things with Trump.

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Well stated!

I was going to give you a thumbs up, but that deserved personal congratulations!

MSgt said:

Nah. His aren't really the type I would read. The author is a very important thing to consider when reading about history. For example, I would push Chomsky away in regards to the Cold War because he leans far too Left and avoids context. I would caution Gaddis because he leans more right than he should and avoids certain truths. I would recommend Westad, who is even keeled and avoids the political lean.

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I see you've added Gaddis and Westad who I don't know to the list. Are they all USAers?

GDViking said:

I want to see McCain and Michael Obama run together on a bull moose ticket.

I know it sounds crazy but Donald trump is our president for Christmas sake.

Weird **** happens...

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Speaking of...

I believe the average American's ignorance can be seen when one looks at the circumstances of the Great Recession. Glass-Steagall went into affect after the Great Depression and forced banks to be more responsible with people's money. It separated commercial and investment banking and held our economy on a stable platform (despite the routine ups and downs that are always in an economy). Republicans and Democrats repealed Glass-Steagall in 1999 with Clinton's signature. Banks were free to do whatever again. We entered into the Great Recession in 2007 and began bailing out banks and people began losing their houses. Dodd-Frank was Washington's way of introducing anything. Elizabeth Warren (D) and McCain (R) recognized the problem and reintroducing legislation to revive the Glass-Steagall Act in 2015. The vast majority of Democrats and Republicans scoffed at them.

I would like to see a McCain/Warren ticket. Instead of this, the masses look towards a lame duck in Hillary Clinton and a silver-spooned buffoon in Trump.

CletusWilbury said:

I see you've added Gaddis and Westad who I don't know to the list. Are they all USAers?

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Yeah. They are American Cold War historians and considered among the core elite.

- Gaddis, John Lewis. The Cold War: A New History. 2005.
- Westad, Odd Arne. The Global Cold War. 2007. (Bancroft Prize)

As I stated though, Gaddis leans to the right in his writing. He actually makes an error in regards to Iran, but Cold War historians tend to cover a lot of ground so sometimes the details get sacrificed, especially if you present with a Left or Right lean. It's just too much wide history to cover in a small space so some shortened information implies untruths (and in acordance to the Right or Left lean).

Westad all the way. I would read A Failed Empire by Vladislav Zubok with it. He is a Russian Cold War historian and provides an even keel perspective from the Soviet side. It's a fascinating read. So much of the Soviet policy was based on fear. Pairing those two books together provide a complete package.

GDViking said:

Well stated!

I was going to give you a thumbs up, but that deserved personal congratulations!

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Thank you very much.

Absentglare said:

You know the president is guilty when he tries to poison the FBI's well.

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There has never been a President in this nation's history that was so naive and frankly stupid enough to make enemies out of the 3 most powerful agencies in this country. The media, our intelligence agencies, and the judicial branch of government.

The more he calls the media FAKE news, the more they will investigate, write & report. The more he denies the intelligence coming out of the FBI, CIA and the Department of Homeland Security, the more he implicates himself into a cover-up and the deeper they will dig. The more he lashes out of the Judicial branch--and now the FBI--the more they will leak to the media.

Trump is definitely not the sharpest knife in the drawer. I really don't think the elevator makes it to the top floor.
https://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/a-...rder-that-makes-him-a-dangerous-world-leader/

MSgt said:

Yeah. They are American Cold War historians and considered among the core elite.

- Gaddis, John Lewis. The Cold War: A New History. 2005.
- Westad, Odd Arne. The Global Cold War. 2007. (Bancroft Prize)

As I stated though, Gaddis leans to the right in his writing. He actually makes an error in regards to Iran, but Cold War historians tend to cover a lot of ground so sometimes the details get sacrificed, especially if you present with a Left or Right lean. It's just too much wide history to cover in a small space so some shortened information implies untruths (and in acordance to the Right or Left lean).

Westad all the way. I would read A Failed Empire by Vladislav Zubok with it. He is a Russian Cold War historian and provides an even keel perspective from the Soviet side. It's a fascinating read. So much of the Soviet policy was based on fear. Pairing those two books together provide a complete package.

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The only book I have read on this topic is The Main Enemy: The Inside Story of the CIA's Final Showdown with the KGB by Milton Bearden, James Risen 2004

I've been reading biographies of earlier times.