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Trump's Obamacare EO to cost almost 200 billion

Rogue Valley said:
With the latest Trump ACA sabotage, insurers have now upped the 2018 premiums in Mississippi by a whopping 45%.

Trumpcare is on the way folks.
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Good. Then maybe people will get a better grasp of the expense involved with health insurance and make more informed decisions. The only thing that the U.S. really needed was fewer mandated benefits and a way to allow people to enroll with pre-existing conditions. The finagling with other issues is why the ACA turned into an unwieldy mess.
 
reinoe said:
The payments were never legal. Only someone with TDS would say not paying private insurance companies billions of dollars is costing money.
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LOL, what we save in not paying private insurance companies the CSR payments we lose, plus $200B, in paying for more tax credits to offset higher premiums that will go to the same private insurance companies, which those private insurers will charge because we ended the CSR payments.

So we took money out of the left pocket of the private insurers, then put what we took out of the left pocket right back into their right pocket, PLUS $200B more! Whee! Thanks Trump!
 
Greenbeard said:
Group coverage costs more than exchange coverage. Blowing up the exchanges to try and move everyone into group plans is idiotic.
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lol no they don't. You're usually way more on the ball than this.
 
JasperL said:
LOL, what we save in not paying private insurance companies the CSR payments we lose, plus $200B, in paying for more tax credits to offset higher premiums that will go to the same private insurance companies, which those private insurers will charge because we ended the CSR payments.

So we took money out of the left pocket of the private insurers, then put what we took out of the left pocket right back into their right pocket, PLUS $200B more! Whee! Thanks Trump!
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No. What it means is that the insurance companies will no longer be artificially keeping premiums low because they've been getting billions of dollars in bailouts. I'm glad Trump is doing it.
 
reinoe said:
Good. Then maybe people will get a better grasp of the expense involved with health insurance and make more informed decisions. The only thing that the U.S. really needed was fewer mandated benefits and a way to allow people to enroll with pre-existing conditions. The finagling with other issues is why the ACA turned into an unwieldy mess.
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LOL, once again, someone on the right wing is just hand waving the HUUUGGGEE issue with healthcare - how to deal with old and sick people. If you figure that out, you've solved the puzzle, but for all kinds of known reasons solving that bolded problem is immensely difficult. The GOP have lied for nearly a decade now that it's an easy fix, but we see now that they WERE lying (of course) and they are finding out how hard it is to do in reality, as opposed to talking points.
 
Greenbeard said:
Trump has been paying the subsidies. Every month for the past nine months.

And in that time he hasn't sought an appropriation, nor has Congress provided one. Literally nothing has substantively changed between next month and this month that would justify this abrupt action.

Oh, except open enrollment beginning. Never miss a chance to screw people! It's the Trump way.
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Ok, so if you get pulled over for a policeman for speeding you gonna go to court and argue you've been speeding every day for the last year and thus it's not illegal? good luck with that.

so he did something illegal for 9 months, now he's in compliance with the law.
 
reinoe said:
No. What it means is that the insurance companies will no longer be artificially keeping premiums low because they've been getting billions of dollars in bailouts. I'm glad Trump is doing it.
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You just said the issue is how to allow people to enroll with pre-existing conditions. One way is guaranteed issue, with subsidies on the low end. Now you're against the subsidies of individuals on the low end. Well, if the poor aren't subsidized, how do we get them insurance? That's the problem - you guys oppose every step Obama and the Democrats took, but have no ideas of how to do it BETTER.

And what this really does is force people NOT getting subsidies on the exchanges for the copayment reductions provided to people on the lower end. The poor don't care because their premiums and OOP costs are capped by law. So it's a direct transfer from the middle and upper middle class on the exchanges to the poor. Is that who you want to hurt - those NOT getting taxpayer subsidies? Seems odd if that's the case.
 
Vern said:
oh vance. still clinging to conservative narratives. If Obamacare was "*****ed" 7 years ago, how come trump has to sabotage it. and that's on top of the republican sabotage. See, when you try to see the world only through the delusional prism of conservative narratives you always going to look foolish. And who's been "wrecked" by Obamacare. 20 million people are enjoying health insurance. All of America is enjoying a lower deficit and higher quality care. America is also enjoying the surge in small busineseses and lower health care inflation.
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What exactly is Trump doing to 'sabotage' it? What we KNOW is that the ACA is such a horrific piece of **** that even though premiums and deductibles are obscene and make insurance unworkable for many, the government STILL has to dump billions into it just to keep it afloat.

And you like that piece of ****? No...wait. You dont. You think the ACA is a piece of **** and they should have held out for Universal Health Care but in the name of blind partisanship you are h0pnor bound to eat ****, chew, and swallow.

Seriously...do you even know what the **** you are talking about? EVER?
 
Greenbeard said:
Group coverage costs more than exchange coverage. Blowing up the exchanges to try and move everyone into group plans is idiotic.
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Yeah...tell that to the people who's premiums increased in double and triple digits over the last 4 years.

At least now they have choices.
 
JasperL said:
And I'd perhaps support Trump if Trump had a plan in the wings that improves on the ACA, but he doesn't, and the GOP don't. There is no plan at all that's an alternative to ACA. And so far what the GOP proposed would make things FAR worse overall, which is why their efforts so far were slightly less popular than STDs and roaches.

It's tough to think of an equivalent. Maybe given Trump's former job, like blowing up a building with millions of existing inhabitants and promising them that he hopes in a year or two or three maybe he'll get around to building a new one, but in the meantime they're on the hook for their old rent plus alternative arrangements. BRILLIANT!
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There IS no improving Obamacare. Any "plan in the wings" would only end up further restricting choice and costing the taxpayer more money. Besides, even the Democrats had nothing to improve Obamacare...not even anything that would cost taxpayers more money.

Trump did what the Congressional GOP Elites wouldn't do: Deliver the death blow to the worst legislation the Democrats every shoved down the people's throat.
 
VanceMack said:
What exactly is Trump doing to 'sabotage' it? What we KNOW is that the ACA is such a horrific piece of **** that even though premiums and deductibles are obscene and make insurance unworkable for many, the government STILL has to dump billions into it just to keep it afloat.

And you like that piece of ****? No...wait. You dont. You think the ACA is a piece of **** and they should have held out for Universal Health Care but in the name of blind partisanship you are h0pnor bound to eat ****, chew, and swallow.

Seriously...do you even know what the **** you are talking about? EVER?
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wow, what a deflecting, delusional and silly rant. But then you are an obedient conservative so there will always be "fireworks" when a narrative a conservative clings to blows up in his face. Its just mind boggling that you're in a thread that is documenting Trump causing rates to skyrocket and asking "wah wah what is trump doing to sabotage it". Anyhoo, I understand your anger. You obediently railed against EO's and the deficit and now your dear leader is signing EO's and increasing the deficit as well as sabotaging Obamacare. As long as you obediently believe conservative narratives you will continue to look foolish.
 
VanceMack said:
What exactly is Trump doing to 'sabotage' it? What we KNOW is that the ACA is such a horrific piece of **** that even though premiums and deductibles are obscene and make insurance unworkable for many, the government STILL has to dump billions into it just to keep it afloat.

And you like that piece of ****? No...wait. You dont. You think the ACA is a piece of **** and they should have held out for Universal Health Care but in the name of blind partisanship you are h0pnor bound to eat ****, chew, and swallow.

Seriously...do you even know what the **** you are talking about? EVER?
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Bannon seems to know, he probably helped plan it, and he said Trump is removing the CSR payments precisely to blow up the exchanges used by the poor.

Bannon: Trump Ended Insurer Subsidies To ‘Blow Up’ Obamacare – Talking Points Memo
 
JasperL said:
LOL, once again, someone on the right wing is just hand waving the HUUUGGGEE issue with healthcare - how to deal with old and sick people. If you figure that out, you've solved the puzzle, but for all kinds of known reasons solving that bolded problem is immensely difficult. The GOP have lied for nearly a decade now that it's an easy fix, but we see now that they WERE lying (of course) and they are finding out how hard it is to do in reality, as opposed to talking points.
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There are two solutions that will work but the government is too incompetent to implement either.

Going back to how things were before except with no pre-existing condition exclusions preventing people from enrolling.

Or a type of "medicare for all". Our government is too inept to do either of these things.

The government can't be trusted to do either.
 
Vern said:
oooooo SD, I see you're still cherry picking the promises Trump made. He didn't promise to sabotage Obamacare and drive up the prices. He promised something better. This is not better.
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He promised that he'd work to repeal and replace Obamacare from Day 1. He attempted to do just that and the Congress failed to put it on his desk. He's not putting it back in their laps. The PPACA was a 2700+ page mess from the time that it was passed. For too much of the law was at the discretion of the administration. What it seems that the Democrats forgot was that they might not always be in control.
 
JasperL said:
The poor don't care because their premiums and OOP costs are capped by law. So it's a direct transfer from the middle and upper middle class on the exchanges to the poor. Is that who you want to hurt - those NOT getting taxpayer subsidies?
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It's typical that liberals care more about the wealthy 1%'ers than the middle-class and poor. So much snuggling and canoodling with wealthy bankers have blinded you to the needs of the people who need the most help. That's why you lost the election. Funny how you're acknowledging that it's the "right-wingers" who want to help the ones who need help and getting outraged over that.

p.s. I'm not even a right-wingers, I can just recognize that the PPACA was a pile of ****.
 
reinoe said:
p.s. I'm not even a right-wingers, I can just recognize that the PPACA was a pile of ****.
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Lol. Changing your lean to Centrist never fooled anyone and it still doesn't. You were always a loyal Trumper.
 
Mycroft said:
There IS no improving Obamacare. Any "plan in the wings" would only end up further restricting choice and costing the taxpayer more money. Besides, even the Democrats had nothing to improve Obamacare...not even anything that would cost taxpayers more money.

Trump did what the Congressional GOP Elites wouldn't do: Deliver the death blow to the worst legislation the Democrats every shoved down the people's throat.
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Great, so we're back to the pre-ACA system, where the sick were just SOL, all the trends doing the wrong direction, etc. Sounds good. Why did the GOP run on "replace" then, instead of "we're just going to blow it all up!" That latter would have been honest according to you. Seems dishonest to me....
 
reinoe said:
There are two solutions that will work but the government is too incompetent to implement either.

Going back to how things were before except with no pre-existing condition exclusions preventing people from enrolling.
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If it was that easy, the GOP would have proposed and passed it by now. It's not that easy, which is why no one has proposed this plan that won't work.

Or a type of "medicare for all". Our government is too inept to do either of these things.

The government can't be trusted to do either.
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I'm all for that, but there are about 0 republicans who would support that, and for pretty good reasons probably. But, sure, if that comes up for a vote, I'll call and write my representatives to get them on board!
 
reinoe said:
It's typical that liberals care more about the wealthy 1%'ers than the middle-class and poor. So much snuggling and canoodling with wealthy bankers have blinded you to the needs of the people who need the most help. That's why you lost the election. Funny how you're acknowledging that it's the "right-wingers" who want to help the ones who need help and getting outraged over that.

p.s. I'm not even a right-wingers, I can just recognize that the PPACA was a pile of ****.
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No, what I'm pointing out is ending the CRS payments 1) does nothing to insurers - they just raised their rates by 20%, we've seen them do it, 2) doesn't hurt the poor because ACA caps their OOP including premiums, but 3) DOES really, really hurt those on the exchanges NOT getting subsidies.

I do NOT want to hurt hard working people who make too much for government subsidies, which is why I think ending the CRS payments was a vindictive, destructive, cruel act of sabotage that will harm those folks for no gain except blowing up the exchanges out of spite. It's unbelievable you're blaming the people who want to keep premiums LOW for those people instead of the GOP and Trump who are deliberately causing these people making too much for subsidies to pay 20% more in insurance premiums.
 
JasperL said:
No, what I'm pointing out is ending the CRS payments 1) does nothing to insurers - they just raised their rates by 20%, we've seen them do it, 2) doesn't hurt the poor because ACA caps their OOP including premiums, but 3) DOES really, really hurt those on the exchanges NOT getting subsidies.

I do NOT want to hurt hard working people who make too much for government subsidies, which is why I think ending the CRS payments was a vindictive, destructive, cruel act of sabotage that will harm those folks for no gain except blowing up the exchanges out of spite. It's unbelievable you're blaming the people who want to keep premiums LOW for those people instead of the GOP and Trump who are deliberately causing these people making too much for subsidies to pay 20% more in insurance premiums.
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The people who want to keep premiums low want to do so by bribing insurance companies. Insurance companies stay afloat through premiums bot government subsidies. The ACA was a dishonest attempt to circumvent risk and reward functions and hide the cost of insurance from the American people. Such dishonest measures were destined to blow up in the faces of the Washington establishment the moment an honest American entered the White House.
 
Rogue Valley said:
With the latest Trump ACA sabotage, insurers have now upped the 2018 premiums in Mississippi by a whopping 45%.

Trumpcare is on the way folks.
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That would indicate that they had been mispriced quite a bit.
 
JasperL said:
If it was that easy, the GOP would have proposed and passed it by now. It's not that easy, which is why no one has proposed this plan that won't work.



I'm all for that, but there are about 0 republicans who would support that, and for pretty good reasons probably. But, sure, if that comes up for a vote, I'll call and write my representatives to get them on board!
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I've repeatedly stated that the GOP are lazy ineffectual trash who need to be thrown out.
 
JasperL said:
Great, so we're back to the pre-ACA system, where the sick were just SOL, all the trends doing the wrong direction, etc. Sounds good. Why did the GOP run on "replace" then, instead of "we're just going to blow it all up!" That latter would have been honest according to you. Seems dishonest to me....
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The "GOP" who ran on "replace" were lying to their voters. Same with the ones who ran on repeal.

The only one who is keeping to his campaign promises is Trump.
 
Mycroft said:
Yeah...tell that to the people who's premiums increased in double and triple digits over the last 4 years.

At least now they have choices.
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What is this even supposed to mean? Exchange coverage is cheaper than group coverage. Even when Trump's done sabotaging it, it will likely still be cheaper. Large groups pay the most of anyone under our system.

When did the right abandon its supposed faith in markets? You want to take people out of markets (where premiums are lower) and put them into big bargaining units with top-down decision-making (where premiums are higher). The exact opposite of the direction we need to be going.
 
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