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Trump's Obamacare EO to cost almost 200 billion

Southern Dad said:
His timing was nothing short of genius. The insurance companies already signed on for this year so they are stuck.
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Uh, no.

Qualified Health Plan Certification Agreement and Privacy and Security Agreement Between Qualified Health Plan Issuer and the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services
CMS acknowledges that QHPI has developed its products for the FFE based on the assumption that APTCs and CSRs will be available to qualifying Enrollees. In the event that this assumption ceases to be valid during the term of this Agreement, CMS acknowledges that Issuer could have cause to terminate this Agreement subject to applicable state and federal law.
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iguanaman said:
I have told you before, the Dems are willing to "give up" shutting down the Govt. as long as the money for the CSR subsidies are in the budget along with anything else the Dems decide is a "must have".. It's time for a little payback. You don't seem to understand that Pelosi is holding the aces now.
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Give up shutting down the government? Pelosi isn't even holding deuces. The fact that the Democrats allow her to remain minority leader really speaks volumes.
 
Greenbeard said:
Just to be clear, this isn't the EO. This is his decision to cancel the CSR payments (which he has been publicly signaling he would do for political reasons since at least April). These two things came within 24 hours of each other and they have the same goal--blowing up the markets--but they are distinct. The EO doesn't actually change anything, though future regs could. The CSR decision has immediate impact. And indeed is already priced in to 2018 premiums. Hence the Trump Premium Spike.

Anyway, this a pretty obvious act of deliberate sabotage by a petulant man-child.

DMHmvbCXcAARlSK.jpg:large
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The CSR payments were illegal. The spikes thst you fretting about is the natural result of Obamacare.
Sorry to say.
 
Athanasius68 said:
The CSR payments were illegal. The spikes thst you fretting about is the natural result of Obamacare.
Sorry to say.
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Per Dear Leader today, there is no Obamacare.

“Obamacare is finished. It’s dead. It’s gone. You shouldn’t even mention it. It’s gone. There is no such thing as Obamacare anymore,” Trump insisted during a meeting with his Cabinet at the White House.
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He owns his premium spikes. Hard to blame Obamacare when there's no such thing anymore.
 
Vern said:
I don't mean to be a bother but this thread is not for conservatives to obediently post false narratives about Obamacare. You've done that for 8 years already and you still refuse to accept reality. I think you guys would greatly benefit from therapy but this thread about the complete lack of concern from the right about Trump using EO's and increasing the deficit. Can any of you explain or address this yet another obedient flip flop?
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Trump's EO here was to reverse an illegal situation created by Obama's EO.
I guess it blows a hole in the budget. But this is the kind of thing what conservatives warned about the libs about when they passed Obamacare.
 
Athanasius68 said:
This is Obamacare. The premuim spikes are the result if it being faithfully executed.
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You're contradicting Dear Leader? He's infallible. And we all know he has the best words and chooses them carefully.

He says Obamacare doesn't exist anymore. All that's left is whatever it is he's created here. He owns the consequences of his actions.
 
JasperL said:
Sure, if hurting the most people was Trump's goal, then a reckless, last minute decision designed to cause the most harm to the most innocent people was "genius."

Goodness, what is wrong with you guys?
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So now the argument is that Trump should continue to break the law, because the law, Obamacare, hurts people?
 
Mycroft said:
Obamacare will be dead and gone long before that decade goes by, so no...this will NOT cost the government almost $200 billion.
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Well now that your hero is on a path to ruin the Affordable Care Act you may as well stop calling it Obama care. It's a touch of irony that the health care the republicans tagged Obama with is the one that came out of their own think tank, The Heritage Foundation. Your killing your own baby. And now and for all time it's going to be called Trump Screwing over his own base. Nine out of the ten states that the Cost Sharing Subsidy effects are ones that voted for Trump. Way to shoot there Donald.:lol::lol::lol:
 
Rich123 said:
Well now that your hero is on a path to ruin the Affordable Care Act you may as well stop calling it Obama care. It's a touch of irony that the health care the republicans tagged Obama with is the one that came out of their own think tank, The Heritage Foundation. Your killing your own baby. And now and for all time it's going to be called Trump Screwing over his own base. Nine out of the ten states that the Cost Sharing Subsidy effects are ones that voted for Trump. Way to shoot there Donald.:lol::lol::lol:
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Blah, blah, blah. Back to "but that's a Republican plan" because you are butthurt over me calling it Obamacare.

Face it...until that abortion of a bill is dead and buried in the trash heap where it belongs, it'll ALWAYS be know as and spoken of as Obamacare.
 
Athanasius68 said:
Trump's EO here was to reverse an illegal situation created by Obama's EO.
I guess it blows a hole in the budget. But this is the kind of thing what conservatives warned about the libs about when they passed Obamacare.
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Well I see you're still satisfied with your hazy and wrong recollection of the facts. But your false beliefs don't change the facts that you and yours were instructed to rail about EOs and the deficit and you now have no problem with either. And fyi, you and yours warned us that Obamacare

had death panels
would kill jobs and the economy
50-100 million would lose insurance
only lowers the deficit because its 10 years of revenue and 6 years of benefits
hundreds of thousands of doctors would retire

to name a few of the nonstop lies your masters told you and obediently believed. And no, republicans never warned us that they would continually sabotage Obamacare driving up premiums and costs to the govt. Athan, this is a debate forum. What you're looking for is a conservative chatroom. There your hazy and wrong recollection of the facts would be praised.
 
Vern said:
So conservatives rail about Obama's EO's and literally foamed at the mouth about deficits the last 8 years. Forget how this is another example of republicans screwing over average Americans, where's the conservative outrage at EOs and increasing the deficit? Is there any issue conservatives cant obediently flip flop on. I would have said "Putin and russia" a year ago but the answer is "no, there is no issue conservatives wont obediently flip flop on". anyhoo

It will raise Obamacare premiums by an estimated 20 percent in 2018, as health plans have to charge more to make up the lost funds. By 2020, premiums would increase 25 percent due to this change.

The Congressional Budget Office estimates that this move will ultimately cost the government $194 billion over the next decade.


https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/13/16467910/trump-obamacare-politics-aca
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Is it OK for me to disagree with the CBO? If so I do. I think the EO will put obamacare out of business and will ultimately reduce the cost of health insurance. Now if we could reduce the cost of health services we would be on our way to a better situation.
 
Greenbeard said:
Just to be clear, this isn't the EO. This is his decision to cancel the CSR payments (which he has been publicly signaling he would do for political reasons since at least April). These two things came within 24 hours of each other and they have the same goal--blowing up the markets--but they are distinct. The EO doesn't actually change anything, though future regs could. The CSR decision has immediate impact. And indeed is already priced in to 2018 premiums. Hence the Trump Premium Spike.

Anyway, this a pretty obvious act of deliberate sabotage by a petulant man-child.

DMHmvbCXcAARlSK.jpg:large
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I agree. I think it is sabotage and, unfortunately, it is slow coming.
 
fmw said:
Is it OK for me to disagree with the CBO? If so I do. I think the EO will put obamacare out of business and will ultimately reduce the cost of health insurance. Now if we could reduce the cost of health services we would be on our way to a better situation.
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sure its okay to disagree with the CBO but "nuh uh" isn't really an argument. Hey remember when all conservatives obediently parroted "CBO lies, they only say what congress tells them to say." Sure "nuh uh" isn't quite the same but we know where you got your marching orders. And here's the problem with sabotaging the CSR payments. People who get subsidies will still pay the same amount. The subsidies will limit their costs to 10% of income. So it only screws over the people who get no subsidies. Oh and it screws over the tax payers by adding to the deficit. Hey, remember when your marching orders were to scream about deficits. I see you got new orders.
 
Vern said:
sure its okay to disagree with the CBO but "nuh uh" isn't really an argument. Hey remember when all conservatives obediently parroted "CBO lies, they only say what congress tells them to say." Sure "nuh uh" isn't quite the same but we know where you got your marching orders. And here's the problem with sabotaging the CSR payments. People who get subsidies will still pay the same amount. The subsidies will limit their costs to 10% of income. So it only screws over the people who get no subsidies. Oh and it screws over the tax payers by adding to the deficit. Hey, remember when your marching orders were to scream about deficits. I see you got new orders.
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They have an opinion and so do I. There are no marching orders. Only common sense. I don't like deficits and I hate government debt. That is the major reason I want government completely out of the health insurance business.
 
fmw said:
They have an opinion and so do I. There are no marching orders. Only common sense. I don't like deficits and I hate government debt. That is the major reason I want government completely out of the health insurance business.
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they have an professional opinion based knowledge and experience. You only have your obedient "nuh uh". To think your "nuh uh" is the same as a CBO opinion it beyond laughable. And look, you obediently hate deficits but seem to have no problem with them if it agrees with your obedient "Obamacare bad" narrative. But you oddly ignore that Obamacare reduces the deficit. And you ignore that the govt has a constitutional requirement to promote the general welfare. Besides making healthcare more affordable and accessible it is helping prevent an economic disaster. In 2001 NHE (National Health Expenditure) was 14% of GDP. In 2009, it was 17.3. wow, that's 3.4% of GDP jump as the number of people being insured delclined. In 2015 its 17.8 %. That's called slowing down healthcare as % of GDP as more people are covered. Thanks Obama

https://www.cms.gov/research-statis...enddata/nationalhealthaccountshistorical.html
 
fmw said:
They have an opinion and so do I. There are no marching orders. Only common sense. I don't like deficits and I hate government debt. That is the major reason I want government completely out of the health insurance business.
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Fmw, come on back so we can discuss how Obamacare lowers the deficit and slows down healthcare as a % of GDP. If you hate debt as much as you claim, then how come you don't support Obamacare?

Vern said:
In 2001 NHE (National Health Expenditure) was 14% of GDP. In 2009, it was 17.3. wow, that's 3.4% of GDP jump as the number of people being insured delclined. In 2015 its 17.8 %. That's called slowing down healthcare as % of GDP as more people are covered. Thanks Obama

https://www.cms.gov/research-statis...enddata/nationalhealthaccountshistorical.html
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Vern said:
Fmw, come on back so we can discuss how Obamacare lowers the deficit and slows down healthcare as a % of GDP. If you hate debt as much as you claim, then how come you don't support Obamacare?
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I hate anything that involves government running an insurance industry. You won't convince me of your premise. No need to bring it up.
 
fmw said:
I hate anything that involves government running an insurance industry. You won't convince me of your premise. No need to bring it up.
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So you hate the concept of "government running an insurance industry" more than debt and deficits. The problem is you have to assume the govt is running an insurance industry They regulate the insurance industry like they do a lot of things and we've had this discussion before. Can you at least admit that increasing the number of people with healthcare coverage, increasing the quality of care, lowering the deficit and slowing down healthcare inflation promotes the general welfare?
 
Vern said:
So you hate the concept of "government running an insurance industry" more than debt and deficits. The problem is you have to assume the govt is running an insurance industry They regulate the insurance industry like they do a lot of things and we've had this discussion before. Can you at least admit that increasing the number of people with healthcare coverage, increasing the quality of care, lowering the deficit and slowing down healthcare inflation promotes the general welfare?
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No. I think the opposite is true.
 
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