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I dislike liberal arrogance

C

CriticalThought

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This is one area I can agree with the populist right wing about and for which I hope against hope that the leftist and progressive movements can do some soul searching about in the coming months. The reason so many independent voters who fall in the working poor and middle class are fed up with liberals is the elitism and PC culture that has permeated the movement. Liberals used to calmly embrace the nuance and ambiguity of complex sociopolitical issues like race, religion, and civil rights but now many seem as dogmatic as the religious right and intolerant of views that do not perfectly coincide with their own. They are now often the people who sue bakers who won't make a cake for a gay wedding when they can just use another baker or call someone a "racist" because they support law enforcement over violent protesters.
 
Very astute observation.

Welcome aboard.
 
It's no more than the educated versus uneducated it's always been this way
 
Both liberals and conservatives often posit that some boogie man is responsible for the many ills present in society and both propose (bigger) federal government solutions. No matter whether the party for a bigger federal government or the party for a huge federal government is in charge at the moment the federal government grows in both power and cost.
 
I totally agree with that. There are many of those type of people on the Left, that are pretty dogmatic about their "progressive" views. And then you have all those incidents of conservative speakers at colleges being shut down because what they are saying happens to offend some overly-sensitive liberals.

And then you have ANTIFA and the violence they try to incite, and how they try to inconvenience others by blocking entrances to buildings, or even protesting in the middle of the road.
 
CriticalThought said:
This is one area I can agree with the populist right wing about and for which I hope against hope that the leftist and progressive movements can do some soul searching about in the coming months. The reason so many independent voters who fall in the working poor and middle class are fed up with liberals is the elitism and PC culture that has permeated the movement. Liberals used to calmly embrace the nuance and ambiguity of complex sociopolitical issues like race, religion, and civil rights but now many seem as dogmatic as the religious right and intolerant of views that do not perfectly coincide with their own. They are now often the people who sue bakers who won't make a cake for a gay wedding when they can just use another baker or call someone a "racist" because they support law enforcement over violent protesters.
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Good post...

And when the day comes that you can see the same elitism, coming from the right of center, and hold their viotrol and condenscention with the same disdain as you hold the liberal's, you may consider yourself enlightened. That is, if you're not already.
 
Captain America said:
Good post...

And when the day comes that you can see the same elitism, coming from the right of center, and hold their viotrol and condenscention with the same disdain as you hold the liberal's, you may consider yourself enlightened. That is, if you're not already.
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It really is a case of which elitism you prefer. I see no obvious difference between what people refer to as "PC culture" and the rights own push for things like the "War on Christmas" or the latest anthem controversy going around. I do agree with the OP that the working class is largely more fed up with the left's version of elitism, but that may have something to do with what personally affects them more.
 
MrPeanut said:
It really is a case of which elitism you prefer. I see no obvious difference between what people refer to as "PC culture" and the rights own push for things like the "War on Christmas" or the latest anthem controversy going around. I do agree with the OP that the working class is largely more fed up with the left's version of elitism, but that may have something to do with what personally affects them more.
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You know, the only people I really ever hear even talking about some "War on Christmas," are usually the outspoken conservative folks who swallow the hype. I'm sure that somewhere there my be some peanut gallery of libtards protesting Santa. Somewhere. I would hardly call them significant to any degree. Surely not enough to constitute a war. All that is just another, insignificant, faux-rage created by the FOXNews crowd intending on creating more division. It's what they do.

If people would step away from the TV and look around they might find christmas trees and lights in just as many progressive homes as they do in conservative homes.

Non-issue. Life is too short.
 
Captain America said:
You know, the only people I really ever hear even talking about some "War on Christmas," are usually the outspoken conservative folks who swallow the hype. I'm sure that somewhere there my be some peanut gallery of libtards protesting Santa. Somewhere. I would hardly call them significant to any degree. Surely not enough to constitute a war. All that is just another, insignificant, faux-rage created by the FOXNews crowd intending on creating more division. It's what they do.

If people would step away from the TV and look around they might find christmas trees and lights in just as many progressive homes as they do in conservative homes.

Non-issue. Life is too short.
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Every year I hear from my some of my family that there is a real threat of religious persecution in this country. The war on Christmas is inevitably brought up. In my city there is a Christian church on almost every block, and manger displays are everywhere. The power of news media to influence people is a serious threat to this country.
 
CriticalThought said:
This is one area I can agree with the populist right wing about and for which I hope against hope that the leftist and progressive movements can do some soul searching about in the coming months. The reason so many independent voters who fall in the working poor and middle class are fed up with liberals is the elitism and PC culture that has permeated the movement. Liberals used to calmly embrace the nuance and ambiguity of complex sociopolitical issues like race, religion, and civil rights but now many seem as dogmatic as the religious right and intolerant of views that do not perfectly coincide with their own. They are now often the people who sue bakers who won't make a cake for a gay wedding when they can just use another baker or call someone a "racist" because they support law enforcement over violent protesters.
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I agree with the others who applaud this post, count me among them.

ttwtt78640 said:
Both liberals and conservatives often posit that some boogie man is responsible for the many ills present in society and both propose (bigger) federal government solutions. No matter whether the party for a bigger federal government or the party for a huge federal government is in charge at the moment the federal government grows in both power and cost.
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Seems to me that you are describing the political elite of both parties and their naked greed for ever more power for the federal government.

I'd also add that it seems the populists in the electorate have had enough of this and the political elites.
 
eohrnberger said:
I agree with the others who applaud this post, count me among them.



Seems to me that you are describing the political elite of both parties and their naked greed for ever more power for the federal government.

I'd also add that it seems the populists in the electorate have had enough of this and the political elites.
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Hmm... that (bolded above) must explain the congress critter re-election rate of over 90%.
 
Captain America said:
Good post...

And when the day comes that you can see the same elitism, coming from the right of center, and hold their viotrol and condenscention with the same disdain as you hold the liberal's, you may consider yourself enlightened. That is, if you're not already.
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:yt

Nutters, extremist, view conformists and those that demand the same are the reasons why I now fly the independent flag but I'm fully aware I lean right.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Hmm... that (bolded above) must explain the congress critter re-election rate of over 90%.
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A valid observation. It is schizofrenic to be dissatisfied with congress, and yet continue to reelect the same people back into office and expect different results.

However, there are more and more in elected congressional office which are being challenged in their primary races. Perhaps a good sign that this is changing?
 
eohrnberger said:
A valid observation. It is schizofrenic to be dissatisfied with congress, and yet continue to reelect the same people back into office and expect different results.

However, there are more and more in elected congressional office which are being challenged in their primary races. Perhaps a good sign that this is changing?
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One can only hope for that. It would certainly help if gerrymandering did not allow congress critters to so carefully pick their voters.
 
I dislike arrogance. Other than that, spot on.
 
MrPeanut said:
It really is a case of which elitism you prefer. I see no obvious difference between what people refer to as "PC culture" and the rights own push for things like the "War on Christmas" or the latest anthem controversy going around. I do agree with the OP that the working class is largely more fed up with the left's version of elitism, but that may have something to do with what personally affects them more.
Click to expand...


Here it would have to be a 'War on Jul' - Jul is the past and present pagan name for Christmas. And not only a name but an object. A straw Jul Bock - Ram - from pre-Christian times can be seen in most homes, right next to the Jul gran.

Somehow the PK (that's Swedish for PC) Islamophiles have not got around to attacking Jul yet.
 
Sweden said:
Here it would have to be a 'War on Jul' - Jul is the past and present pagan name for Christmas. And not only a name but an object. A straw Jul Bock - Ram - from pre-Christian times can be seen in most homes, right next to the Jul gran.

Somehow the PK (that's Swedish for PC) Islamophiles have not got around to attacking Jul yet.
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Is Jul still celebrated as a pagan holiday? I realize it is an amalgamation of Christian and Pagan traditions, but is Christianity front and center? The reason the "War on Christmas" is so popular in the U.S. is because the population is majority Christian. If we had celebrated it as Jul this entire time I doubt we would see so much anger. It would probably be seen more as a secular holiday.
 
CriticalThought said:
This is one area I can agree with the populist right wing about and for which I hope against hope that the leftist and progressive movements can do some soul searching about in the coming months. The reason so many independent voters who fall in the working poor and middle class are fed up with liberals is the elitism and PC culture that has permeated the movement. Liberals used to calmly embrace the nuance and ambiguity of complex sociopolitical issues like race, religion, and civil rights but now many seem as dogmatic as the religious right and intolerant of views that do not perfectly coincide with their own. They are now often the people who sue bakers who won't make a cake for a gay wedding when they can just use another baker or call someone a "racist" because they support law enforcement over violent protesters.
Click to expand...

Neeeeeeever gonna happen...fortunately.
 
MrPeanut said:
Is Jul still celebrated as a pagan holiday? I realize it is an amalgamation of Christian and Pagan traditions, but is Christianity front and center? The reason the "War on Christmas" is so popular in the U.S. is because the population is majority Christian. If we had celebrated it as Jul this entire time I doubt we would see so much anger. It would probably be seen more as a secular holiday.
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As a recent survey - discussed on another thread - showed Sweden has almost entirely shed the Christian religion. Christianity came late and left early. Church attendances, at Christmas or any other time, are very low indeed.

I am. of course, pleased about this but I do worry what the future will be for our many lovely country churches. Many have wonderful wall painting from the 14th and 14 centuries.

What I am not pleased about is the rise of Islam here but that is a topic for another time.
 
CriticalThought said:
This is one area I can agree with the populist right wing about and for which I hope against hope that the leftist and progressive movements can do some soul searching about in the coming months. The reason so many independent voters who fall in the working poor and middle class are fed up with liberals is the elitism and PC culture that has permeated the movement. Liberals used to calmly embrace the nuance and ambiguity of complex sociopolitical issues like race, religion, and civil rights but now many seem as dogmatic as the religious right and intolerant of views that do not perfectly coincide with their own. They are now often the people who sue bakers who won't make a cake for a gay wedding when they can just use another baker or call someone a "racist" because they support law enforcement over violent protesters.
Click to expand...

As stated elsewhere, the overt focus on ID politics among much of the American left is by design rather than being a natural outgrowth.

Where do Democrats turn to for street cred among the left when they won't actually adopt truly leftist economic policy because their wealthy donors are dead set against it? Social wedge issues; things that cost those donors nothing in terms of their business interests, yet still allow Dems to lay at least a tenuous claim to being of the left. Most of it is a cynical smokescreen to distract from their lack of actual economic progressivism.
 
I'll say it again... it's important to distinguish liberals from leftists and conservatives from rightists. The -ists are extremists who are committing acts of oppression and violence against dissenting speech. They're also trying to use the government to enforce their views. The wedding cake debacle is an example of leftism. Rather than letting the open market determine the downfall or survival of a business, they want to force all businesses to capitulate.

Both -ists are causing government power to expand to bloated levels.
 
Northern Light said:
I'll say it again... it's important to distinguish liberals from leftists and conservatives from rightists. The -ists are extremists who are committing acts of oppression and violence against dissenting speech. They're also trying to use the government to enforce their views. The wedding cake debacle is an example of leftism. Rather than letting the open market determine the downfall or survival of a business, they want to force all businesses to capitulate.

Both -ists are causing government power to expand to bloated levels.
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It does seem we need language to describe those who have moved too far along their respective pole of the political spectrum to be able to have any sort of rational discussion. This is one reason I miss Jon Stewart and dislike Trevor Noah. Both are liberals, but Stewart couched his criticisms in reason and could moderate his views whereas Noah simply attacks people for not being liberal.
 
CriticalThought said:
It does seem we need language to describe those who have moved too far along their respective pole of the political spectrum to be able to have any sort of rational discussion. This is one reason I miss Jon Stewart and dislike Trevor Noah. Both are liberals, but Stewart couched his criticisms in reason and could moderate his views whereas Noah simply attacks people for not being liberal.
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The language is important because if we don't distinguish then it makes it look like the entire political spectrum is going crazy, when really it's a loud minority. Ben Shapiro's talks at Berkeley were a good example. There were both liberals and conservatives who paid to see him talk and to have reasonable discourse, even if they disagreed with him. Then you had leftists trashing the city and calling him an alt-right white nationalist nazi as the basis for their violence, none of which is even factual.

Then you have the rightists who show up at protests displaying their guns and talking as though they are about to go to war with the left, how liberals have taken over the country, and promoting violent action. The guy who mowed down protestors in his car was a rightist.

Most politically active Americans are playing by the rule book and we should remember that, even as the bought media is trying to convince us that everyone has lost their minds. People confuse the two when they call every day conservatives "alt-right" for questioning the leftists, or when liberals get called leftists for questioning the quality of nazi speech. We are all noticing the darkness that is entering the political system!
 
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