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Thread: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

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    Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Many people have stated that our alliance with Israel is based upon the fact that they are Western and to some extent that they are "white." Putting aside the fact that many Israelis are of Middle Eastern origin and some are black, i.e. the Falashas of Ethiopian descent, Israel is a major, probably indispensable Western asset.

    Israel is vital to U.S. and overall Western interests in ways that may not be totally obvious. If you are familiar with WW II history, Hitler controlled Europe to the Atlantic Ocean. Spain and Portugal were "neutral in favor of the Axis." Italy was separated from most of Europe by the Alps, and in any event was not conquered until sometime in late 1943 or early 1944.

    The only usable avenues of attack to regain Europe was on the beaches of France; Normandy and/or Calais. The battle to make a beachhead was a bloodbath. Israel is a giant "Normandy" in the Middle East, a fraught and unstable area. Should the West need to enter the Middle East militarily, Israel is the only country that, as a stable democracy, that can be counted on as a springboard. That is why some Arab countries and groups want Israel out so desperately. Knocking off Israel knocks the West out of a large chunk of the world.

    During the Obama years, his approach was that there is really only one world and that no country's military should dominate. A beautiful dream and a recipe for chaos. I feel that most Presidents and especially their Defense Departments understood the essential role Israel played. The State Department, in general, has considered Israel to be an obstacle to peace. Over the years, during the Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II, Clinton and Trump years (Ford and Carter were decidedly of two minds, as was Obama, and Eisenhower was hostile to Israel) the U.S. has been pro-Israel or neutral in favor of Israel.

    I consider that we should be allied to Israel both as based on ideological similarities, i.e. it's a democracy, and for strategic purposes.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    Many people have stated that our alliance with Israel is based upon the fact that they are Western and to some extent that they are "white." Putting aside the fact that many Israelis are of Middle Eastern origin and some are black, i.e. the Falashas of Ethiopian descent, Israel is a major, probably indispensable Western asset.

    Israel is vital to U.S. and overall Western interests in ways that may not be totally obvious. If you are familiar with WW II history, Hitler controlled Europe to the Atlantic Ocean. Spain and Portugal were "neutral in favor of the Axis." Italy was separated from most of Europe by the Alps, and in any event was not conquered until sometime in late 1943 or early 1944.

    The only usable avenues of attack to regain Europe was on the beaches of France; Normandy and/or Calais. The battle to make a beachhead was a bloodbath. Israel is a giant "Normandy" in the Middle East, a fraught and unstable area. Should the West need to enter the Middle East militarily, Israel is the only country that, as a stable democracy, that can be counted on as a springboard. That is why some Arab countries and groups want Israel out so desperately. Knocking off Israel knocks the West out of a large chunk of the world.

    During the Obama years, his approach was that there is really only one world and that no country's military should dominate. A beautiful dream and a recipe for chaos. I feel that most Presidents and especially their Defense Departments understood the essential role Israel played. The State Department, in general, has considered Israel to be an obstacle to peace. Over the years, during the Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II, Clinton and Trump years (Ford and Carter were decidedly of two minds, as was Obama, and Eisenhower was hostile to Israel) the U.S. has been pro-Israel or neutral in favor of Israel.

    I consider that we should be allied to Israel both as based on ideological similarities, i.e. it's a democracy, and for strategic purposes.
    They are probably the best non Anglo allies we have.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    Many people have stated that our alliance with Israel is based upon the fact that they are Western and to some extent that they are "white." Putting aside the fact that many Israelis are of Middle Eastern origin and some are black, i.e. the Falashas of Ethiopian descent, Israel is a major, probably indispensable Western asset.

    Israel is vital to U.S. and overall Western interests in ways that may not be totally obvious. If you are familiar with WW II history, Hitler controlled Europe to the Atlantic Ocean. Spain and Portugal were "neutral in favor of the Axis." Italy was separated from most of Europe by the Alps, and in any event was not conquered until sometime in late 1943 or early 1944.

    The only usable avenues of attack to regain Europe was on the beaches of France; Normandy and/or Calais. The battle to make a beachhead was a bloodbath. Israel is a giant "Normandy" in the Middle East, a fraught and unstable area. Should the West need to enter the Middle East militarily, Israel is the only country that, as a stable democracy, that can be counted on as a springboard. That is why some Arab countries and groups want Israel out so desperately. Knocking off Israel knocks the West out of a large chunk of the world.

    During the Obama years, his approach was that there is really only one world and that no country's military should dominate. A beautiful dream and a recipe for chaos. I feel that most Presidents and especially their Defense Departments understood the essential role Israel played. The State Department, in general, has considered Israel to be an obstacle to peace. Over the years, during the Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II, Clinton and Trump years (Ford and Carter were decidedly of two minds, as was Obama, and Eisenhower was hostile to Israel) the U.S. has been pro-Israel or neutral in favor of Israel.

    I consider that we should be allied to Israel both as based on ideological similarities, i.e. it's a democracy, and for strategic purposes.
    Yes.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    They are probably the best non Anglo allies we have.
    I think of Israel as basically an English-speaking country. Their legal system has some major differences, such as lack of juries, but otherwise is similar. Off the top of my head then Japan is our best non-Anglo ally since Israel is essentially "Anglo."

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    I think of Israel as basically an English-speaking country. Their legal system has some major differences, such as lack of juries, but otherwise is similar. Off the top of my head then Japan is our best non-Anglo ally since Israel is essentially "Anglo."
    I don't think that I totally agree. Their mix is different than ours. More Russians and Germans and the like. But our cultures do have an unusual closeness. No doubt about it. And yes. Japan seems a pretty good ally, though, they don't help us much keeping the trade routes open.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I don't think that I totally agree. Their mix is different than ours. More Russians and Germans and the like. But our cultures do have an unusual closeness. No doubt about it. And yes. Japan seems a pretty good ally, though, they don't help us much keeping the trade routes open.
    Agreed. I don't think any of our non-Anglosphere allies are great. Japan, Taiwan, Singapore (especially that one), Costa Rica and the Republic of Korea are pretty much it. Maybe Iceland is somewhere in the mix. But most allies are all take and talk, no give. France is great, for example, at holding candlelight vigils for us after September 11. But they and Germany don't lift a finger for us elsewhere.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    Agreed. I don't think any of our non-Anglosphere allies are great. Japan, Taiwan, Singapore (especially that one), Costa Rica and the Republic of Korea are pretty much it. Maybe Iceland is somewhere in the mix. But most allies are all take and talk, no give. France is great, for example, at holding candlelight vigils for us after September 11. But they and Germany don't lift a finger for us elsewhere.
    But atleast France has taken responsible action in parts of the world it considered to be its responsibility. Germany and others have not.
    Of course, going into the future the French méthode might prove more dangerous.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    But atleast France has taken responsible action in parts of the world it considered to be its responsibility. Germany and others have not.
    Of course, going into the future the French méthode might prove more dangerous.
    I'll give you this; Francois Hollande was great at crying on TV after the Charlie Hebdo, Hyperkosher, nightclub and soccer game massacres. His crocodile tears seemed very sincere. He even managed to say, in response to urgings that the Jews depart France for the U.S., Canada or Israel that "France wouldn't be France without the Jews."

    Empty words all. He has not taken an "responsible action" to enter the banleius around Paris and clear the very dangerous "no-go" zones.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    I'll give you this; Francois Hollande was great at crying on TV after the Charlie Hebdo, Hyperkosher, nightclub and soccer game massacres. His crocodile tears seemed very sincere. He even managed to say, in response to urgings that the Jews depart France for the U.S., Canada or Israel that "France wouldn't be France without the Jews."

    Empty words all. He has not taken an "responsible action" to enter the banleius around Paris and clear the very dangerous "no-go" zones.
    Yes. Hollande was a general disappointment, even in France.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    I'll give you this; Francois Hollande was great at crying on TV after the Charlie Hebdo, Hyperkosher, nightclub and soccer game massacres. His crocodile tears seemed very sincere. He even managed to say, in response to urgings that the Jews depart France for the U.S., Canada or Israel that "France wouldn't be France without the Jews."

    Empty words all. He has not taken an "responsible action" to enter the banleius around Paris and clear the very dangerous "no-go" zones.
    Yes. Hollande was a general disappointment, even in France.
    Overall symbolism has been a great strength of France, actual deeds not so much. The shining exception was their assistance in the American Revolution. That was more a way to fight Britain in a harmless manner rather that across the Channel. Since then the French Revolution was long on slogans, such as Liberte, Egalite, Fraternatie and short of democratizing accomplishments. The Statue of Liberty, while stirring, was and is a symbol. And their resistance to the Nazis was nominal; the recapture fell to American, Canadian and British troops.

    All of this was a great prelude to Hollande's tears.

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