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Thread: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    One thing I find interesting about Israel, the amount of people who wear American flag clothing. They even openly joke about being the 51st State. One thing I find appealing, the ability to argue without all the hurt feelings. Not on all topics, but when it comes to work there is no fear of arguing your position will have repercussions.


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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Apparently some beg to differ. See Rejecting Israel's Influence over Congress, Rashida Tlaib Plans to Lead Delegation to Palestine. But then there have always been anti-Semites.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    1. I feel that Israel is of NO strategic value to the United States of America.

    2. But I feel that the United States SHOULD continue to support Israel for moral reasons.

    a. I predict, however, that eventually the United States (perhaps by the next century) will withdraw its support.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    Many people have stated that our alliance with Israel is based upon the fact that they are Western and to some extent that they are "white." Putting aside the fact that many Israelis are of Middle Eastern origin and some are black, i.e. the Falashas of Ethiopian descent, Israel is a major, probably indispensable Western asset.

    Israel is vital to U.S. and overall Western interests in ways that may not be totally obvious. If you are familiar with WW II history, Hitler controlled Europe to the Atlantic Ocean. Spain and Portugal were "neutral in favor of the Axis." Italy was separated from most of Europe by the Alps, and in any event was not conquered until sometime in late 1943 or early 1944.

    The only usable avenues of attack to regain Europe was on the beaches of France; Normandy and/or Calais. The battle to make a beachhead was a bloodbath. Israel is a giant "Normandy" in the Middle East, a fraught and unstable area. Should the West need to enter the Middle East militarily, Israel is the only country that, as a stable democracy, that can be counted on as a springboard. That is why some Arab countries and groups want Israel out so desperately. Knocking off Israel knocks the West out of a large chunk of the world.

    During the Obama years, his approach was that there is really only one world and that no country's military should dominate. A beautiful dream and a recipe for chaos. I feel that most Presidents and especially their Defense Departments understood the essential role Israel played. The State Department, in general, has considered Israel to be an obstacle to peace. Over the years, during the Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II, Clinton and Trump years (Ford and Carter were decidedly of two minds, as was Obama, and Eisenhower was hostile to Israel) the U.S. has been pro-Israel or neutral in favor of Israel.

    I consider that we should be allied to Israel both as based on ideological similarities, i.e. it's a democracy, and for strategic purposes.
    There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. There are 15 million Jews - i.e. a one in thousand ratio. And we are pissing off all of those Muslims. Over half those Jews choose, voluntarily, to live outside of Israel. They have the option of living in other Western democracies and frequently prefer to.

    No, Israel is not in the strategic interest of the US.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarn View Post
    There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. There are 15 million Jews - i.e. a one in thousand ratio. And we are pissing off all of those Muslims. Over half those Jews choose, voluntarily, to live outside of Israel. They have the option of living in other Western democracies and frequently prefer to.

    No, Israel is not in the strategic interest of the US.
    What is the Nobel Prize ratio of Jews to Muslims? And I really don't care if some consider Jerusalem, known to them as Al Qds, a holy city because Mohamed's camel died there. No Arab politician visited Jerusalem between 1949 and June 1967. Their claim is bogus.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    Many people have stated that our alliance with Israel is based upon the fact that they are Western and to some extent that they are "white." Putting aside the fact that many Israelis are of Middle Eastern origin and some are black, i.e. the Falashas of Ethiopian descent, Israel is a major, probably indispensable Western asset.

    Israel is vital to U.S. and overall Western interests in ways that may not be totally obvious. If you are familiar with WW II history, Hitler controlled Europe to the Atlantic Ocean. Spain and Portugal were "neutral in favor of the Axis." Italy was separated from most of Europe by the Alps, and in any event was not conquered until sometime in late 1943 or early 1944.

    The only usable avenues of attack to regain Europe was on the beaches of France; Normandy and/or Calais. The battle to make a beachhead was a bloodbath. Israel is a giant "Normandy" in the Middle East, a fraught and unstable area. Should the West need to enter the Middle East militarily, Israel is the only country that, as a stable democracy, that can be counted on as a springboard. That is why some Arab countries and groups want Israel out so desperately. Knocking off Israel knocks the West out of a large chunk of the world.

    During the Obama years, his approach was that there is really only one world and that no country's military should dominate. A beautiful dream and a recipe for chaos. I feel that most Presidents and especially their Defense Departments understood the essential role Israel played. The State Department, in general, has considered Israel to be an obstacle to peace. Over the years, during the Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Reagan, Bush I and II, Clinton and Trump years (Ford and Carter were decidedly of two minds, as was Obama, and Eisenhower was hostile to Israel) the U.S. has been pro-Israel or neutral in favor of Israel.

    I consider that we should be allied to Israel both as based on ideological similarities, i.e. it's a democracy, and for strategic purposes.
    Funny how liberals are always for looking out for the little guy, wanting refugees to come to this country to escape whatever is going on in their home countries, including granting illegals from Central America and other countries asylum, and yet they are so willing to throw victims of the Holocaust (Jews) under the bus and let them be obliterated from existence.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    Funny how liberals are always for looking out for the little guy, wanting refugees to come to this country to escape whatever is going on in their home countries, including granting illegals from Central America and other countries asylum, and yet they are so willing to throw victims of the Holocaust (Jews) under the bus and let them be obliterated from existence.
    Quite true.

    And the liberals (I consider myself one) say they are looking out for the underdog but in practice are looking out for whatever latest fad is harmful to society. It's a guilt trip, mixed down with old-fashioned anti-semitism. It's always the Jews that get the short end.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarn View Post
    There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. There are 15 million Jews - i.e. a one in thousand ratio. And we are pissing off all of those Muslims. Over half those Jews choose, voluntarily, to live outside of Israel. They have the option of living in other Western democracies and frequently prefer to.

    No, Israel is not in the strategic interest of the US.
    So the Jews should abandon Isreal because it upsets Muslims? Those 1.8 billion muslims have multiple countries they can choose to live in, Jews have 1.........Given the recent rise of antisemitism in western democracies, it would be foolish to give up the one country that they can count on for their safety should it reach holocaust levels again.

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    I think of Israel as basically an English-speaking country. Their legal system has some major differences, such as lack of juries, but otherwise is similar. Off the top of my head then Japan is our best non-Anglo ally since Israel is essentially "Anglo."
    I've been to Israel. Outside of the touristy areas like Tel Aviv or Jerusalem, few people speak english. I had an easier time speaking english in Japan, than I ever did in Israel. It's not really an english country, nor is it white. You have some white people there, but otherwise, the mixing between Ashkenazi and Sephardim have led to a clear middle eastern look that is no longer distinct from Arab-Palestinians

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    Re: Is Israel of Strategic Value to the U.S. and the West?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    1. I feel that Israel is of NO strategic value to the United States of America.

    2. But I feel that the United States SHOULD continue to support Israel for moral reasons.

    a. I predict, however, that eventually the United States (perhaps by the next century) will withdraw its support.
    I agree with statement #1.

    Israel creaates enemies for the USA in the region.

    Israel interferes in USA elections with huge lobbying campaigns and political groups.

    Isreal is a strong, wealthy Nations and does not need USA help.
    /

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