• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why are Trump supporters indifferent of his divisiveness?

RabidAlpaca said:
A lot of the Trump supporters who celebrate Arpaio's pardoning simply do not care that Arpaio illegally held innocent American citizens captive in harsh conditions without trial, because they do not see hispanic Americans as Americans. Sympathizing with Arpaio means sympathizing with arbitrarily locking up brown people without due process on the whims of a government bureaucrat. You can not be for law and order, the constitution, or racial equality if you support Arpaio and his highly illegal and unconstitutional tactics.
Click to expand...

Well, they didn't illegally vote for Trump. That's what's important.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I can't speak for Trump supporters, not being one, but I certainly can speak as someone who understands why Trump supporters would continue to support him as he continues to be "divisive" as you say. I'd make two points in that regard:

1. The Democrat Party, specifically, and liberals, more broadly, have made a living out of pitting one faction of society against another on every policy issue known to man so calling out someone representing the right as being the "most divisive President since Lincoln" is pretty rich. Liberals created identity politics and fed off it's divisive nature for decades. And it is the left, and their media mouthpieces that are fomenting the divisiveness under Trump as much as anything Trump has done or said.

2. The list of characters you claim Trump has "attacked" is a litany of those who have been attacking the right and conservatives in government for decades as well. A little payback is what many of the supporters of Trump have been dying for and they are delighted to see it finally come to pass.
Click to expand...

And now Trump is just playing the identity politics of angry white nationalists. His whole campaign pitch to blacks was "Your life is garbage, you might as well vote for me."
 
RabidAlpaca said:
A lot of the Trump supporters who celebrate Arpaio's pardoning simply do not care that Arpaio illegally held innocent American citizens captive in harsh conditions without trial, because they do not see hispanic Americans as Americans. Sympathizing with Arpaio means sympathizing with arbitrarily locking up brown people without due process on the whims of a government bureaucrat. You can not be for law and order, the constitution, or racial equality if you support Arpaio and his highly illegal and unconstitutional tactics.
Click to expand...

Law and Order has always been a coded message urging control of those people. What the american public repeatedly fails to grasp is that any government's over arching societal control scheme will be rolled out onto a vulnerable group or groups first and then expanded from there once accepted by the masses as normal. We already have militarized police departments that have had military exercises in instances like Ferguson and the indigenous DAPL protests, but stood down in Charlottesville. And we have corporate for profit prisons complete with stocks traded on Wall Street and convict leasing, so we’re also already again practicing profiteering from bondage.
 
CriticalThought said:
I don't support open borders or socialism and I am not a Democrat. I have been a registered Independent for well over a decade and voted for both parties. You identified some genuine issues this country has, particularly with immigration but nothing Trump has said or done is really indicative of moving this country toward fixing it. Pardoning a lawless Sheriff is not likely to bring people to the table on immigration reforms. Building a useless wall that does little to secure our border is equally as pointless and is even more politically divisive for its costs.

I don't understand why you feel like pissing on people like me, who generally are not liberal or conservative, but who have a stake in this country, is ok.
Click to expand...

Tell me a wall does not work.

San Diego Fence Provides Lessons in Border Control : NPR
 
Mach said:
Of course he is, this has been a summer blockbuster of a drama, and it's showing no signs of slowing.
Click to expand...

The "drama" is concocted by the Mainstream Media. That's the simple truth. Heck, if Obama had said that both sides were to blame...and that's something he WOULD have said...the media would have said it's a good thing for him to say. But when Trump said it, they spun that whole contrived mountain of drama out of it...for something that WASN'T divisive on Trump's part.

But you are correct. The drama won't slow or go away...and it doesn't matter what Trump does. The Mainstream Media will make sure of that.

Oh bull****. Did Sessions attack Trump? No, he was a SUPPORTER of Trump. But Trump felt it was OK to attack him just the same because Trump knows only two modes. Lies/hyperbole, and attack. We can go down the list, we have it all on record, Trump's so ****ing stupid in his tweets and interviews that it's not like it's hard to prove.
Click to expand...

Sessions needed a wake up call. Trump gave it to him. It worked.

You can go down your "list". You can spout your spin. That's all you have.
 
CriticalThought said:
That is probably one of the oddest things I have observed the last 6 months. Trump is probably the most divisive president since Lincoln. He attacks the media, protesters, Democrats, leaders of his own party, members of his own administration, CEOs who were on his own councils, etc.

During Charlottesville, a tragedy that most leaders would see as an opportunity to unify the nation against a common threat, he decided to provide cover for white supremacists (those "fine people" who just care about historical statues) because of the hate on "all sides", albeit only one side murdered a woman.

During a natural disaster, Hurricane Harvey, most leaders would want the country focused on standing strong together, but Trump chooses that exact moment to flip off liberals and Latinos by pardoning an unrepentant criminal before he was even sentenced because apparently he was "just doing his job" of racially profiling and unlawfully detaining people, including Hispanic American citizens. He also chose that same moment to ban transgenders in the military from openly serving, even though he can point to no evidence that they have done anything to harm the effectiveness of our military and he is spitting in the face of brave Americans who are willing to serve.

Trump appears quite willing to be a president just for his base, to put them above the law, and to disrespect and ignore the other two thirds of America. His supporters seem to love him for it, but I wonder what the consequences will be for their choices. Obama was moderate and tempered by comparison, and he ended up being despised on a visceral level by many Americans. Now Trump supporters appear to be making the mistake of ignoring how people outside of Trump world feel about his divisive tactics.
Click to expand...

Trump is flipping off the establishment and that's what his base likes about him and why they voted for him. He flames and baits and then goes on a flaming and baiting tour to keep his base whipped up, which why he pardoned Arpaio; even though he promised to be the "law and order president"...

Trump's style is to be consistently on the attack so he can keep his opponents of the defensive, however both the credible press and thinking people have always been able to see through that shoddy veil, which is why his presidency isn't working out for anybody but the gullible in his base.
 
rocket88 said:
And now Trump is just playing the identity politics of angry white nationalists. His whole campaign pitch to blacks was "Your life is garbage, you might as well vote for me."
Click to expand...

Good afternoon Rocket,

Actually, from what I've seen, Trump is playing the identity politics of everyone but the Washington/Media elites. He's unabashedly nationalistic - surely, not only angry white men support America first - he's championing the middle class by opening up NAFTA discussions, fully supported by those in the rust belt states who swung to him in the election and away from Clinton - he's pushing national sovereignty through the wall push - he's pushing for tax reform, supported by the middle class - he's pushed for repealing/replacing the ACA, supported by many - etc.

The way the Washington/Media elites have fought back is to brand him as an angry white man and thus the leader of the angry white men movement, whatever that's supposed to be. Trump's problem is that instead of being above it and defining himself through actions and deeds, he's allowing them to define him in this narrow way by reacting to it every time.

Trump has serious character flaws that are keeping him from being an incredibly popular President based on his agenda and his outsider base.
 
CriticalThought said:
I don't support open borders or socialism and I am not a Democrat. I have been a registered Independent for well over a decade and voted for both parties. You identified some genuine issues this country has, particularly with immigration but nothing Trump has said or done is really indicative of moving this country toward fixing it. Pardoning a lawless Sheriff is not likely to bring people to the table on immigration reforms. Building a useless wall that does little to secure our border is equally as pointless and is even more politically divisive for its costs.

I don't understand why you feel like pissing on people like me, who generally are not liberal or conservative, but who have a stake in this country, is ok.
Click to expand...

So you feel abused by me? Which candidate did the DNC screw you out of. Or did you throw away you vote on a libertarian.
 
Perotista said:
Trump has lost a lot of support he had with independents, but most of that lost has to do with his persona as an obnoxious oaf. Not so much where he stands on the issues or policies which some are for, some are against and the rest are pretty much split 50-50 among independents. Trump has dropped from 48% support among independents at the end of January to 35% today. Independents expect a president to at least act a bit like a president. Trump hasn't. He also has lost some Republican support from 90% down to 75%. He never had any Democratic support, ever.

Most of the support Trump lost with Republicans were among the anti-Clinton Republicans, the never-Trump Republicans who voted for him only because the other choice was Clinton. These folks disliked Trump to begin with, but they hated Clinton even more. Independents went for Trump last year 46-42 with 12% voting third party. Again, part of the reason Trump won independents is that they disliked Clinton worst. If Gallup is to be believed 54% of all independents disliked both Trump and Clinton and wanted someone else to become the next president.

So it's not surprising Trump is falling with independents, most didn't like him to begin with. But were far more willing to give Trump a chance to govern than Democrats which weren't willing at all. What is surprising is 35% of all independents still approve of the Donald. But 20 out of that 35% only somewhat approve. They could leave that somewhat column at any time.
Click to expand...

The question is: "Who will the voters vote for when faced with Trump vs a far left Democrat?" Especially if Trump can get tax reform through congress and make US exports more competitive.
 
chuckiechan said:
The question is: "Who will the voters vote for when faced with Trump vs a far left Democrat?" Especially if Trump can get tax reform through congress and make US exports more competitive.
Click to expand...

What approval polls are today means next to nothing. Where they are at in August of 2018 and August of 2020, they will probably mean a whole lot. What the economy is doing today, means next to nothing. What the economy is doing in August of 2018 and 2020 will probably spell the difference between victory and defeat.

One a voter decides they don't like a candidate or president it takes something extraordinary to change that voters mind. Trump was lucky to go against Hillary Clinton. By that I mean approximately 60% of America disliked Clinton and 60% disliked Trump. To make up that 60% for both candidates, one must remember that 25% of American disliked both major party candidates. So you not talking in excess of 100%. Had Clinton won, she in my opinion would have these extra low approval ratings as Trump is having today. Both would have started out with 60% of America against them or at least having a negative view of them.

Tax Reform, can it happen? With Trump feuding with Republican congressional leaders and the GOP rank and file in congress, perhaps not. That remains to be seen. Trump is political dumb picking fights with his own party members, members he will need in the future. Several posters have said, no problem, they will just primary them out. But a word of warning, those challengers who primaried out an incumbent usually lost in the general as history has shown. Richard Lugar was primaried out by the Tea Party's Mourdock, Mourdock lost to Donnelly. For every Dave Brat who wins, there are two Lugar's who lose.
 
Mycroft said:
Trump is NOT the most divisive President at all. If anyone in RECENT history should be characterized that way, it would be Obama.
Click to expand...

I suppose on that we can agree. Obama was a 50/50 president in the polling for a good portion of his time in office (though he pulled closer to 60/40 as the end of his tenure neared), even though his rhetoric was of conciliation.

Trump is closer to a 30/70 president, even though his rhetoric is that of division. Most of the American people are united against this white supremacist piece of trash.
 
Greenbeard said:
I suppose on that we can agree. Obama was a 50/50 president in the polling for a good portion of his time in office (though he pulled closer to 60/40 as the end of his tenure neared), even though his rhetoric was of conciliation.

Trump is closer to a 30/70 president, even though his rhetoric is that of division. Most of the American people are united against this white supremacist piece of trash.
Click to expand...

Trump's rhetoric isn't even divisive. It is only being spun that way by people who don't like him.

For example: "I blame both sides for the hatred and violence." Spun into: "Trump sides with the Nazis!!"
 
Mycroft said:
Trump's rhetoric isn't even divisive. It is only being spun that way by people who don't like him.

For example: "I blame both sides for the hatred and violence." Spun into: "Trump sides with the Nazis!!"
Click to expand...

Thankfully, the slice of the American people who buy this "there are plenty of good people at Nazi rallies!" BS is limited to Trump's base. And most of us recognized those folks for who they are over a year ago.
 
Greenbeard said:
Thankfully, the slice of the American people who buy this "there are plenty of good people at Nazi rallies!" BS is limited to Trump's base. And most of us recognized those folks for who they are over a year ago.
Click to expand...

And yet, the Trump haters either ignore the hatred and violence from the left (Antifa mostly) or they fully support the hatred and violence from the left. Do you agree with those Trump haters? Do you support the hatred and violence from the left? Do you ignore the hatred and violence from the left?

Trump didn't. He condemned the hatred and violence on BOTH sides. Tell me again, who is being divisive.
 
Mycroft said:
And yet, the Trump haters either ignore the hatred and violence from the left (Antifa mostly) or they fully support the hatred and violence from the left. Do you agree with those Trump haters? Do you support the hatred and violence from the left? Do you ignore the hatred and violence from the left?
Click to expand...

I'm on the side of Nazi-haters. A woman was killed! There are not two sides to Nazism.

If you haven't figured out Nazis are bad and worthy of condemnation, what more is there to talk about? If you think we need to spend equal time on rowdy anti-fascist protesters and Nazism/outright murder, you are part of a very disturbing problem. Rowdy protestors are broken up by cops. Defeating the murderous scourge of Nazism required the combined forces of the Allied powers.

Trump is on the wrong side of history. 70 years after that history was decided.
 
Greenbeard said:
I'm on the side of Nazi-haters. A woman was killed! There are not two sides to Nazism.

If you haven't figured out Nazis are bad and worthy of condemnation, what more is there to talk about? If you think we need to spend equal time on rowdy anti-fascist protesters and Nazism/outright murder, you are part of a very disturbing problem. Rowdy protestors are broken up by cops. Defeating the murderous scourge of Nazism required the combined forces of the Allied powers.

Trump is on the wrong side of history. 70 years after that history was decided.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up.

When a group demonstrating for free speech is attacked by Antifa, all you have to do is call them Nazis...and Antifa is doing a good thing in your opinion. When a group is praying in a park and they are attacked by Antifa, all you have to do is call them Nazis...and Antifa is doing a good thing in your opinion. When Cops are trying to maintain order and are attacked by Antifa...all you have to do is call them Nazis...and Antifa is doing a good thing in your opinion.

Condemnation is not a blank check toward violence.
 
Mycroft said:
Thanks for clearing that up.

When a group demonstrating for free speech is attacked by Antifa, all you have to do is call them Nazis...and Antifa is doing a good thing in your opinion. When a group is praying in a park and they are attacked by Antifa, all you have to do is call them Nazis...and Antifa is doing a good thing in your opinion. When Cops are trying to maintain order and are attacked by Antifa...all you have to do is call them Nazis...and Antifa is doing a good thing in your opinion.

Condemnation is not a blank check toward violence.
Click to expand...

No one is condoning violence. Many are condemning Nazis. Which I realize is quite difficult for some.

I'm not alone in finding the white supremacy of this president extremely distressing. The winks and nods during the campaign have become full-throated equivocation and adoption of their talking points in the White House.
 
Greenbeard said:
No one is condoning violence. Many are condemning Nazis. Which I realize is quite difficult for some.

I'm not alone in finding the white supremacy of this president extremely distressing. The winks and nods during the campaign have become full-throated equivocation and adoption of their talking points in the White House.
Click to expand...

Either you are for Antifa, you are against Antifa...or you ignore Antifa. Will you condemn both sides of the hatred and violence...as the President did? Or will you excuse or ignore one side of the violence...as the Trump haters do?

btw, these are the guys you are either supporting ("I'm on the side of Nazi-haters.") or ignoring.

IMG_5023.jpg

This is today...at Berkeley. No Nazis around. Just Trump supporters.
 
Last edited:
Mycroft said:
Either you are for Antifa, you are against Antifa...or you ignore Antifa. Will you condemn both sides of the hatred and violence...as the President did? Or will you excuse or ignore one side of the violence...as the Trump haters do?
Click to expand...

You're drawing an equivalence with an ideology whose grotesque racial theories and bloodlust are directly responsible for the deaths of 50-85 million people (including a genocide). What planet are you living on?

If you're watching Raiders of the Lost Ark and can't figure out which side is the bad guys, just take a break from all this for a while. Unplug.
 
Greenbeard said:
You're drawing an equivalence with an ideology whose grotesque racial theories and bloodlust are directly responsible for the deaths of 50-85 million people (including a genocide). What planet are you living on?

If you're watching Raiders of the Lost Ark and can't figure out which side is the bad guys, just take a break from all this for a while. Unplug.
Click to expand...

The only equivalence I'm drawing is two sides intent upon violence. I condemn them both. You, on the other hand, are consumed by one side to the point of either supporting the other side or giving them a pass.

I don't know...maybe you LIKE violence...as long as it's against those YOU don't like. Myself...I'm on the side of law, order, the Constitution and I'm against mob violence.
 
Mycroft said:
The only equivalence I'm drawing is two sides intent upon violence. I condemn them both.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's what he said. Same reason Trump got hammered by everyone.

KKK/Nazis
Racial hatred, intent on racial division, genocide, may be violent at a rally

Antifa
hates KKK/Nazis, may be violent at a rally

Antifa and KKK/Nazis are equivalent because they are both violent, and I condemn violence.

(what about the, you know, other stuff that makes Nazis and the KKK not such fine people?)
 
Mach said:
Yes, that's what he said. Same reason Trump got hammered by everyone.

KKK/Nazis
Racial hatred, intent on racial division, genocide, may be violent at a rally

Antifa
hates KKK/Nazis, may be violent at a rally

Antifa and KKK/Nazis are equivalent because they are both violent, and I condemn violence.

(what about the, you know, other stuff that makes Nazis and the KKK not such fine people?)
Click to expand...

The problem, you see, is that Antifa isn't really about hating KKK/Nazis. They are anarchists who will use any excuse to beat people, break things, fight cops and set fires. Heck, they'll even call non-violent Trump supporters Nazis so they can do all that stuff. We saw this happen today at Berkeley, but it's been happening for quite some time.

Anyway, I don't support Nazis, the KKK OR Antifa. When any of those groups use violence to express their hatred and bigotry, I condemn them. If any of them want to demonstrate in a peaceful, non-violent manner they are allowed to do so. That is guaranteed by our Constitution. I am free to ignore their demonstration. Nobody is free to bust their heads.
 
CriticalThought said:
That is probably one of the oddest things I have observed the last 6 months. Trump is probably the most divisive president since Lincoln. He attacks the media, protesters, Democrats, leaders of his own party, members of his own administration, CEOs who were on his own councils, etc.

During Charlottesville, a tragedy that most leaders would see as an opportunity to unify the nation against a common threat, he decided to provide cover for white supremacists (those "fine people" who just care about historical statues) because of the hate on "all sides", albeit only one side murdered a woman.

During a natural disaster, Hurricane Harvey, most leaders would want the country focused on standing strong together, but Trump chooses that exact moment to flip off liberals and Latinos by pardoning an unrepentant criminal before he was even sentenced because apparently he was "just doing his job" of racially profiling and unlawfully detaining people, including Hispanic American citizens. He also chose that same moment to ban transgenders in the military from openly serving, even though he can point to no evidence that they have done anything to harm the effectiveness of our military and he is spitting in the face of brave Americans who are willing to serve.

Trump appears quite willing to be a president just for his base, to put them above the law, and to disrespect and ignore the other two thirds of America. His supporters seem to love him for it, but I wonder what the consequences will be for their choices. Obama was moderate and tempered by comparison, and he ended up being despised on a visceral level by many Americans. Now Trump supporters appear to be making the mistake of ignoring how people outside of Trump world feel about his divisive tactics.
Click to expand...

Because most of the people who voted for him were actually voting against Hillary and don't care.

Thread...really...that is the really the only way to see it. He was a means to an end...a conservative judge that kept republican majority of SCOTUS.




The crowd is not the sum of its parts.

I am a republican who did not vote for Trump (Or Hillary).
Click to expand...
 
CriticalThought said:
Exactly what results do you envision Trump is getting by being this divisive?
Click to expand...

First, IMO, the exposure of the trash in D.C. pretending to have the best interests of the people of this country at heart.

Second, the exposure of the fraud, manipulation, and extreme bias of the Nations MSM. You can lie to people some of the time........

Third, the exposure of the left's Culture War, and the lengths they will go to tear the country apart to achieve their objective.

There are many others, but these seem to me some of the most important.
 
Mycroft said:
Thanks for clearing that up.

When a group demonstrating for free speech is attacked by Antifa, all you have to do is call them Nazis...and Antifa is doing a good thing in your opinion. When a group is praying in a park and they are attacked by Antifa, all you have to do is call them Nazis...and Antifa is doing a good thing in your opinion. When Cops are trying to maintain order and are attacked by Antifa...all you have to do is call them Nazis...and Antifa is doing a good thing in your opinion.

Condemnation is not a blank check toward violence.
Click to expand...

I think when people march around with swastikas chanting "Jews will not replace us" it's pretty safe to call them Nazis.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom