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Any Antifa members here?

RabidAlpaca said:
Well I would consider myself an anti-fascist, just as my father before me, and his father and much of my extended family for generations. Simply being a red blooded American with a respect for our rights and principles should make you sympathetic to anti-fascists and antagonistic towards fascists.
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The Winston Churchill Prediction has come true "When Fascism come in the future it will be called a Anti-Fascist."
 
Hari Seldon said:
Its a good thing the KKK never burned down any buildings, (church's) or prohibited AMERICANS from exercising their rights.
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They haven't in about 50 years. The Fascist group calling itself Anti-Fa has burned buildings within the last few months
 
Casca XV said:
The Winston Churchill Prediction has come true "When Fascism come in the future it will be called a Anti-Fascist."
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Yes, it's not the people demanding racial genocide that are the fascists, it's the people who oppose the racial genocide. :roll: The lengths you'll go to defend nazis are impressive.

Josie said:
Oh, so the opposing group aren't Nazis, then?
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My point was that it's impossible for me, an individual to violate someone's 1st amendment rights, that only applies to the government. In the special case of people calling for racial genocide against their fellow countrymen, we as Americans don't have any obligation to defend their speech with no consequences. Sure, the government can't stop them, but that doesn't mean people can't oppose bad ideas.

Harshaw said:
Nonsense. You can answer in the abstract. You're just avoiding answering. It's pretty clear that you do condone their methods.
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Really? So killing is killing is killing, all the same in every situation? Killing in war, killing in defense, killing in passion, premeditated killing, these are all the same things? There are situations in life where I believe violence is justified. If you're so much of a pacifist that you wouldn't even defend your own family because all violence is exactly the same with no conditions, then you're not a very respectable person.

If a counter-protestor saw nazis hitting a black guy laying on the ground with bats, would violence be acceptable to try to stop them? What if the nazis were just hanging out singing Kumbaya? Would it be ok to use violence to stop them then? Situations and details matter.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
My point was that it's impossible for me, an individual to violate someone's 1st amendment rights, that only applies to the government. In the special case of people calling for racial genocide against their fellow countrymen, we as Americans don't have any obligation to defend their speech with no consequences. Sure, the government can't stop them, but that doesn't mean people can't oppose bad ideas.
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No, you said that individuals cannot be Fascists - only governments. Would you like to amend that statement?
 
Grand Mal said:
Just curious, this has nothing to do with the topic. Is there anything people could say that would make you want to shut them up, violently if necessary?
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I would hope that you yourself would answer no to that question. There are times when we lose control because of things people have said to us. IMO, these rare times that we DO lose control have to do with personal betrayal. And that answer is to punch a wall if you simply must, or better, to remove yourself. Otherwise, we're just mad as hell.

But It is ridiculous to punch some idiot in the face because he's standing on a street corner yelling "**** all the Jews." The answer to THAT is to walk out of earshot. That's just as easy as it is to turn the channel when you don't like the program. Or, better by far? Don't give them an audience in the first place and stay home.

Hate groups thrive on violence. Thrive on inciting others to react violently. It's their sick recruitment tool. And the Antifas' tactics they've demonstrated of late, frankly, prove they are not one smidgeon better than the hate groups they confront.

Violence is NEVER the answer to words. E.V.E.R.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Really? So killing is killing is killing, all the same in every situation? Killing in war, killing in defense, killing in passion, premeditated killing, these are all the same things? There are situations in life where I believe violence is justified. If you're so much of a pacifist that you wouldn't even defend your own family because all violence is exactly the same with no conditions, then you're not a very respectable person.

If a counter-protestor saw nazis hitting a black guy laying on the ground with bats, would violence be acceptable to try to stop them? What if the nazis were just hanging out singing Kumbaya? Would it be ok to use violence to stop them then? Situations and details matter.
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Oh, please. This is just transparent blather. Antifa goes violent when no one's life is in danger. They suppress speech they don't like. They damage property which has nothing to do with anything they're protesting.

You know this. You're just looking for excuses NOT to denounce it.

You support it. Of this, there is no question. I'd have thought you'd have the stones to say so, but I guess not.
 
Harshaw said:
Oh, please. This is just transparent blather. Antifa goes violent when no one's life is in danger. They suppress speech they don't like. They damage property which has nothing to do with anything they're protesting.

You know this. You're just looking for excuses NOT to denounce it.

You support it. Of this, there is no question. I'd have thought you'd have the stones to say so, but I guess not.
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Nope, I don't support killing innocent people, and I'm not the kind of person who would show up to a protest armed to the teeth ready to start blowing protesters away if I get scared.

Josie said:
No, you said that individuals cannot be Fascists - only governments. Would you like to amend that statement?
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No, I didn't I was responding to your comment that individuals opposing the hate speech of others is fascism. It's not, the government shutting down speech is fascism not individuals opposing them. Of course individuals can be fascists.

Josie said:
And apparently it's lost on them that suppression of free speech and violence are both very Fascist-y.
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RabidAlpaca said:
Fascism would pertain to the government, not the reactions of individuals against threats.
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RabidAlpaca said:
Nope, I don't support killing innocent people, and I'm not the kind of person who would show up to a protest armed to the teeth ready to start blowing protesters away if I get scared.
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And yet you STILL haven't denounced what you were actually asked about.

This is weaseling of the kind I would not previously have expected from you. It's fascinating.

But then, the election has changed a lot people.
 
Harshaw said:
And yet you STILL haven't denounced what you were actually asked about.

This is weaseling of the kind I would not previously have expected from you. It's fascinating.

But then, the election has changed a lot people.
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Of course I haven't denounced it, because I said from the beginning violence is sometimes justified. You're the one here saying it's never justified under any circumstance, ever.

It's also important to note I didn't show up to the rally armed to the teeth giddy for the chance to kill somebody. A lot of others did, maybe you should be directing your outrage to them.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Of course I haven't denounced it, because I said from the beginning violence is sometimes justified. You're the one here saying it's never justified under any circumstance, ever.
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No, I asked you a question about general methods -- violence, speech suppression, and property damage -- which Antifa does frequently, whether or not anyone's life is in danger, and whether or not anyone involved is a "Nazi."

You know that's what I asked. You're just weaseling -- and focusing only on extreme situations -- to avoid saying you approve of that.

It's also important to note I didn't show up to the rally armed to the teeth giddy for the chance to kill somebody. A lot of others did, maybe you should be directing your outrage to them.
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That has nothing to do with the question I asked you. This is just "but but but but but -- what about them????" Something you yourself love to point out when someone else does it.

Disappointing. You used to do much better than this.
 
Harshaw said:
No, I asked you a question about general methods -- violence, speech suppression, and property damage -- which Antifa does frequently, whether or not anyone's life is in danger, and whether or not anyone involved is a "Nazi."
You know that's what I asked. You're just weaseling -- and focusing only on extreme situations -- to avoid saying you approve of that.
That has nothing to do with the question I asked you. This is just "but but but but but -- what about them????" Something you yourself love to point out when someone else does it.
Disappointing. You used to do much better than this.
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You're just upset because I don't say exactly what you want me to say. Some people in antifa do use violence to suppress speech and commit property damage, that doesn't mean they all do or that everyone who showed up in Charlottesville to protest nazis is antifa. Antifa is not a hierarchical organization with leaders and structure, it's a vague idea with no rules or membership requirements.

I'm not going to shed a tear if a nazi who wants to commit genocide against his fellow Americans and shows up to rallies armed to the teeth ready to kill gets punched in the face or maced. Act like a nazi, win nazi prizes. I don't believe individual Americans are morally obligated to protect the rights of people who don't want those rights to exist in the first place. The government on the other hand doesn't have a choice and should protect them all equally.

If you show up to a protest armed to the teeth, you are not there in peace.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
You're just upset because I don't say exactly what you want me to say.
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No, I'd say you're the one who's getting agitated because you're being asked an uncomfortable question.

You could denounce violence, speech suppression, and property damage as general tactics, as was the actual question. You will not do so.

Simply put, you approve of it, and you resent it being pointed out.

You had plenty of chances. It's time just to let the record stand.
 
Harshaw said:
No, I'd say you're the one who's getting agitated because you're being asked an uncomfortable question.
You could denounce violence, speech suppression, and property damage as general tactics, as was the actual question. You will not do so.
Simply put, you approve of it, and you resent it being pointed out.
You had plenty of chances. It's time just to let the record stand.
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I've already stated that in the special case of dealing with armed nazis calling for racial genocide I don't think Americans have to give two ****s about their rights or feelings. You can draw whatever conclusions from that that make you feel good.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I've already stated that in the special case of dealing with armed nazis calling for racial genocide I don't think Americans have to give two ****s about their rights or feelings. You can draw whatever conclusions from that that make you feel good.
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Yep. That's what you said.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I've already stated that in the special case of dealing with armed nazis calling for racial genocide I don't think Americans have to give two ****s about their rights or feelings. You can draw whatever conclusions from that that make you feel good.
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Based purely on that statement, I have no issues with what you have said right there.
 
Casca XV said:
The Winston Churchill Prediction has come true "When Fascism come in the future it will be called a Anti-Fascist."
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Did Winston Churchill really say that “The Fascists of the future will be the anti-fascists”? Definitely not.

A similar quote is attributed to Huey Long, a populist Senator from Louisiana, in books and magazines of the 1930s, and 40s: “When fascism comes to America it will be called anti-fascism.” Long was assassinated in 1935 and it’s unclear if he said this, or if it was invented after his assassination. But Churchill never said it.
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https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/9-quotes-from-winston-churchill-that-are-totally-fake-1790585636

Repeated search results find this attribution to be fake.

Jesse Booth: Casca doesn't vet or cite his sources at all. Don't take what he says seriously.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
Just curious, how about sympathizers?
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As, probably, the only one around here who was a refugee from fascists and subsequently bombed and rocketed by fascists I have an opinion. Antifa - we have them here in Sweden too - are thugs and bully boys who would be entirely at home in the Nazi Brown Shirts. They are enemies of liberal democracy and free speech, using intimidation and out-right violence. Antifa's claims to moral justification disgust me.
 
Sweden said:
As, probably, the only one around here who was a refugee from fascists and subsequently bombed and rocketed by fascists I have an opinion. Antifa - we have them here in Sweden too - are thugs and bully boys who would be entirely at home in the Nazi Brown Shirts. They are enemies of liberal democracy and free speech, using intimidation and out-right violence. Antifa's claims to moral justification disgust me.
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I agree with you, fighting fascist does not mean you are justified in becoming the monster you fight. Hate breeds hate.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
If saying the wrong thing is reason to employ violence now, as it seems to be, does that mean that I once again can slug my woman when she gets mouthy?

If not why not?

This is for anybody.
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No, the Idea is wrong. You hit her, she would be justified in shooting you.

Nothing justifies violence but defense against violence.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
If saying the wrong thing is reason to employ violence now, as it seems to be, does that mean that I once again can slug my woman when she gets mouthy?

If not why not?

This is for anybody.
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Wait, what?
 
Slingshot Bob said:
Just curious, how about sympathizers?
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I prefer seeing what I saw in Boston today, 50,000 people peacefully marching for inclusion to overwhelm the nonsensical chants of haters. But, if it came to a a physical fight and a need for violence, I'd fight with antifa not the Nazis.

So, is that being an antifa sympathizer? Maybe. Anti fascist trumps Nazi.

But, do I like anarchists who throw **** through windows, assault peaceful people holding signs and burn American flags just to burn them? No. I hate those ****ers almost as much as I do Nazis.
 
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