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From being very liberal to being moderately conservative

ataraxia said:
Making sure all our children have some opportunity at having food, clean water, shelter, a basic education, and access to healthcare, is "rewarding failure"?
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Rewarding children for having children is encouraging failiure.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nope, but rewarding those that placed those children in that condition is. Note that most "safety net" aid is given to the head of household many of which are already known to have made extremely bad decisions and are under little (if any) obligation to change their unsuccessful ways.

Doing the same thing over and over and yet always anticipating a better result is foolish, if not outright insane. We send checks to folks to raise "our" children that would rightly and reasonably be denied permission to adopt a pound puppy. Spending for the "war on poverty" (aka the "safety net") constantly increases yet the percentage in poverty has remained relatively constant (since 1966) at between 12% and 15% of the population - perhaps the current solution is really just part of the problem.
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WOW who died and made you the reproductive police??
Should we spay and neuter all that don't meet your criteria??
Do you think you legislate stupidity?? Good luck with that.
But liberals are fascist..................allrighty then..........:twisted::twisted:
 
JBG said:
How about we agree to disagree here?

Not really. I don't need someone to tell me that it's safer to have a phone mounted on my car's windshield (so that when touching the glass one is not holding the phone) is safer than placing it in the palm of your hand to hit the forward button for the next song. I don't need someone to tell me that the maximum safe speed on a straight, two or three lane each way divided highway with little traffic is 55 mph. I don't need someone to force schoolchildren to walk through a metal detector in schools across the country because one deranged near-teen shoots up a school somewhere.

I don't need someone to tell a police officer that a solidly built, 6'8", 300 lb. 17 year old with a belligerent countenance who disobeys orders not to walk down the center of the street is "unarmed" and therefore perfectly safe. Finally I don't need for the U.S. to go to the U.N. for permission to defend itself against a nuclear Democratic People's Republic of Korea. Or that I should share a bathroom with a female that considers itself to be a male.
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........and we don't need the "right" to legislate someone's sex lives.........we don't need the "right" to tell us how to worship...........
 
jghiretire said:
WOW who died and made you the reproductive police??
Should we spay and neuter all that don't meet your criteria??
Do you think you legislate stupidity?? Good luck with that.
But liberals are fascist..................allrighty then..........:twisted::twisted:
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Nice straw men there, Skippy. ;)
 
JBG said:
Lots of people in Europe considered Jews oven fodder. Lots of people in the U.S. thought that blacks, then called Negroes, should be kept apart from general society.
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..and apparently still do.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Nice straw men there, Skippy. ;)
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Why is that a straw man.. you call the liberals fascists for enacting laws that attempt to keep us from killing ourselves - that's bad - but legislating reproductive issues is ok because ???

Keep trying to shoot that down...........skippy.........
 
JBG said:
Liberalism is fascistic since they want to control how we use our cell phones, how we place children in cars, and how we dispose of garbage.
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Conservatives want to control women's bodies and tell people what they can/cannot smoke.

However, that doesn't make them "fascists."

I don't think you understand what fascism is.
 
NIMBY said:
HHH would have been elected if Nixon had not treasonously interfered in peace talks during the 1968 election .
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That is irrelevant to the point of the Democratic Party moved from Liberalism to the Progressive Movement.
 
jimbo said:
Or you get grant getting "scientists" that start with a premise and work backward tweaking their models as they go to arrive at the desired result. Then apply for more grants to figure out why they were wrong.
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I don't think there is any industry where more people outside of that industry think they know what is 'really going on' than that of science. Why should I hold your opinion/speculations higher than the studies of thousands of scientists?
 
ataraxia said:
I think the thinking goes something like this: if any fact means there has to be government intervention, it must be wrong. You start with the fact that we cannot have a government that does anything, and then work your way back from that to what the facts must be.
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The thinking mirriors atethist thinking. We reject religious like orthodoxy in the absence of the ability to verify the claims being made. You all want to be Noah like and build your arks for the impending flood that your diety told you is coming, be my guest. Your irrational fears are not my burden and I will be attending your church just because you think I have too. I dont answer my door for jehovah witness and climate alarmists alike.

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk
 
JBG said:
Then explain to the boat people or the victims of the Khmer Rouge about this splendid "political movement." Or the people imprisoned in the DPRK. Are people fleeing into DPRK, Vietnam or the Khmer Republic?

I will look for the news clippings but I recall (since it was a day or two before school started) watching the TV in horror as some politicians waffled on the Olympic Massacre in particular.

He died at age 47. It was a tragedy but the one bright spot was that his last day of work was December 8, 1972 and he died four weeks later, to the day, of a metastasis of cancer that was unsuccessfully operated on over Labor Day Weekend 1971.
In spite of his becoming an anti-Semite? Or worse, he always was one and hid it.

The Soviet Union is dead. It sounds like the debt investment had a good payoff.

We agree to disagree. See my post just above.
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:roll: the bold

Jimmy Carter, Barack Obama and the Jews - POLITICO Magazine

For many American Jews, it’s hard to recall that it was also Carter who—through vision, hard work and indomitable will—forged a singular agreement that allowed Israel to keep peace with its Arab neighbors for nearly four decades and, more importantly, to use that halcyon time to advance economically and transcend the Arab nations in military and technological strength, creating a world where today Israel no longer has to fear a traditional military attack by any Arab enemy. That agreement, Carter’s 1979 Camp David accord with Egypt—one of the great triumphs of American diplomacy in the 20th century—saved Israel from the main existential threat that had shadowed the Jewish state since its founding in 1948. Does that sound like the legacy of anti-Semite?
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NIMBY said:
You're forgetting about a little thing called Russian soldiers in Hanoi and Haiphong. I can't talk to my older Vietnam friends about it any more since they're all dead. Theoretically, we should have thrown a right hook at Haiphong as MacArthur did at Inchon and Swartzkopf did at Desert Storm. LBJ was afraid of a nuclear war and Nixon treasonously undermined his peace talks during the 1968 election, killing 22,000 more USA soldiers unnecessarily.
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I dealt with Tricky Dick Nixon above. And I agree with you on the handling of the war. Either we're in or we're out. You don't uselessly make cannon fodder out of our citizens. On the other hand how many "stop the war" placards targeted Hanoi? Surely they also had responsibility to "stop the war." Leaving South Vietnam alone would have been a pretty good start.

NIMBY said:
Today Gops are still against Civil Rights and Voting Rights and State's rights on social issues.
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Some are. Some aren't

NIMBY said:
GOPs nonsensically ignore states like Louisiana that are sinking due to rising sea levels. You may live long enough to see the Arctic ice completely disappear, going from reflection of infrared radiation to absorbing IR very quickly. The warm Gulf Stream will then be cut off, plunging Europe into an ice age, soon to be followed by the rest of us.

GOPs stupidly hang on to fossil fuels while the intelligent common sense first world Nations go to maglev, solar, and on to fusion at ITER and W X-7 .
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And throwing billions into a Climate Adjustment Fund to fill Swiss bank accounts is going to save Louisiana, the ice caps and G-d knows what else?

MrWonka said:
Where exactly is this imaginary bill liberals have put forward to control your cell phone?
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New York's texting law. Part of NYVTL Section 1225-3 provides that "(b) "Using" shall mean holding a portable electronic device while viewing, taking or transmitting images, playing games, or, for the purpose of present or future communication: performing a command or request to access a world wide web page, composing, sending, reading, viewing, accessing, browsing, transmitting, saving or retrieving e-mail, text messages, instant messages, or other electronic data." I git the "next song" button on a playlist and got nailed. Fortunately I was able to plead it down. This was basically the same operation as changing the station on an old-fashioned car radio. Back in the day no one would have stood for this kind of regulation.


MrWonka said:
Making sure children are safe from their often times reckless parents decision making is fascism?
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How did you and I survive in the pre-car seat era? or with jungle gyms among the playground equipment?

MrWonka said:
How you dispose of garbage effects the lives of other people. If you're just dumping your filth in a nearby creek that **** flows down stream and makes water undrinkable for your neighbor.
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What do you think happens to meticulously separated recycling materials when they leave your plastic bin? Hint, watch how they're placed in the truck and in which truck they're placed.


MrWonka said:
Do you know how much money the average Scientist makes? If these people are so brilliant as to be able to coordinate a lie among thousands of scientist around the world in unison why wouldn't they pick a more lucrative lie?
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Some funding is better than none.

Al Gore ain't exactly poor.

MrWonka said:
Scientists could get paid to study anything. If global warming wasn't real why wouldn't they just go study something else? Oil companies, and coal companies have billions of dollars invested in their fossil fuel empire. Don't you think they would be a bit more motivated to try and protect that empire with lies? I mean it's not like there's some billion dollar science company that virtually every scientist in the world works for and has stock in here.
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Global warming research is a wet dream for many. It's a chance to tell others what to do, to create a massive intergovernmental infrastructure, and to try to dissolve national boundaries and distinctions. The climate adjustment fund is a great way to siphon off funds countries we don't recognize such as DPRK.
 
jghiretire said:
WOW who died and made you the reproductive police??
Should we spay and neuter all that don't meet your criteria??
Do you think you legislate stupidity?? Good luck with that.
But liberals are fascist..................allrighty then..........:twisted::twisted:
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jghiretire said:
........and we don't need the "right" to legislate someone's sex lives.........we don't need the "right" to tell us how to worship...........
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First of all people under 18 are not adults and we can and should regulate them. Second of all when we're all paying for the unlimited recreational sex the payers have a place at the table.
 
Geoist said:
I don't think there is any industry where more people outside of that industry think they know what is 'really going on' than that of science. Why should I hold your opinion/speculations higher than the studies of thousands of scientists?
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You shouldn't, nor any less. I observe, not model. In 50 years the Virginia low lying counties are still above water. Boulder Co still gets 100% of their water from Arapahoe Glacier. Got up this morning and took a deep breath. Didn't die or even cough. Put gas in my car. Half the price of a couple years ago. Had food. Lots of food. All of which I expected to happen 30 years ago. Maybe you should pay more attention to me.
 
jghiretire said:
Why is that a straw man.. you call the liberals fascists for enacting laws that attempt to keep us from killing ourselves - that's bad - but legislating reproductive issues is ok because ???

Keep trying to shoot that down...........skippy.........
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Except for the fact that I never made that (bolded above) assertion or made any reproductive legislation proposals you are spot on. ;)
 
JBG said:
New York's texting law. "next song" button on a playlist and got nailed.
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So they're not telling you how to use your cell phone, just telling you that you have to pay attention to the road in front of you when you're driving. Distracted driving is the single biggest cause of deadly traffic accidents. Many experts have said that texting while driving is actually more dangerous than drinking and driving. Why don't you have a mount on your dash board for your phone?

JBG said:
How did you and I survive in the pre-car seat era? or with jungle gyms among the playground equipment?
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The fact that many people survived a thing doesn't mean it was the optimal thing for parents to do. Plenty of young children have been killed because they were not properly strapped in to a their seat when an accident happened. The fact that the majority of us weren't involved in car accidents as children does not mean that we would have survived if we'd been in one. To operate under the assumption that your child is safe just because you aren't going to get into an accident is ridiculously arrogant.

JBG said:
What do you think happens to meticulously separated recycling materials when they leave your plastic bin? Hint, watch how they're placed in the truck and in which truck they're placed.
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Where are the laws liberals passed requiring you to separate these materials let alone recycle at all in the first place? Most recycling plants have ways of separating these materials, but it's a lot easier if you just take the 2 extra seconds to put it in the correct bin in the first place.

JBG said:
Some funding is better than none.
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But they're such good liars and manipulators. They could easily get funding for just about anything. Hell if they're as good as you say they are they should really be salespeople they'd probably make more money than they do as scientists.

JBG said:
Al Gore ain't exactly poor.
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Al Gore was wealthy long before he put out a documentary. Why were so many scientists willing to give him all this free data to use to help him argument? Why doesn't Al Gore just invest in fossil fuels? Why make up this lie when he could have just invested his money in oil or coal? Do any of the climate change deniers make money off documentaries? Who makes more money a billion dollar oil company or the producer of a documentary?

JBG said:
It's a chance to tell others what to do,
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But you can always tell others what to do. Why not tell them to do something better? Self help gurus and dietitians tell people what to do. Why make stuff up when you can just as easily convey the facts? You get paid about the same don't you?

JBG said:
create a massive intergovernmental infrastructure,
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The UN already existed. So did Nato. We already had trade agreements with large swaths of the world.
 
JBG said:
I somehow don't think that Richard Milhous Nixon, or Ted "I lost control of myself on a hot night in July 1969" are moral examplars for anyone. Both were scum of the earth.
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That's fine. But we are talking about political positions of parties here, not personal moral failings of individual politicians. Like I said, Richard Nixon, as a Republican, was working with Ted Kennedy, a Democratic senator, on universal healthcare. And the very conservative Heritage Foundation first came up with the idea of a plan of national universal healthcare with an individual mandate, back in 1989. In fact, that plan was proudly on their website up until, oh.... 2009, when a certain Democrat dared to propose it. Then it somehow mysteriously disappeared off their website, and became evil Kenyan Muslim Communist Nazi fascism.

The Republican party has gone completely rabid and off the deep end since then. It's not the Democrats who have changed.

"This is not your father's Republican party. This is not even Mitt Romney's father's Republican party."
-Joe Biden
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jimbo said:
You shouldn't, nor any less. I observe, not model. In 50 years the Virginia low lying counties are still above water. Boulder Co still gets 100% of their water from Arapahoe Glacier. Got up this morning and took a deep breath. Didn't die or even cough. Put gas in my car. Half the price of a couple years ago. Had food. Lots of food. All of which I expected to happen 30 years ago. Maybe you should pay more attention to me.
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You know, scientists tell me that I'm made of lots of tiny atoms. Have you? Crazy. Never seen one in my life. I think all this "atom" nonsense has to be some Chinese hoax too. All those scientists probably made all this stuff up to get grant money from the government.
 
ataraxia said:
You know, scientists tell me that I'm made of lots of tiny atoms. Have you? Crazy. Never seen one in my life. I think all this "atom" nonsense has to be some Chinese hoax too. All those scientists probably made all this stuff up to get grant money from the government.
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No, but atom scientists are not telling me that if I don't stop eating corn I'm going to drown in atoms.

What I know is that none of the dire predictions have happened. But what I hear is that now those predictions will happen tomorrow instead of yesterday. What those atom scientists have been telling me is that the climate has changed drastically at least six times before man, let along fossil fuel usage, were even around. What the doomsdayists are telling me is we have 20 years, or 2, or 200, or we're already past the tipping point. What I see is blue skies. Cleaner than the ones I grew up with, and ocean heights about the same distance from the land height as 50 years ago.
 
JBG said:
I was born in 1957. Obviously when I was six I didn't understand politics. I did understand the radio stories about "Negroes" being met with fire-hoses and attack dogs for the sin of going to school. I vaguely understood the aspirational and prostest songs such as "Blowin' in the Wind," "If I Had a Hammer," "We Shall Overcome" and "Where Have All the Flowers Gone." As the sixties went on I was on the side of "peace" in Vietnam and of the Earth Day movement. I supported the Pentagon Papers publication. All of this was between ages six and 14.

This began to change with the Lod Airport massacre in May 1972 in Tel Aviv and the Olympics Massacre that same year. The condemnations of both atrocities by liberal politicians was mixed with "understanding" of Arab anger. I felt at the time that a senseless murder was a senseless murder. Still, one of the last things I did with my father was distribute literature for the McGovern campaign on November 5, 1972, two days before the election.

My father was a staunch liberal. His death on January 5, 1973 really set my mind free politically. I started liking the "cornball" country music he detested. I didn't like to admit to my friends that I rather liked Gordon Sinclair's "The Americans" which was on AM radio, if I recall correctly, in April and May 1973. White I thrilled to Nixon's travails that spring, the following summer and winter and his resignation in August 1974, I supported the Nixon Pardon. And I may add, alone in my high school.

While I voted for Jimmy Carter in 1976, and even going to the Democratic Convention with a press pass, I found his growing affection for left-wing causes painful. I voted for him in 1980, mostly out of fear of the novelty and dramatic change that Reagan threatened. I actually did likewise in 2016, voting for Clinton. But I correctly predicted that deregulation, in particular decontrol of oil and gasoline prices, would lower costs for Americans. As liberals began to champion nonsense causes such as "global warming" and became increasingly aligned with forces that wanted to harm the U.S. I almost completely parted company with what misguided people call "liberalism." Frankly it is control-freak fascism with a politically correct name.
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If you were using the word liberal as it was over centuries, conservatives would be the same.
 
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