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The source of Hysteria

celticwar17 said:
I know we did for sure in 1996.
And we interfered in the Ukraine political issue that involved Russia....
Putin accused the U.S. of meddling in 2012....
Apparently Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University, has amounted a database where the U.S. has politically interfered in politics and elections of others countries at least 81 times.

I'm sure we have done more, but haven't been caught doing so. If the CIA found it all feasible/possible, without hesitation they would knock Putin out of power if there was a better alternative.

And the U.S. is no stranger to hacking Nuclear sites software and firmware of countries like China/Russia/Iran.... Imagine the craze if that was detected against us?
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vegas giants said:
We are talking about illegal interference in a Russian election. Its not there
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Guys, whether or not we've interfered in Russian elections over the past 20 years - it's irrelevant when Putin either jails or murders his opposition.
 
Conaeolos said:
I think in discussions on the topic I finally figure out why so many smart people see this Russian collusion thing where as I do not. I mean beyond the obvious hatred toward him which makes them want him guilty.

I think maybe, people mistakenly believe we are still in a cold war with Russia like we are Iran and North Korea.

Russia is more like a less liked china. A friend-rival (with even more of the latter)

So they are confused why there are any interactions with official Russian ties.

It makes so much more sense.
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It is just anger at not having more power and control. It is always about power and control.
 
joG said:
I think I can agree with you that we are not in a cold war with Russia. Russia is waging nonlinear war on us. That is quite different from the cold one and a sign of much more dangerous times on their way than the Cold War was at any time after the Cuba Crisis had defined the structure of that game for all to see.
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Now this could be an interesting take as it actually has some internal consistency.

We know this based on the CIA report? Why should I assume that is true or that "interference" is at the level of a gesture of war? What is the Russian motivation if it so direct as to risk a war they can not in a foreseeable way win? Explain to me the Russian motive for actively be goating a war.

Tanngrisnir said:
No, it was a direct statement w/no analogy. Just stop.
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conaeolos said:
I think maybe, people mistakenly believe we are still in a cold war with Russia like we are Iran and North Korea.

Russia is more like a less liked china. A friend-rival (with even more of the latter)
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You are right it is a direct statement but unless you think in political-science analysis one talks literally about nations as having friends and rivals you can assume I obviously am relating it to the terms of a personal relationships. The language of diplomatic relations is not common parlance. So I used familiar terms. If you think it sounds crazy why not just strip my term? :: "maybe people mistaken believe it more like our relations with Iran and North Korea and less like a more hostile China."

Second, when I say ”why so many smart people see this Russian collusion’ and conclude “so they are confused why there are any interactions with official Russian ties” clearly I am referring to the level of interactions one can expect a organization(specifically trump) to have with official ties to the foreign government not the level of hostility or the merit of Russian political system.

So put it all together and I am expressing, I’d was thinking “hey if Trump Jr was talking to a lawyer for Iran or North Korea. Or General Flynn speaking at a banquet of the state news network of Iran or North Korea. I’d understand this level of suspicion and too assume it must be collusion or underhanded. I wonder if these people are aware Russian is still currently (although it seems to be changing) in diplomatic relations more like china with more hostility, where there definitely has been underhanded dealings in the past but an infrequent interaction in and of itself has a very large a chance of being innocent as they exist in the normal circles. Although obviously complicated by recent sanctions.”

Tanngrisnir said:
No. No rational adult is doing that. They actually lied, under oath. It's on record. But don't you worry about that.
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You want referring to what having meetings with “Richard Burt”? An American lobbyist who happens to carry a contract for Gasprom or are we talking Flynn again, a speaker of the event being seated with the Russian ambassador at a RT gala?

You may want to investigate what purgery looks like. Umm like say: “I never had sexual relations with that woman”

There a big difference between needing to clarify a past answer to a broad-sweeping question in a testimony(have you even met with a Russian lobbyist) and a person seeking to directly lie on the record to protect them from the truth.

Dittohead not! said:
and what do we conclude from that opinion then?
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(”why so many smart people see this Russian collusion...I think maybe, people mistakenly believe we are still in a cold war with Russia like we are Iran and North Korea. Russia is more like a less liked china. ”)

Which you mocked:

“since the cold war is over, and Russia is not so bad after all, it's OK that the meddled in our presidential election.”

That our relations aren’t as bad as with Iran and North Korea. And so interaction with people with ties to the Russian government can be view as less automatically suspicious as collusion”(?)
 
lurchadams said:
Guys, whether or not we've interfered in Russian elections over the past 20 years - it's irrelevant when Putin either jails or murders his opposition.
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When he says, "lock her (him) up," he really means it and has the power to see that it happens. Trump only dreams about that kind of power.
 
ecofarm said:
After the election, for months, I was 100% sure the "Russia collusion" crap was CT. Then I was 99% sure. Then I was 95% sure. Now I'm 90% sure. I wish the circumstantial evidence would stop mounting.
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It doesn't help that the Administration was denying any Russian connections.. denied that Russians tried to hack or did hack the elections despite tons of intelligence that Russia did.

It doesn't help that the administration can come out and see nothing wrong with meeting with what they are told is a Russian operative that supposedly had information on Hillary Clinton.

Whats the defense"?...
 
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