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The source of Hysteria

eohrnberger said:
Or at least what the 'news' (politically and agenda driven propaganda) is reporting make it appear to be lying.

At this point, one has to legitimately question what being reported as 'truth' and by whom.
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No. No rational adult is doing that. They actually lied, under oath. It's on record.

But don't you worry about that.
 
Conaeolos said:
I didn't say it was okay to interfere in the election. I said its irrational to based on the fact to see trump-russian collusion. But you keep arguing thing that were never said.
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You posted:

I think maybe, people mistakenly believe we are still in a cold war with Russia like we are Iran and North Korea.
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and what do we conclude from that opinion then?
 
Praxas said:
Does that somehow excuse it? Why would you want to be allies with a country that does that to us?
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In Trumpland, two wrongs make it right. But...but...Hillary, she is not Pres, nor is she spinning a meeting which from Trumps own mouth never happened. I applaud your transparency Junior, a year later. If this meeting had been transparent much sooner, the results may have been different in Nov 2016, we will never know. All we can do is wait for the results of the investigations, then prosecute were necessary.
 
Conaeolos said:
I don't disagree with the first statement. But you understand we are not in a cold war with them, yes?
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Sort of. We are in a proxy war.
 
celticwar17 said:
We do... actually... funny thing you say that xD
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That's fascinating. Can you point out the US Programs interfering in Russian elections? I've never read that history, but would like to.
 
Conaeolos said:
I think in discussions on the topic I finally figure out why so many smart people see this Russian collusion thing where as I do not. I mean beyond the obvious hatred toward him which makes them want him guilty.

I think maybe, people mistakenly believe we are still in a cold war with Russia like we are Iran and North Korea.

Russia is more like a less liked china. A friend-rival (with even more of the latter)

So they are confused why there are any interactions with official Russian ties.

It makes so much more sense.
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Yea you might want to look into Russia and US relations a bit more there guy.
 
cpwill said:
That's fascinating. Can you point out the US Programs interfering in Russian elections? I've never read that history, but would like to.
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I know we did for sure in 1996.
And we interfered in the Ukraine political issue that involved Russia....
Putin accused the U.S. of meddling in 2012....
Apparently Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University, has amounted a database where the U.S. has politically interfered in politics and elections of others countries at least 81 times.

I'm sure we have done more, but haven't been caught doing so. If the CIA found it all feasible/possible, without hesitation they would knock Putin out of power if there was a better alternative.

And the U.S. is no stranger to hacking Nuclear sites software and firmware of countries like China/Russia/Iran.... Imagine the craze if that was detected against us?
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/17/...s-in-foreign-networks-security-firm-says.html
 
lurchadams said:
Sounds like what the crazy right tried to do to Obama for over 8 years. Who can forget the "birther" craze led by guess who? Recall McConnell vowing to make Obama a "one term president" and obstructing any piece of legislation the Democrats tried to pass? This was unprecedented. The difference here is that Trump and his cavalcade of keystone cops keep getting caught in lie after lie and create their OWN chaos. The GOP are in control of everything and could shut down any investigation into Trump they want. The Democrats would be powerless to stop it. I know you'd prefer to blame all your woes on folks with which you disagree, so you should start with the GOP who are chairing all the investigative committees into the Russian interference issues.
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Not quite the same unless you put the majority of the 'news' media into an equally 'crazy left'. That might not even be that far off, come to think of it.

When it's the 'crazy left' media's 'truth' of course they will, but that's by design.

No, I don't blame all the folks with which I disagree, there's a fair amount of self-inflicted damage that Trump does to himself and his own administration, but there's a fair amount of damage that are from other sources, and quite often this is based on bull****.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
What is false about it?
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In an unregulated system it is not a question of general applicability. Implying it is, is a false argument. In such systems it is more about us and them and we are the good guys and need to be as bad as it takes. If you want to have general rules, you must have a robust and believably general power of enforcement in place.
 
celticwar17 said:
I know we did for sure in 1996.
And we interfered in the Ukraine political issue that involved Russia....
Putin accused the U.S. of meddling in 2012....
Apparently Dov Levin of Carnegie Mellon University, has amounted a database where the U.S. has politically interfered in politics and elections of others countries at least 81 times.

I'm sure we have done more, but haven't been caught doing so. If the CIA found it all feasible/possible, without hesitation they would knock Putin out of power if there was a better alternative.

And the U.S. is no stranger to hacking Nuclear sites software and firmware of countries like China/Russia/Iran.... Imagine the craze if that was detected against us?
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/17/...s-in-foreign-networks-security-firm-says.html
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We are talking about illegal interference in a Russian election. Its not there
 
vegas giants said:
We are talking about illegal interference in a Russian election. Its not there
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We may have interfered in Russian elections, and we may not have. It's certain that the US has meddled in the internal politics of other nations, so it's not a stretch to think we have done so in Russia as well, but so what? Does that mean we want to excuse Russia, or anyone else, from interference in our national politics? That's like saying, "Hey, we know you're a Russian spy, but we have spies in Russia as well, so it's OK." Of course Russia is spying on the US and vice versa. That doesn't mean we want to just let them spy.
 
joG said:
In an unregulated system it is not a question of general applicability. Implying it is, is a false argument. In such systems it is more about us and them and we are the good guys and need to be as bad as it takes. If you want to have general rules, you must have a robust and believably general power of enforcement in place.
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Ok, but i'm not sure what any of that has to do with the fact that the US has a history of interfering in foreign elections and launching outright coups, as well.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
Ok, but i'm not sure what any of that has to do with the fact that the US has a history of interfering in foreign elections and launching outright coups, as well.
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Of course we do. But not against a world power
 
eohrnberger said:
Not quite the same unless you put the majority of the 'news' media into an equally 'crazy left'. That might not even be that far off, come to think of it.

When it's the 'crazy left' media's 'truth' of course they will, but that's by design.

No, I don't blame all the folks with which I disagree, there's a fair amount of self-inflicted damage that Trump does to himself and his own administration, but there's a fair amount of damage that are from other sources, and quite often this is based on bull****.
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Clinton deregulated the FCC. There were 50 some odd comapnies on the US media landscape back in the 1980s. Now there are 6 multinational corporations involved in ~90 of what americans come to "know".

Your media machine is nothing but corporate state PR, and the more incoherence, chaos, anxiety, division and distraction the better for the power structure.
 
I, for one, am so tired of all this Russia stuff - over and over, for me it's deja vu. In the 60's it was "the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming", everyday. You got up in the morning and checked under your bed for Russians, bomb shelters were the order of the day, you did duck and cover drills in school to somehow protect yourself from a nuclear bomb. Quite frankly I am far more concerned about our "friends" in China.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
You could use google and see whats out there. Either way, for US to be so righteously indignant about it, is extreme hypocrisy.

Do the US's actions in other countries, concern you?
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I did. There is no evidence. What else should I do.

Both superpowers have been interfering in elections since the early 1900's. But not with superpowers. That is how the game is played
 
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