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The source of Hysteria

Conaeolos said:
I think in discussions on the topic I finally figure out why so many smart people see this Russian collusion thing where as I do not. I mean beyond the obvious hatred toward him which makes them want him guilty.

I think maybe, people mistakenly believe we are still in a cold war with Russia like we are Iran and North Korea.

Russia is more like a less liked china. A friend-rival (with even more of the latter)

So they are confused why there are any interactions with official Russian ties.

It makes so much more sense.
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Russia is not a Frenemy.
 
Conaeolos said:
I think in discussions on the topic I finally figure out why so many smart people see this Russian collusion thing where as I do not. I mean beyond the obvious hatred toward him which makes them want him guilty.

I think maybe, people mistakenly believe we are still in a cold war with Russia like we are Iran and North Korea.

Russia is more like a less liked china. A friend-rival (with even more of the latter)

So they are confused why there are any interactions with official Russian ties.

It makes so much more sense.
Click to expand...


You obviously know very little of European History. Russia is a country with a LONG history of expansion and contracting. Putin is an old USSR soldier, and hankers for a new Russian empire, at the expense of its neighbors, heard of the Crimea, or the Ukraine? He has interfered in Western Elections for a few years, not just here in the USA. Hell, the Netherlands went back to paper ballots and counting by hand, for fear of outside meddling. So yes, its not a cold war, but Putin is no ones friend, and will continue to destabilize those countries that wish to curtail his and Russia's expansion. I tutor history part time, consider this lesson a freebee. Never trust the Russians unless it can be verified.
 
Conaeolos said:
I think in discussions on the topic I finally figure out why so many smart people see this Russian collusion thing where as I do not. I mean beyond the obvious hatred toward him which makes them want him guilty.

I think maybe, people mistakenly believe we are still in a cold war with Russia like we are Iran and North Korea.

Russia is more like a less liked china. A friend-rival (with even more of the latter)

So they are confused why there are any interactions with official Russian ties.

It makes so much more sense.
Click to expand...

and since the cold war is over, and Russia is not so bad after all, it's OK that the meddled in our presidential election. They're good guys now, so who cares, right?
 
vegas giants said:
The extent of the interference is classified
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Agreed. So that means you should assume it was more than what was known? Why?

JamesBY said:
Russia is not a Frenemy.
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Okay, but you understand we have diplomatic ties. That Americans and Russians do business.

We are not in a cold war with them like Iran or North Korea.


yankintx said:
You obviously know very little of European History.
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Based on?

Russia is a country with a LONG history of expansion and contracting.
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Agreed

Putin is an old USSR soldier, and hankers for a new Russian empire, at the expense of its neighbors, heard of the Crimea, or the Ukraine?
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Agreed. LOL and yes, I do not like under a rock.

He has interfered in Western Elections for a few years, not just here in the USA.
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Define what you mean by interfered. But no I not debating that fact.

Hell, the Netherlands went back to paper ballots and counting by hand, for fear of outside meddling.
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They are probably wise.

So yes, its not a cold war
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Bingo!!!

but Putin is no ones friend
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Okay.

and will continue to destabilize those countries that wish to curtail his and Russia's expansion.
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Again, You mean pursue what he views as Russian interests. Yes I’d expect that in a Russian leader.

I tutor history part time, consider this lesson a freebee. Never trust the Russians unless it can be verified.
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Um, Okay. Well thanks? But in no way has anything I said not been verified. Nor is it based on Russian say so.

It is a demostratable fact. You can interact with Russians as an American and not be committing a crime or collusion. If your dealing with Iran or North Korea, the likelihood not so high. See the difference?
 
Dittohead not! said:
and since the cold war is over, and Russia is not so bad after all, it's OK that the meddled in our presidential election. They're good guys now, so who cares, right?
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I didn't say it was okay to interfere in the election. I said its irrational to based on the fact to see trump-russian collusion. But you keep arguing thing that were never said.
 
Conaeolos said:
Agreed. So that means you should assume it was more than what was known? Why?


Okay, but you understand we have diplomatic ties. That Americans and Russians do business.

We are not in a cold war with them like Iran or North Korea.



Based on?


Agreed


Agreed. LOL and yes, I do not like under a rock.


Define what you mean by interfered. But no I not debating that fact.


They are probably wise.


Bingo!!!


Okay.


Again, You mean pursue what he views as Russian interests. Yes I’d expect that in a Russian leader.


Um, Okay. Well thanks? But in no way has anything I said not been verified. Nor is it based on Russian say so.

It is a demostratable fact. You can interact with Russians as an American and not be committing a crime or collusion. If your dealing with Iran or North Korea, the likelihood not so high. See the difference?
Click to expand...

You asked what was the extent of the interference. It is classified
 
Conaeolos said:
Agreed. So that means you should assume it was more than what was known? Why?


Okay, but you understand we have diplomatic ties. That Americans and Russians do business.

We are not in a cold war with them like Iran or North Korea.



Based on?


Agreed


Agreed. LOL and yes, I do not like under a rock.


Define what you mean by interfered. But no I not debating that fact.


They are probably wise.


Bingo!!!


Okay.


Again, You mean pursue what he views as Russian interests. Yes I’d expect that in a Russian leader.


Um, Okay. Well thanks? But in no way has anything I said not been verified. Nor is it based on Russian say so.

It is a demostratable fact. You can interact with Russians as an American and not be committing a crime or collusion. If your dealing with Iran or North Korea, the likelihood not so high. See the difference?
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Ah your post, duh.
 
After the election, for months, I was 100% sure the "Russia collusion" crap was CT. Then I was 99% sure. Then I was 95% sure. Now I'm 90% sure. I wish the circumstantial evidence would stop mounting.
 
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Conaeolos said:
I think in discussions on the topic I finally figure out why so many smart people see this Russian collusion thing where as I do not. I mean beyond the obvious hatred toward him which makes them want him guilty.

I think maybe, people mistakenly believe we are still in a cold war with Russia like we are Iran and North Korea.

Russia is more like a less liked china. A friend-rival (with even more of the latter)

So they are confused why there are any interactions with official Russian ties.

It makes so much more sense.
Click to expand...

I think I can agree with you that we are not in a cold war with Russia. Russia is waging nonlinear war on us. That is quite different from the cold one and a sign of much more dangerous times on their way than the Cold War was at any time after the Cuba Crisis had defined the structure of that game for all to see.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
Do you think the US does not engage in election interference in many countrys? Or outright coups?
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Does that somehow excuse it? Why would you want to be allies with a country that does that to us?
 
Praxas said:
Does that somehow excuse it? Why would you want to be allies with a country that does that to us?
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The US waging in election interference in another country's affairs does in no way shape or form excuse the Trump Crime Family from doing in the US with Russian help.
 
Slingshot Bob said:
Do you think the US does not engage in election interference in many countrys? Or outright coups?
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That is a false argument, but interesting. Why would that be of significance in the way we treat the enemy? Russia defined us as the enemy?
 
vegas giants said:
I await your evidence. I doubt I will get it
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The U.S. is no stranger to interfering in the elections of other countries - LA Times

The U.S. also attempted to sway Russian elections. In 1996, with the presidency of Boris Yeltsin and the Russian economy flailing, President Clinton endorsed a $10.2-billion loan from the International Monetary Fund linked to privatization, trade liberalization and other measures that would move Russia toward a capitalist economy. Yeltsin used the loan to bolster his popular support, telling voters that only he had the reformist credentials to secure such loans, according to media reports at the time. He used the money, in part, for social spending before the election, including payment of back wages and pensions.
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Tanngrisnir said:
And yet the investigations into collusion, interference and financial crimes continue, unhysterically and methodically, and Trump inner circle members keep lying...
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Or at least what the 'news' (politically and agenda driven propaganda) is reporting make it appear to be lying.

At this point, one has to legitimately question what being reported as 'truth' and by whom.
 
vegas giants said:
A loan. Done openly with no secrecy involved. You must be kidding?
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I will have to remember that secrecy is what matters here and not messing around with other countries elections.

Hey Russia, you should have just interfered in the election in the open and then everything would have been ok. :lol:
 
Henrin said:
I will have to remember that secrecy is what matters here and not messing around with other countries elections.

Hey Russia, you should have just interfered in the election in the open and then everything would have been ok. :lol:
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Yes illegal acts are different from legal ones
 
eohrnberger said:
The source of hysteria is little more than a concerted attack by some against a president they didn't want, and desperately want to discredit, delegitimatize, damage, and who's agenda they want to thwart 'by any means necessary', as his agenda, the agenda the US electorate voted for, directly threatens their base of power and control, and they don't like that. They'd much rather be in power and political control, so their reaction, as violent in action as rhetoric as it is, isn't, and wasn't, unforeseeable.
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Sounds like what the crazy right tried to do to Obama for over 8 years. Who can forget the "birther" craze led by guess who? Recall McConnell vowing to make Obama a "one term president" and obstructing any piece of legislation the Democrats tried to pass? This was unprecedented. The difference here is that Trump and his cavalcade of keystone cops keep getting caught in lie after lie and create their OWN chaos. The GOP are in control of everything and could shut down any investigation into Trump they want. The Democrats would be powerless to stop it. I know you'd prefer to blame all your woes on folks with which you disagree, so you should start with the GOP who are chairing all the investigative committees into the Russian interference issues.
 
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Captain Adverse said:
Russia is like any convert to a new ideology after years of repression, an uber-believer in the new ideology.
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This is what's know as 'bull****'. I've actually lived in Russia; I'm quite familiar with how things work there. They are not capitalist.
When the Soviet Union dissolved, Russia became it's most radical opposite...unrestrained Capitalist, what I like to call rapacious Capitalism.
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No. It became beholden to the corruption that was always inherent to it, and subject to strongmen who made things work for themselves and their friends.
Think of them as reflecting the era of the American Robber Barons, led by people mimicking Carnegie, Astor, Mellon, and Morgan.
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It's nothing like that, and far, far more dangerous. You have no idea what you're talking about. They're simply not comparable in any rational manner.
People scrambled for wealth and power, and every former advantage was used to secure a place in the new order.
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Yes, they did. A mafia order. It is a mafia nation.
I see China leaning the same way, but in a more restrained "Socialist" manner using the established system to retain control for the new Communist oligarchs that replaced the revolutionary Maoists.
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Sigh.
 
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