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Majority of republicans say colleges are bad for america (yes, really)

ataraxia said:
That's why they are in college. At least they are doing something about it. Better than these guys who think they already know it all so they don't need no frickin' schooling anymore, right?

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Yes. Thats precisely why they are in college. They are paying 100k to become indoctrinated and to spew **** they know nothing about.

They love you.
 
Conaeolos said:
Do you think your smarter than me or at least that your position on this topic is better than mine? Statistically speaking I can bet I have a significantly higher education level than you. If you have a more rational, evidenced and nuanced position then me though - guess what, you win. In fact, you could in fact be smarter than me. Want to know why? Because today more than any other time in history there are other ways for smart people to learn, to develop and to get educated. Not to mention education doesn’t in fact teach universal critical thinking skills they claim as those are immeasurable. They hope to create those. Universities teach general knowledge and for most in obscure and/or over-specific subjects.
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Translation: You are smarter then me? :lamo:lamo


Get off your high horse dude. Failed ideologue.
 
Cisero said:
Please tell us, what degree do you have ?
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If we were in a serious discussion I’d be happy to discuss my educational experience/credentials and how they relate, however, considering all the replies have only ever mocked me and never even once touched on my suggestion that colleges are starting to do more harm than good. What purpose would that serve? Should I need to prove something to make my suggestion valid? Have I shown some glaring error in my logic (despite barely speaking on the subject) that would indicate I am not knowledgeable on this subject? Or is having an unorthodox opinion enough now and days, speaking again to my point? A repugnant idea based on arrogance and those unable to transfer their ideas from their safe ivory tower to the free-market of ideas.

I do know from a brief encounter with you in another thread, you've indicted there were a lot of differences with education in Switzerland. So I am not sure if I am talking education there. I still know very little about Swiss education.

I do have two masters degree in not too particularly academically rigorous subjects. I additionally have taken a lot of post-secondary courses, observed lectures and participated in studies outside of the obtainment of those degrees in a variety of subjects from the arts to the hard sciences(and even the trades). I love ideas. I love learning. And I have the resources to pursue those where-ever they can be found.

At the end of the day though my arguments should be judged on the merit of their reasoning not who certified them or how much was spent on me to obtain them. I do think I have a good take on this subject as the majority of the people I deal with are educated and successful (including myself) and can speak on what helps and what hurts the process that brought us from emotionally wild young curious children to well-rounded rationed adults.

Probably not an English degree.
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No, as might not surprise anyone here English doesn’t come easily for me. I have a condition called dyslexia which makes it common for me to mistype, have strange grammar and not catch such errors on first reading. My brain fills in gaps allowing my comprehension to outpace the technical without a blink. That said, I could guarantee you I could obtain a English Ph.d by todays standards with nothing more than the intention and if you’ve been to post secondary here you'd know what I mean.

I also have never had a problem discussing complex subjects in English and have a wonderful verbal acumen and vocabulary. Is the claim I can’t understand what others are writing? Is that not what matter more in discussion? Audiences interested in discourse are able to interpret meaning despite the errors, although those errors may no doubt be distracting. I am thankful we have grammar nazi least we depart into chaos, but anyone confident in their intellectual foundations will give one the benefit of the doubt and use human intuition to look past errors with maybe the odd comment to satisfy their inner grammarian.

It's spelled "college". A "collage" is something you do in kindergarten arts class.
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I get their mocking, yes. I appreciate you pointing it out however in case I did not. I don’t care if I made 1000 errors where it is clear what I meant, it's intellectually repugnant and I refuse to give credence to a childish premise. It’s everything wrong with trying to base intelligence on anything but the merit of ones ideas and reasoning. And if experience tells me anything, when a person starts bringing up spelling or grammar errors without other arguments it comes from a complex in their own intelligence not being recognized because of a lack of their own educational achievement due mostly to lacking self-discipline and intellectual honesty.

Many people with educational achievement don’t write, speak or communicate well. Great ideas are often hidden away by poor language choices.

Anyone, who has done any time in college knows there is plenty of time to edit and clarify language especially if ones bored with the ideas. In fact in much of the sciences it is kept to a extreme minimum, then some wonder why a doctors scribble. On a board like this we’re debating ideas not adherence to a common standard or publishing documents which may later be interpreted without us available to clarify. So please tell me why should I pay much attention? Because a few posters would rather focus on that(when they know what I mean) rather then confront their possible ignorance on the topic?

What other language do you speak, if you don't mind me asking ?
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Russian and French.
 
Fruityfact said:
Translation: You are smarter then me? :lamo:lamo


Get off your high horse dude. Failed ideologue.
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Oh no he didn't use "than" cue disregarding the rest of the paragraph. :roll:


PS: it is not "sitting on a high horse" to suggest an idea should stand on the merits of its reasoning. Yours and mine alike. That's insane to suggest. It is literally the opposite of what is being said.
 
Conaeolos said:
What if collages are dumbing kids? I know you don’t believe that but could you agree if that were the case it would be a great bad than good, right?

Do you know the Greek history of the sophist?
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You're probably not going to get a lot of positive interest in this thread.
Many people falsely assume that having a degree means they're educated.

When in reality education is a life long pursuit of reading and asking questions.
Post secondary "education" is just a social signal, by and large, with some occupational training (see doctors, engineers, etc.)
It signals to employers that you're not a complete imbecile, but not much else in my opinion.
 
VanceMack said:
Yes. Thats precisely why they are in college. They are paying 100k to become indoctrinated and to spew **** they know nothing about.

They love you.
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Yes! That's why we need clear thinking, informed Americans who are not brainwashed, kinda like these Trump supporters:

 
ataraxia said:
Yes! That's why we need clear thinking, informed Americans who are not brainwashed, kinda like these Trump supporters:

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:lamo

You actually think your position is favorable knowing that 'college educated' morons are no different...but carry 1.4 trillion in debt for their stupidity.

They love you.
 
Conservative said:
So it is rude to provide actual facts that counter your opinions and predictions? Deflection? That is what you are doing from the actual facts
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So you were called out for being rude, and true to form you deflect. Your opinion and predictions are what they are, only predictions and opinion.

The reason conservatives don't like colleges is that they are defunct in critical thinking skills.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
You're probably not going to get a lot of positive interest in this thread.
Many people falsely assume that having a degree means they're educated.

When in reality education is a life long pursuit of reading and asking questions.
Post secondary "education" is just a social signal, by and large, with some occupational training (see doctors, engineers, etc.)
It signals to employers that you're not a complete imbecile, but not much else in my opinion.
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I could not agree more.

I’ve heard the argument by those more suspicious of the left than myself and it seem to have been given some credence in this thread.

Progressive ideology may actually support diluting formal education standards as to the point of being worthless exactly to encourage it to be a poor measure of higher than average intelligence which then protects against what it views as discrimination in the employment market.

Since vigorous testing has been all but settled to be a legal minefield in employment there no direct alternative (Griggs v. Duke Power Co.) And there is no doubt in my mind some employers use higher education as a measure of intelligence. I do hope we figure out an alternative soon as if employers are barred from discriminating meritocracy in the noble quest for removing arbitrary discrimination based on stigma for too long. We are in for some rough times.
 
JamesBY said:
So you were called out for being rude, and true to form you deflect. Your opinion and predictions are what they are, only predictions and opinion.

The reason conservatives don't like colleges is that they are defunct in critical thinking skills.
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No, sorry, but the data I posted IS FACT, it actually happened, it is history. You don't seem to comprehend the concept of fact vs prediction. You aren't getting any support from your cohorts here which ought to tell you something.

I see no evidence in your critical thinking in this thread. Would love to know why history isn't factual but predictions of the future are??
 
Conservative said:
No, sorry, but the data I posted IS FACT, it actually happened, it is history. You don't seem to comprehend the concept of fact vs prediction. You aren't getting any support from your cohorts here which ought to tell you something.

I see no evidence in your critical thinking in this thread. Would love to know why history isn't factual but predictions of the future are??
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You don't understand what is fact and how it is used. You are demonstrating why conservatives don't like college. I post several minutes ago and all you can do is saying my "cohorts" are not supporting me. Lame. Oh, please keep this up.
 
Conaeolos said:
I could not agree more.

I’ve heard the argument by those more suspicious of the left than myself and it seem to have been given some credence in this thread.

Progressive ideology may actually support diluting formal education standards as to the point of being worthless exactly to encourage it to be a poor measure of higher than average intelligence which then protects against what it views as discrimination in the employment market.

Since vigorous testing has been all but settled to be a legal minefield in employment there no direct alternative (Griggs v. Duke Power Co.) And there is no doubt in my mind some employers use higher education as a measure of intelligence. I do hope we figure out an alternative soon as if employers are barred from discriminating meritocracy in the noble quest for removing arbitrary discrimination based on stigma for too long. We are in for some rough times.
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I'm not sure if you ever looked into the history of American education, particularly primary education.
It's a fairly interesting and somewhat horrifying story.
In the end though, it and the current system has largely driven me to be completely opposed to public education (both primary and post secondary), with the exception of the poor and single parents.
It's just too much of an incentive and opportunity to abuse people and engage in social experimentation, without the consent of the attending parties.

To add a bit to what I previously said, a lot of people will be hostile to criticism of post secondary education, because again, as a social signal, they also derive part of their self worth from having their name tacked on to that diploma.
 
JamesBY said:
You don't understand what is fact and how it is used. You are demonstrating why conservatives don't like college. I post several minutes ago and all you can do is saying my "cohorts" are not supporting me. Lame. Oh, please keep this up.
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Will be happy to keep it up posting how college apparently failed you in that you don't understand the difference between a fact and a prediction. the data I post is officially fact and generated by actual data. The taxpayers pay debt service on that information. a Prediction is something that hasn't happened yet. Please seek some help understanding the difference.
 
JamesBY said:
You don't understand what is fact and how it is used.
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Based on what you seem to label facts verse un-evidenced statements, I’d be very curious for what you think they are and how they are used?

You are demonstrating why conservatives don't like college.
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Unorthodox opinions? You brought up voter fraud has in some good studies shown an almost zero prosecution record yet if you accept voter fraud is possible then guess what happen if new evidence not considered before comes into view? When you cite a study the conclusions are based on certain assumptions and certain facts(evidence) and so when someone cites an alternative fact (from those looked at in those studies/models etc) it might indeed bring clarity to the conclusions of that study. There may in fact be contradictory-evidence which show those conclusions are limited. You don't get to just dismiss the unorthodox view. That is not what critical thinking means.....the "critical" refers to yourself!
 
Conservative said:
Will be happy to keep it up posting how college apparently failed you in that you don't understand the difference between a fact and a prediction. the data I post is officially fact and generated by actual data. The taxpayers pay debt service on that information. a Prediction is something that hasn't happened yet. Please seek some help understanding the difference.
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You want to insist that your analysis is a fact, and when I point that out, you attack me personally. No biggie. A CBO prediction is a fact at the moment it is made. Do you understand the definition of fact?

You don't like the CBO says the health bill is a cancer on American society. Too bad.
 
Conaeolos said:
Based on what you seem to label facts verse un-evidenced statements, I’d be very curious for what you think they are and how they are used?


Unorthodox opinions? You brought up voter fraud has in some good studies shown an almost zero prosecution record yet if you accept voter fraud is possible then guess what happen if new evidence not considered before comes into view? When you cite a study the conclusions are based on certain assumptions and certain facts(evidence) and so when someone cites an alternative fact (from those looked at in those studies/models etc) it might indeed bring clarity to the conclusions of that study. There may in fact be contradictory-evidence which show those conclusions are limited. You don't get to just dismiss the unorthodox view. That is not what critical thinking means.....the "critical" refers to yourself!
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Did you go to Liberty University? Of course I can dismiss an unorthodox view as readily as an orthodox view if the critical facts don't link the premise to the conclusion. Look up critical thinking, please.
 
JamesBY said:
You want to insist that your analysis is a fact, and when I point that out, you attack me personally. No biggie. A CBO prediction is a fact at the moment it is made. Do you understand the definition of fact?

You don't like the CBO says the health bill is a cancer on American society. Too bad.
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The only thing factual about CBO is that are making the PREDICTION, you cannot even be honest with yourself. The CBO has no idea how many people are going to CHOOSE not to purchase healthcare under the GOP plan nor do you. Interesting how that FACT escapes you
 
JamesBY said:
Did you go to Liberty University?
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And again with we are back to this absurd premise ones argument be measured based on one’s university instead of its reasoning.

Of course I can dismiss an unorthodox view as readily as an orthodox view if the critical facts don't link the premise to the conclusion. Look up critical thinking, please.
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If only that is what you were doing.

Take away all the posturing and the only critical statement you made was “you have no evidence”

To
Conservative said:
You are so right, the state that allows for illegals to get a driver's licenses, supports and funds immigration law violations and manages their own elections certainly is going to report voter fraud to the American people? Do you think before you post?
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Which for all your talk of deflection tactics is a tangent of your own creation. As the original post:
Conservative said:
typical liberal who has no problem with the state of California, a state where Illegals are protected, are allowed to have a valid driver's license, to elect our President of the United States. The Electoral College will NOT be amended as the only states that would ever see a candidate would be the big ones. Our Founders got it right, did you take civics?
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And your: “No evidence of significant voter fraud has occurred in thirty years. Peddle the nonsense elsewhere.”

Well lets look at the logic:

Premise A: California protect illegals
Evidence: allows for illegals to get driver's licenses
Evidence: supports and funds immigration law violations

Premise B: California can not be trusted to protect the vote from illegal influence
Evidence: manages their own election
Evidence: Premise A

Alas don’t you know: “No evidence of significant voter fraud has occurred in thirty years”

Your statement has nothing to do with the topic. It is a deflection to try and argue an entirely different subject.

See “No evidence of significant voter fraud has occurred in thirty years” refers to your contention that California can be trusted to protect the vote but does exactly nothing to disprove the evidence of the other premise. Its a self-contained point and has exactly zero to do with the discussion unless you assume your logic is somehow supreme. What you have is two contending premises, not one with no evidence.

Premise C: California can protect the vote
Evidence: “No evidence of significant voter fraud has occurred in thirty years”

Well Premise C is appealing to history (just because something was doesn't mean it always will be) even despite proposing a significant changes in checks and balances. Premise C is based on an educated guess which has a lot of room for error, unless you content voter fraud is easy to detect. Premise B provides objective facts as evidence, which in order to refute you need to clarify(provide context which shows it does not support the premise). So....

So yes you could dismiss a view if the critical facts don't link the premise to the conclusion. You just didn’t do that in any way. You just stuck your thumbs and your ears and shouted your opinion then claimed "no evidence" which you in fact quoted. Unless you dispute those facts, which you make no indication toward. You just shout “no evidence” as if to deny the existence of what is clearly in front of your eyes.
 
^^ You all can squabble all you want. Facts are facts, and that's that. CBO will project and the conservative reject the figures, which changes nothing.

Tis what is.
 
JamesBY said:
^^ You all can squabble all you want. Facts are facts, and that's that. CBO will project and the conservative reject the figures, which changes nothing.

Tis what is.
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Conservative accepts the reality that CBO makes PREDICTIONS, why don't you tell us the accuracy rate of those predications? What did the CBO Predict regarding the Obama stimulus?
 
Conservative said:
Conservative accepts the reality that CBO makes PREDICTIONS, why don't you tell us the accuracy rate of those predications? What did the CBO Predict regarding the Obama stimulus?
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Unimportant. CBO is closer than your guesses; I am quite sure you can't prove differently.
 
JamesBY said:
Unimportant. CBO is closer than your guesses; I am quite sure you can't prove differently.
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BLS.gov, BEA.gov, and Treasury.org do not make guesses, they provide actual data. Still waiting for the accuracy of a PREDICTION? Do you or CBO have this uncanny ability to predict human behavior??
 
Conservative said:
BLS.gov, BEA.gov, and Treasury.org do not make guesses, they provide actual data. Still waiting for the accuracy of a PREDICTION? Do you or CBO have this uncanny ability to predict human behavior??
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You don't, conservative, and the CBO has a much better chance of getting right than you by a million to one.
 
JamesBY said:
You don't, conservative, and the CBO has a much better chance of getting right than you by a million to one.
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Come on, you cannot be this dense, the sites I gave you post ACTUAL data and results, CBO makes predictions and you don't seem to understand the difference. This has to be an act.
 
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