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Epic takedown of Trump by former Mexican President Vincente Fox

haymarket said:
Patience is a virtue. All things come to he who waits.
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Yes, including loss. So at least try to be gracious like any reasonable person when it happens.

Instead of back peddling onto hate, like the rest of the majority.
 
Mason66 said:
WOW, I didn't know my income was going to the 13 families.

I am going to have to get with my accountant to see what is wrong.

Thanks for the heads up.
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You have another explanation for why a country with the same resource base as us and a strong work ethic is a third world country?

See a LOT of very wealthy Mexicans at the high end malls here in San Diego.

Only some of them are obviously drug dealers of some kind. Bumpkins in designer jeans.
 
Mason66 said:
Who owns everything in Mexico.

That is pretty absolute.

Do I not own my car?

Do I not own my house?

Will one of the 13 families come and take my car from me?
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You own property outright in Mexico?
 
What if...? said:
You have another explanation for why a country with the same resource base as us and a strong work ethic is a third world country?

See a LOT of very wealthy Mexicans at the high end malls here in San Diego.

Only some of them are obviously drug dealers of some kind. Bumpkins in designer jeans.
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First of all Mexico is not a third world country. I don't think you know what that means.

If you see a lot of wealthy Mexicans that blows your whole theory out of the water.

They do not all belong to 13 families.

Have you ever been to a big city in Mexico?

I am not sure if it is still true, but not long ago there were more new cars being sold in the capital than babies born. Can that be said of any US city?

By the way, we here in Mexico do not have the type of financing the US has.

If you do finance a car you have to put at least 40% down and the interest rate will be around 35% annually.

Third world countries do not have that kind of business base.
 
Oborosen said:
Yes, including loss. So at least try to be gracious like any reasonable person when it happens.

Instead of back peddling onto hate, like the rest of the majority.
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your post makes no sense as a pretended reply to my statement that you led with.
 
Oborosen said:
All things come to those who wait... "including loss" please try to keep up.
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There is nothing you said that one needs to "keep up" with.

You folks on the Trump right have been whining and crying about proving collision for months now and its has been delivered to you in the last 24 hours on a silver platter.

It has come those who have displayed patience with the investigations and now we have been rewarded with Truth.
 
haymarket said:
There is nothing you said that one needs to "keep up" with.

You folks on the Trump right have been whining and crying about proving collision for months now and its has been delivered to you in the last 24 hours on a silver platter.

It has come those who have displayed patience with the investigations and now we have been rewarded with Truth.
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Truth about what?

That information supposedly gained from a Russian child advocacy lawyer, proves that three anonymous sources have the damning info for all of us to see. When we all know very well just how those anonymous sources have proven for these media sycophants since the election was over. I wonder if anyone will get fired over this "nothing burger" as well.

Also Trump Jr was approached with this offer, and he is not even a government official. It is normal to investigate value in such information during the course of a campaign.

Do non of you even read the full statements, or check the full story before running you're mouths off?

Like I said, Try to keep up.
Or at least back out with some grace.
 
Oborosen said:
Truth about what?

That information supposedly gained from a Russian child advocacy lawyer, proves that three anonymous sources have the damning info for all of us to see. When we all know very well just how those anonymous sources have proven for these media sycophants since the election was over. I wonder if anyone will get fired over this "nothing burger" as well.

Also Trump Jr was approached with this offer, and he is not even a government official. It is normal to investigate value in such information during the course of a campaign.

Do non of you even read the full statements, or check the full story before running you're mouths off?

Like I said, Try to keep up.
Or at least back out with some grace.
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Trump campaign officials at the highest level were invited to a meeting with Russians and told it was part of an Russian government effort to help Trump win the election against Clinton.

They attended and the Russians did indeed help get Trump elected.

This is not rocket science.

We have clear collision at the highest levels of the Trump campaign with the Russians and both sides knew what they were doing.
 
haymarket said:
Trump campaign officials at the highest level were invited to a meeting with Russians and told it was part of an Russian government effort to help Trump win the election against Clinton.

They attended and the Russians did indeed help get Trump elected.

This is not rocket science.

We have clear collision at the highest levels of the Trump campaign with the Russians and both sides knew what they were doing.
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Alright step back, and just think about what you are saying for once. Even Hillary's people met with Russian officials, and they even met with them behind closed doors. So what is to say, I cannot claim collusion on that?
Is it because that one of the two opposing teams won, or was it because that the team you didn't want to win won?

You don't think that she wasn't trying to dig up the exact same dirt on him during his whole campaign do you? Were you even here for that whole Russian prostitute crap that they were claiming on him, and the video about it. Though to be honest that was expected from opposing sides during the whole election, and I should also point out that I have seen nothing about said video myself. Save that it exist. If you are being caught off guard by this information then I suggest you learn a bit more about the political battlefield.

Hell Mitt, and Obama were both trying to dig up more then enough crap about each other during their election runs. Though lets be frank, when you send out an election propaganda video of how Gays shouldn't be in our military... "if you're keeping score that's what lost him the election IMO" Not even taking into account his stance on don't ask, don't tell.

But there is something here that you, and all the little "collusion" theory supporters are missing. Its big, and I am surprised that you haven't seen it yet. So I am going to give you an attempt to guess.

Why is this whole collusion claim a farce? Try to think about it.
 
Oborosen said:
Alright step back, and just think about what you are saying for once. Even Hillary's people met with Russian officials, and they even met with them behind closed doors. So what is to say, I cannot claim collusion on that?
Is it because that one of the two opposing teams won, or was it because that the team you didn't want to win won?

You don't think that she wasn't trying to dig up the exact same dirt on him during his whole campaign do you? Were you even here for that whole Russian prostitute crap that they were claiming on him, and the video about it. Though to be honest that was expected from opposing sides during the whole election, and I should also point out that I have seen nothing about said video myself. Save that it exist. If you are being caught off guard by this information then I suggest you learn a bit more about the political battlefield.

Hell Mitt, and Obama were both trying to dig up more then enough crap about each other during their election runs. Though lets be frank, when you send out an election propaganda video of how Gays shouldn't be in our military... "if you're keeping score that's what lost him the election IMO" Not even taking into account his stance on don't ask, don't tell.

But there is something here that you, and all the little "collusion" theory supporters are missing. Its big, and I am surprised that you haven't seen it yet. So I am going to give you an attempt to guess.

Why is this whole collusion claim a farce? Try to think about it.
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It is not a farce. It is true. And the events of the last 48 hours confirm this in giant block letters as high as the walls of the Grand Canyon.
 
haymarket said:
It is not a farce. It is true. And the events of the last 48 hours confirm this in giant block letters as high as the walls of the Grand Canyon.
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You're not getting it, try to think about it.

Even members of the FBI investigating the collusion mystery, are saying that collusion isn't necessarily considered treason. Even if it shows that Trump Jr went out of his way to go find the information, the Russian side of the party is claiming that they are the only ones with the interest to the presidency. They have no way in proving if the feeling was going both ways.

The media is chasing another dead end, and I honestly believe that Trump is just waiting for them to shoot themselves with this particular gun.
 
Oborosen said:
You're not getting it, try to think about it.

Even members of the FBI investigating the collusion mystery, are saying that collusion isn't necessarily considered treason. Even if it shows that Trump Jr went out of his way to go find the information, the Russian side of the party is claiming that they are the only ones with the interest to the presidency. They have no way in proving if the feeling was going both ways.

The media is chasing another dead end, and I honestly believe that Trump is just waiting for them to shoot themselves with this particular gun.
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Why is a legal finding of treason the bar or standard that must be met for you to see this as a national disaster?
 
haymarket said:
Why is a legal finding of treason the bar or standard that must be met for you to see this as a national disaster?
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And how many people claim national disaster, when it was actually nothing?
 
haymarket said:
It is not a farce. It is true. And the events of the last 48 hours confirm this in giant block letters as high as the walls of the Grand Canyon.
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Its still not a problem they need to look into, we could have had so much done at this point if they would have just decided to work together from the start. Feelings, and broken noses are steering this whole process.
Too bad that no one else see's this may be another gun that the Trump family is handing to the media, so they can shoot themselves with it.
 
Oborosen said:
And how many people claim national disaster, when it was actually nothing?
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Why did you fail to answer my question? again - Why is a legal finding of treason the bar or standard that must be met for you to see this as a national disaster?
 
Oborosen said:
Its still not a problem they need to look into, we could have had so much done at this point if they would have just decided to work together from the start. Feelings, and broken noses are steering this whole process.
Too bad that no one else see's this may be another gun that the Trump family is handing to the media, so they can shoot themselves with it.
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Do you live in the United States of America?
 
haymarket said:
Do you live in the United States of America?
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Yes, and even openly liberal lawyers are saying there is no grounds for treason. Not even anything that could be possibly elevated to such a statement.
 
haymarket said:
Why did you fail to answer my question? again - Why is a legal finding of treason the bar or standard that must be met for you to see this as a national disaster?
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Because it was not a finding of treason, how come you cannot see that?
If you haven't gotten that through you're head at this point, then there is nothing that I can say to change you're mind on the subject.

..alight how about this?
How could the Russians possibly get ahold of that information in the first?

Just think, and then get back to me.
 
Oborosen said:
You're not getting it, try to think about it.

Even members of the FBI investigating the collusion mystery, are saying that collusion isn't necessarily considered treason. Even if it shows that Trump Jr went out of his way to go find the information, the Russian side of the party is claiming that they are the only ones with the interest to the presidency. They have no way in proving if the feeling was going both ways.

The media is chasing another dead end, and I honestly believe that Trump is just waiting for them to shoot themselves with this particular gun.
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You are correct the Treason label is beyond the pale.

Treason is deliberately hard to prove and rare in U.S. history

Could Donald Trump Jr. Be Charged With Treason? Short Answer: No

Could Donald Trump Jr. Be Charged With Treason? Short Answer: No : NPR

Using the word "treason" can be a fraught affair. As Yale Law School's Eugene Fidell observes, treason is the only crime specifically mentioned and defined in the Constitution because it was a charge so abused by the English monarchy. In rebelling against the Crown, the Founding Fathers put a narrow definition of treason into the Constitution as "a protection," according to Fidell. Under the Constitution, "treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort."

Subsequent interpretations, by James Madison in the Federalist Papers and Chief Justice John Marshall in an 1807 Supreme Court opinion, have connected treason only to the "levying of war" or the use of force to overthrow the established institutions of government.

There is a second protection as well for those accused of treason. Under the explicit terms of Article III of the Constitution, "no person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses," both confirming the same overt act, "or on confession [of the accused] in open court."
 
Common Sense 1 said:
You are correct the Treason label is beyond the pale.

Treason is deliberately hard to prove and rare in U.S. history

Could Donald Trump Jr. Be Charged With Treason? Short Answer: No

Could Donald Trump Jr. Be Charged With Treason? Short Answer: No : NPR

Using the word "treason" can be a fraught affair. As Yale Law School's Eugene Fidell observes, treason is the only crime specifically mentioned and defined in the Constitution because it was a charge so abused by the English monarchy. In rebelling against the Crown, the Founding Fathers put a narrow definition of treason into the Constitution as "a protection," according to Fidell. Under the Constitution, "treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort."

Subsequent interpretations, by James Madison in the Federalist Papers and Chief Justice John Marshall in an 1807 Supreme Court opinion, have connected treason only to the "levying of war" or the use of force to overthrow the established institutions of government.

There is a second protection as well for those accused of treason. Under the explicit terms of Article III of the Constitution, "no person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses," both confirming the same overt act, "or on confession [of the accused] in open court."
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Yes, and that is just even more nuance tossed onto the pile right there, not to mention all of the other things that can be pulled to postpone the claim further. I just think if they want to get the Trump family on anything, they need to just stick to what is going on now, and leave this whole collusion crap to rest.

I can understand how people can be legitimately upset about this, but the amount of butt hurt coming from the opposition here is just hilariously sad. Not even taking the amount of desperation their swinging around, into account.

I would rather an actual debate happen to get this all straightened out, but that will never happen it seems.
 
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