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A New Democratic Message for 2018 Around Fiscal Policy

Winston said:
And yes, I think Democrats should go hard on the attacks against Republicans. Tie them to the debt. It doesn't matter that it's both parties faults. If you want to win, show the public the facts that paint Republicans in a bad light, and punch for the throat.
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Written just like what's expected of a hyper-partisan sheep. Both parties' fault? Don't blame MY party. Baaa Baaa Baaa!!

Perhaps if your party wants to win, they'll stop propping up corrupt career politicians that lie through their teeth just for the power. Stop blaming the other side, and fix your own first. Freakin' simps. You're only going to lose more seats in the house/senate because the millions of people who aren't partisan shills are turned off by the exact demeanor you've shown here.

By all means...keep it up. The more hyper-partisan you get, the more you lose.
 
Velvet Elvis said:
Written just like what's expected of a hyper-partisan sheep. Both parties' fault? Don't blame MY party. Baaa Baaa Baaa!!

Perhaps if your party wants to win, they'll stop propping up corrupt career politicians that lie through their teeth just for the power. Stop blaming the other side, and fix your own first. Freakin' simps. You're only going to lose more seats in the house/senate because the millions of people who aren't partisan shills are turned off by the exact demeanor you've shown here.

By all means...keep it up. The more hyper-partisan you get, the more you lose.
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Democrats need to oppose the GOP and a fine way is through GOP incompetence in economics. I fully support Democrats tying GOP to anything awful by any dishonest and underhanded means possible, because I think the GOP has already taken it there. They ran campaign ads linking Ossoff to the baseball shooting, GOPs have no principle left to stand on.
 
Velvet Elvis said:
Written just like what's expected of a hyper-partisan sheep. Both parties' fault? Don't blame MY party. Baaa Baaa Baaa!!

Perhaps if your party wants to win, they'll stop propping up corrupt career politicians that lie through their teeth just for the power. Stop blaming the other side, and fix your own first. Freakin' simps. You're only going to lose more seats in the house/senate because the millions of people who aren't partisan shills are turned off by the exact demeanor you've shown here.

By all means...keep it up. The more hyper-partisan you get, the more you lose.
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McConnell. :lamo:lamo
 
Winston said:
Democrats need to oppose the GOP and a fine way is through GOP incompetence in economics. I fully support Democrats tying GOP to anything awful by any dishonest and underhanded means possible, because I think the GOP has already taken it there. They ran campaign ads linking Ossoff to the baseball shooting, GOPs have no principle left to stand on.
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You guys still support the minimum wage, so...

I mean, this is an idea that after it was put in place the divide between black and white unemployment grew considerably and never returned back to normal. To this day democrats still deny that minimum wage is racist even if many democrats at the time of it being debated voted for it because they thought it would hurt blacks.
 
Henrin said:
You guys still support the minimum wage, so...

I mean, this is an idea that after it was put in place the divide between black and white unemployment grew considerably and never returned back to normal. To this day democrats still deny that minimum wage is racist even if many democrats at the time of it being debated voted for it because they thought it would hurt blacks.
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You don't support minimum wage?
 
Winston said:
Besides taking progressive gambles like including free college, alternative energy, single-payer, in your message, here's a radical idea from yours truly. Tell the truth about what tax cuts do to the budget.

Republicans are more fiscally irresponsible than Democrats because they put the countries spending on your credit card because they don't want to fund the government with tax revenue. Republicans hammer on balanced budgets and fiscal responsibility. But, the tax cuts they advocate for routinely lead to revenues underperforming, often hitting as low as 15% of GDP. Tie Republicans to the national debt, by pointing out they turn spending into public debt with tax cuts. If Democrats can play it right, they've been given two electoral nuggets of gold, supply side's failure in Kansas and GWB's incompetence.

Can Democrats make them into the party of fiscal irresponsibility? Because Republicans want to push tax cuts that decimate budgets. They are the cut and spend party. All you have to do is point to the 20 Trillion in debt, and blame it on Bush and Republicans irresponsible cut and spend.

Run a campaign ad that tells them Clinton left Bush a surplus and Bush turned that surplus into the highest % increase of deficit spending of all times. Because he cut taxes and started 2 wars. Then point to real GDP growth peaking at 3.6% before the financial crash, tie Republicans to the deficits and the financial crash, and then say, Trump wants to repeat this and throw in an anecdote Trump running a casino into the ground in Atlantic City.

I want to be clear that I think Democrats running towards the center, and appealing to Republican values as a Blue Dog Democrat does, is a poor strategy. People much prefer strong progressives to weak Democrats. If you'd like evidence of that, look at the 1,000 seats lost. I don't think the country is actually any more right than it was in 2009. I think if you look at the polling the country holds center left positions on marijuana legalization, single-payer, ending the wars, government corruption and money in politics, alternative energy. The country is center-left.

So, here's what I would do, tie Republicans to incompetent tax cuts that lead to budget crisis and say that Trump wants to repeat failed supply side policy.
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It might be easier just to ask the GOP why they say huge tax cuts create growth in the economy? What possible reason is there that giving 100's of billions more to those who spend all they wish already will spur GDP growth over 3%? The business world is awash with capital already too. Then you ask why the Bush tax cuts only created the worst job creation President in modern history and even before the housing bubble burst, slow to mediocre gdp growth also. Then you mention the deficits Bush ran that were records at they time. Bush doubled our national debt while President.

It is total madness to claim anything good happening to our economy from the proposed cuts and we need to call them on that 1st.
 
iguanaman said:
It might be easier just to ask the GOP why they say huge tax cuts create growth in the economy? What possible reason is there that giving 100's of billions more to those who spend all they wish already will spur GDP growth over 3%?
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The GOP will cherry pick dates when tax cuts coincided with economic growth and claim causation. Democrats can't let them do this like they have in the past. they need to run as vicious of attack and smear ads as the GOP runs on Democratic candidates, just about GOP incompetent fiscal policy that Trump is going to continue.

The business world is awash with capital already too. Then you ask why the Bush tax cuts only created the worst job creation President in modern history and even before the housing bubble burst, slow to mediocre gdp growth also. Then you mention the deficits Bush ran that were records at they time. Bush doubled our national debt while President.

It is total madness to claim anything good happening to our economy from the proposed cuts and we need to call them on that 1st.
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It irks me how the GOP has co-opted the phrase "pro-growth" to mean "tax cuts" (in addition to low regulation) Democrats need to show how progressive policy is actually pro-growth and better for the economy. Besides tying the GOP to the deficits. Besides, is there anyone out there who thinks Trump is going to do anything but, run a deficit? The "biggest tax cut ever" is going to punch a Trump sized hole in revenue. And in my opinion, the United States doesn't have a giant spending problem, except in DoD. We under perform collecting revenue. Federal Receipts as a % of GDP are far below the OECD average.
 
iguanaman said:
You long for the early 1900's because life was good for most of us then? Hardly.
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Minimum wage caused unemployment in the black population and didn't do much for any other demographic in that regard. It also didn't increase living standards since increases in the minimum wage only have short term benefits. The reason the minimum wage is unwise economically is because it acts to cut off the bottom of the economy.
 
Henrin said:
Minimum wage caused unemployment in the black population and didn't do much for any other demographic in that regard. It also didn't increase living standards since increases in the minimum wage only have short term benefits. The reason the minimum wage is unwise economically is because it acts to cut off the bottom of the economy.
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LOL Like the Civil War caused "unemployment" among blacks? It acts as a stop for the desperate employee and the greedy too. Using people to make you money without any concern for your employees welfare was commonplace before the Unions and then the minimum wage. Honestly is it the closest thing to a Union most workers will see and now you think you can take that away too?
 
iguanaman said:
LOL Like the Civil War caused "unemployment" among blacks? It acts as a stop for the desperate employee and the greedy too. Using people to make you money without any concern for your employees welfare was commonplace before the Unions and then the minimum wage. Honestly is it the closest thing to a Union most workers will see and now you think you can take that away too?
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Before it was passed businesses could hire lower skilled workers like blacks for less money than whites. Due to the fact that this caused whites to be overlooked for work the racist democrats decided they needed to pass a law to change this and as a result passed minimum wage. Without the ability for businesses to hire below minimum wage blacks were simply not able to compete and many of them were eliminated from the labor market as the democrats planned.
 
Henrin said:
Before it was passed businesses could hire lower skilled workers like blacks for less money than whites. Due to the fact that this caused whites to be overlooked for work the racist democrats decided they needed to pass a law to change this and as a result passed minimum wage. Without the ability for businesses to hire below minimum wage blacks were simply not able to compete and many of them were eliminated from the labor market as the democrats planned.
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Really? Like the minimum wage eliminated migrant workers? People work "under the table" all the time. What it eliminated is gouging by the large employers who can't work that way.
The blacks moved north when they decided wouldn't work as slaves anymore.
 
iguanaman said:
Really? Like the minimum wage eliminated migrant workers? People work "under the table" all the time. What it eliminated is gouging by the large employers who can't work that way.
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What it eliminates is any kind of voluntary and legal employment that could be agreed upon below the minimum wage.
 
Henrin said:
What it eliminates is any kind of voluntary and legal employment that could be agreed upon below the minimum wage.
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Hence what i said about protecting the desperate.
 
Henrin said:
What it eliminates is any kind of voluntary and legal employment that could be agreed upon below the minimum wage.
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And prevents abuse like corporate elitists love. You would love to create a slave labor force again in the name of corporate freedom. And before you spout then s of the "market will correct itself" it was this same market that abused child labor and employees.
 
Praxas said:
same market that abused child labor and employees.
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What did the parents say when their children were put to work? Oh they didn't care or weren’t alive? They didn't have a choice? ~ I am sure the problem was just those greedy business men giving an orphan/independent child a job they want to do to make money, how dare they ~ let's just skip over the horrible parenting....no worries there, just a poor little poor family ~ nothing to see...they're not to blame for treating kids like a commodity its the evil "market"? Not to mention there wasn't anything else around that time period that might have lead to those results, no child brides or nothing…no kids in the family farm fields…sure they were just being kept out of schools which were always open to your average young joe....

Oh what they were slave child? ~ not quite sure then that's capitalism: pretty sure in fact that's a separate issue.Pretty sure libertarianism you know espouses the principles of liberty for an individual to make voluntary choices *cough* the antithesis of slavery *cough*

create a slave labor force again in the name of corporate freedom.
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I love you to paint me the picture of how corporate freedom based in libertian ideas leads to slavery, do expand...
 
Winston said:
Besides taking progressive gambles like including free college, alternative energy, single-payer, in your message, here's a radical idea from yours truly. Tell the truth about what tax cuts do to the budget.
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Or better tell the truth about what the budget does to support a bloated and incompetent government. Tax cuts should be done for sure but they should be done in concert with spending cuts. Therein is the problem.
 
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