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Why do Republicans support the embargo against Cuba?

Dekaranger

Dekaranger

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Could somebody help me understand this? Don’t Republicans want less government control and more free market? Isn’t the embargo, which the government uses to prevent American companies and citizens from making money, exactly opposite to what they stand for?
 
Dekaranger said:
Could somebody help me understand this? Don’t Republicans want less government control and more free market? Isn’t the embargo, which the government uses to prevent American companies and citizens from making money, exactly opposite to what they stand for?
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I think the issue has to do with ensuring the totalitarian military regime ruling over the people of Cuba is held more accountable, something the Obama Administration did not feel was important to do.

Lifting sanctions while allowing the brutality that continues, allows the regime to profit and revitalize itself.

Extracting greater limits before filling their coffers seems to be the humanitarian thing to do.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/international/obama-in-cuba/type/analysis/cuban-dissidents-just-as-vulnerable
 
Dekaranger said:
Could somebody help me understand this? Don’t Republicans want less government control and more free market? Isn’t the embargo, which the government uses to prevent American companies and citizens from making money, exactly opposite to what they stand for?
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It's not about Americans making money from Cuba. It's about whether or not we are going to prop up an authoritarian Cuban regime. Most of the hotels, resorts, etc that would be involved in American torusim to Cuba are owned by the Cuban military. The Cuban regime never gave a flip about American tourism of doing business with Americans until their sugar daddy, the USSR coallpsed and ended the phony sugar cane subsidies that propped up the regime for decades. Now with that gone, they want to be rescued and propped up by American capitalism, while maintaining the authoritarian communist choke hold on their own population. Doing business with Cuba right not help rank and file Cubans.
 
ocean515 said:
I think the issue has to do with ensuring the totalitarian military regime ruling over the people of Cuba is held more accountable, something the Obama Administration did not feel was important to do.

Lifting sanctions while allowing the brutality that continues, allows the regime to profit and revitalize itself.

Extracting greater limits before filling their coffers seems to be the humanitarian thing to do.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/international/obama-in-cuba/type/analysis/cuban-dissidents-just-as-vulnerable
Click to expand...

The United States does business with countries with far worse human rights records than Cuba. If we want to play the "morality card" regarding the Cuban embargo than we have to be consistent and go after Qutar, Saudi Arabia, and other countries of their ilk.
 
ocean515 said:
I think the issue has to do with ensuring the totalitarian military regime ruling over the people of Cuba is held more accountable, something the Obama Administration did not feel was important to do.

Lifting sanctions while allowing the brutality that continues, allows the regime to profit and revitalize itself.

Extracting greater limits before filling their coffers seems to be the humanitarian thing to do.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/international/obama-in-cuba/type/analysis/cuban-dissidents-just-as-vulnerable
Click to expand...
ObamacareFail said:
It's not about Americans making money from Cuba. It's about whether or not we are going to prop up an authoritarian Cuban regime. Most of the hotels, resorts, etc that would be involved in American torusim to Cuba are owned by the Cuban military. The Cuban regime never gave a flip about American tourism of doing business with Americans until their sugar daddy, the USSR coallpsed and ended the phony sugar cane subsidies that propped up the regime for decades. Now with that gone, they want to be rescued and propped up by American capitalism, while maintaining the authoritarian communist choke hold on their own population. Doing business with Cuba right not help rank and file Cubans.
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So in order to help people of another country, the Republicians are ready to sacrifice American people's own interests? In short, is helping Cubans more important than letting Americans making money from Cuba?
 
Dekaranger said:
So in order to help people of another country, the Republicians are ready to sacrifice American people's own interests?
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Weird, isn't it? That's usually the Democrats MO.
 
CMPancake said:
The United States does business with countries with far worse human rights records than Cuba. If we want to play the "morality card" regarding the Cuban embargo than we have to be consistent and go after Qutar, Saudi Arabia, and other countries of their ilk.
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Different situation.

The embargo on Cuba goes back decades, as you know.

If you're going to lift the embargo, which I support, wouldn't it be wise to insure the citizens of Cuba get a better deal as a result?
 
Dekaranger said:
So in order to help people of another country, the Republicians are ready to sacrifice American people's own interests? In short, is helping Cubans more important than letting Americans making money from Cuba?
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Yes. The people of Cuba deserve priority over short term priorities of Americans.
 
ocean515 said:
Yes. The people of Cuba deserve priority over short term priorities of Americans.
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What? Who are the one paying tax here? Cubans or Americans? How can Cuban priority be more important than American priority? Where is that Trump's chanting "America First!!!" when we actually need it?
 
ocean515 said:
Different situation.

The embargo on Cuba goes back decades, as you know.

If you're going to lift the embargo, which I support, wouldn't it be wise to insure the citizens of Cuba get a better deal as a result?
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Yes the totally failed embargo approach goes back decades so lets stick with what works so well. What opening up Cuba did was allow regular Cubans to turn their homes into B&B's, rent out their classic cars, take people on tours, open cafes, etc. Prior to that you had to visit as part of tour group using only the approved government hotels and facilities. Trumps EO had the exact opposite effect he and now you are touting.
 
Dekaranger said:
What? Who are the one paying tax here? Cubans or Americans? How can Cuban priority be more important than American priority? Where is that Trump's chanting "America First!!!" when we actually need it?
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I have no idea where you are coming from. Americans have been bared from profiting from Cuba since the 60's. It's only when the Obama Administration lifted sanctions that opportunities to profit were opened up. That is a recent development.

What kind of long term prospects are there if the military junta ruling Cuba is revitalized via the profits they extract from increased economic activity?

Are you suggesting addressing the repression of basic human rights should take a back seat to short term profits?
 
trblmkr said:
Yes the totally failed embargo approach goes back decades so lets stick with what works so well. What opening up Cuba did was allow regular Cubans to turn their homes into B&B's, rent out their classic cars, take people on tours, open cafes, etc. Prior to that you had to visit as part of tour group using only the approved government hotels and facilities. Trumps EO had the exact opposite effect he and now you are touting.
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Troops liberating Jews from concentration Camps learned very quickly they needed to restrict the assistance given in order to insure their long term health and well being.

It would be brutal to give Cubans a taste of well deserved freedom, only to have the revitalized military junta ruling them step in and take away what they started to obtain for themselves.

It seems to me, making sure greater concessions are obtained from the military junta, before opening the flood gates of capital normal relations will unleash, is an important long step for the long term benefit of the Cuban people.
 
ocean515 said:
I have no idea where you are coming from. Americans have been bared from profiting from Cuba since the 60's. It's only when the Obama Administration lifted sanctions that opportunities to profit were opened up. That is a recent development.

What kind of long term prospects are there if the military junta ruling Cuba is revitalized via the profits they extract from increased economic activity?

Are you suggesting addressing the repression of basic human rights should take a back seat to short term profits?
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Cuba is revitalized => Cuban people are revitalized as well. Look at how China and Vietnam developed after we began to trade with them. Or you are saying that we should let Cuban people stay poor in order to keep Cuban government poor?

And more importantly, American taxpayers' interests should not take a back seat to other people's oppression when it doesn't directly affect us.
 
Dekaranger said:
Cuba is revitalized => Cuban people are revitalized as well. Look at how China and Vietnam developed after we began to trade with them. Or you are saying that we should let Cuban people stay poor in order to keep Cuban government poor?

And more importantly, American taxpayers' interests should not take a back seat to other people's oppression when it doesn't directly affect us.
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The Cuban government is desperate. Why reward their desperation at the expense of their people? Shouldn't the US Carrot require greater concession before it's fully consumed?

Regarding Vietnam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations

Vietnam’s suppression of political dissent has been an issue of contention in relations with the U.S. and drew criticism from the Administration and Congress. In spring 2007, Vietnam’s government launched a crackdown on political dissidents, and in November the same year arrested a group of pro-democracy activists, including two Americans.​

For me, I can't imagine extracting profit while those providing it suffer.

I guess others aren't so inclined.
 
ocean515 said:
The Cuban government is desperate. Why reward their desperation at the expense of their people? Shouldn't the US Carrot require greater concession before it's fully consumed?

Regarding Vietnam:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations

Vietnam’s suppression of political dissent has been an issue of contention in relations with the U.S. and drew criticism from the Administration and Congress. In spring 2007, Vietnam’s government launched a crackdown on political dissidents, and in November the same year arrested a group of pro-democracy activists, including two Americans.​

For me, I can't imagine extracting profit while those providing it suffer.

I guess others aren't so inclined.
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If you didn't notice, Trump invited Vietnam's PM to the White House last month. So much for the carrot.
af1ffe10-7e12-4d0f-9a8d-69832ebbcaf2.jpeg


If you don't like to exact profit, fine. But you and the US government should not prevent other citizens from doing that.
 
Dekaranger said:
Could somebody help me understand this? Don’t Republicans want less government control and more free market? Isn’t the embargo, which the government uses to prevent American companies and citizens from making money, exactly opposite to what they stand for?
Click to expand...

The embargo has been around for half a century through both liberal and conservative administrations. I think lifting the sanctions is the right move for the reasons you mentioned, but there is more to conservatism than just making money. There are things that even liberals used to care about once upon a time, like human rights. Calling for some improvement in the rights of the people as a precondition for improved trade seems to be a more than reasonable thing for a free country like ours to insist upon.
 
Dekaranger said:
If you didn't notice, Trump invited Vietnam's PM to the White House last month. So much for the carrot.
af1ffe10-7e12-4d0f-9a8d-69832ebbcaf2.jpeg


If you don't like to exact profit, fine. But you and the US government should not prevent other citizens from doing that.
Click to expand...

I'm well aware of the improved relations with the Socialist Republic of Vietnam.

As to your final sentence, I'm not restricting you from extracting profits.
 
ocean515 said:
I think the issue has to do with ensuring the totalitarian military regime ruling over the people of Cuba is held more accountable, something the Obama Administration did not feel was important to do.

Lifting sanctions while allowing the brutality that continues, allows the regime to profit and revitalize itself.

Extracting greater limits before filling their coffers seems to be the humanitarian thing to do.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/international/obama-in-cuba/type/analysis/cuban-dissidents-just-as-vulnerable
Click to expand...

All it really does is undermine free trade between people and hurt everyday people from both sides.
 
Dekaranger said:
Could somebody help me understand this? Don’t Republicans want less government control and more free market? Isn’t the embargo, which the government uses to prevent American companies and citizens from making money, exactly opposite to what they stand for?
Click to expand...

Do you really believe the actions taken against Cuba was all about Capitalism and nothing else? Personally, I don't thing capitalism had a thing to do with it. Apparently you think differently as if Capitalism had everything to do with it.
 
These kind of ideas put government interests before the rights of people, which is ironic since its supporters say it is done to promote human rights.
 
Henrin said:
All it really does is undermine free trade between people and hurt everyday people from both sides.
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If you're speaking of the military junta controlling the Cuban people, I agree.

Feeding that junta to the detriment of the Cuban people seems like a bad policy move.
 
ocean515 said:
If you're speaking of the military junta controlling the Cuban people, I agree.

Feeding that junta to the detriment of the Cuban people seems like a bad policy move.
Click to expand...

You realize why the embargo was thought to be effective, right? It's goals were to decrease monetary and real wages, bring about hunger and desperation, and the eventual overthrow of the government. The embargo was never about helping the people of Cuba, but about hurting them and getting the US government what it wanted, which was the elimination of the Castro government. There is nothing noble about purposely making a people suffer so that you can perhaps get rid of their government. The only thing it really did was violate the rights of people in the US and Cuba and make the Cuban people poorer.
 
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Henrin said:
You realize why the embargo was thought to be effective, right? It's goals were to decrease monetary and real wages, bring about hunger and desperation, and the eventual overthrow of the government. The embargo was never about helping the people of Cuba, but about hurting them and getting the US government what it wanted, which was the elimination of the Castro government. There is nothing noble about purposely making a people suffer so that you can perhaps get rid of their government. The only thing it really did was violate the rights of people in the US and Cuba and make the Cuban people poorer.
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The Military Junta made the Cuban people poorer. It continues to do so. I have no idea why you are blaming the actions of the Socialist/Communists running Cuba on the United States.
 
ocean515 said:
If you're speaking of the military junta controlling the Cuban people, I agree.

Feeding that junta to the detriment of the Cuban people seems like a bad policy move.
Click to expand...

So this is all about making Cuban people so despairing that they will one day uprise their government for us?
 
ocean515 said:
The Military Junta made the Cuban people poorer. It continues to do so. I have no idea why you are blaming the actions of the Socialist/Communists running Cuba on the United States.
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Are you suggesting that economic sanctions don't hurt a people? So economic sanctions on commerce and travel don't hurt the people of a country? Where did you even get that idea? You're talking about an embargo that has hurt Cuba in excess of one trillion dollars and somehow that doesn't hurt the people of Cuba? Are you serious?
 
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