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Independent voters leave and criticize trump base and administration .

presluc said:
Well you said the polls were fake if I post a link why should I believe you would not say they were fake too.
Perhaps you could follow your great leader and say this is a witch hunt?
Perhaps you already have after all trump says fake news you say fake polls.:peace
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Oh...I don't just "say" they are fake. I can tell you why.

Anyway...

witch-hunt also witch hunt (wĭch′hŭnt′)
n.
An investigation carried out ostensibly to uncover subversive activities but actually used to harass and undermine those with differing views.

Witch-hunt - definition of witch-hunt by The Free Dictionary
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Yeah...I'd say that shoe fits.
 
presluc said:
Well if a Republican put up a thread saying Independent party backs Trump I'd do some research to prove that wrong.
You speak like an intellectual, very well prove me wrong no chit chat , no speeches PROVE ME WRONG.
Or is it true what the Democrats are saying the Republicans are weak they only research what they want to find and only listen to what they want to hear???:peace
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What I'm saying here buddy, "intellectual" or otherwise, is if you make a claim you should be able to prove it. It's your assertion, not ours.

You are indeed right in this instance, but many won't know it or care because you didn't support your claim.

But again, hey, it's your thread - have at it.
 
presluc said:
When I say Independent voters I'm not talking about the Libertarian with a large L or a small l or the Tea Party which are Republicans incognito.I'm talking about true Independent voters which only wants whats best for America and Americans.
Could this be a warning to the Republican party after all Independent voters are growing.:peace
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I think it has more to do with the dislike of Trump. It Clinton had won, they would be turning on her. Independents didn't want either one to begin with. Before the election 54% of all independents viewed both candidates very negatively or unfavorably. So they were never Trump's to begin with. It's true Trump won the independent vote 46-42 over Clinton with 12% voting third party. But that didn't mean indies like Trump, they just disliked Clinton a bit more than Trump. Still that vote was pretty even.

Independents have turned on Trump, that is certain. Back at the end of January, independents approved of Trump by a 40-34 margin with 26% unsure or undecided. Today using RCP averages it is 36% of indies still approve of Trump, 48% disapprove with 15% still unsure or undecided. But disapproval of Trump doesn't mean independents look upon the Democratic Party any more favorably than they do the Republican Party.

Only 21% of all independents view the Democratic Party favorably, 55% unfavorable. Indies view of the Republican Party is almost identical, 21% favorable, 56% unfavorable.

Yes, the share of the electorate identifying themselves is growing. Back in 2012 according to Gallup 35% of the electorate affiliated themselves with the Democratic Party, 30% with the Republican Party while 35% said they were independents. Today, the numbers are 28% identifying with the Democratic Party, 25% with the Republican Party with 44% calling themselves independents.

Most independents are sick and tired of both major parties. Perhaps that is why we have a four fold increase last November who voted third party over the norm.
 
Perotista said:
I think it has more to do with the dislike of Trump. It Clinton had won, they would be turning on her. Independents didn't want either one to begin with. Before the election 54% of all independents viewed both candidates very negatively or unfavorably. So they were never Trump's to begin with. It's true Trump won the independent vote 46-42 over Clinton with 12% voting third party. But that didn't mean indies like Trump, they just disliked Clinton a bit more than Trump. Still that vote was pretty even.

Independents have turned on Trump, that is certain. Back at the end of January, independents approved of Trump by a 40-34 margin with 26% unsure or undecided. Today using RCP averages it is 36% of indies still approve of Trump, 48% disapprove with 15% still unsure or undecided. But disapproval of Trump doesn't mean independents look upon the Democratic Party any more favorably than they do the Republican Party.

Only 21% of all independents view the Democratic Party favorably, 55% unfavorable. Indies view of the Republican Party is almost identical, 21% favorable, 56% unfavorable.

Yes, the share of the electorate identifying themselves is growing. Back in 2012 according to Gallup 35% of the electorate affiliated themselves with the Democratic Party, 30% with the Republican Party while 35% said they were independents. Today, the numbers are 28% identifying with the Democratic Party, 25% with the Republican Party with 44% calling themselves independents.

Most independents are sick and tired of both major parties. Perhaps that is why we have a four fold increase last November who voted third party over the norm.
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Bingo.
 
Mycroft said:
Oh...I don't just "say" they are fake. I can tell you why.

Anyway...



Yeah...I'd say that shoe fits.
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Well , Nixon said that the investigation of the Watergate scandal was a Witch hunt . unfortunately for him it was not.it was in fact an investigation that uncovered some very bad things.
Now Trump is saying this is a Witch hunt and screaming fake news. Why should the American people believe him when time after time his campaign promises has been broken . The what he said on the Campaign trail and what he is doing now is there this is no news report this is fact.:peace
 
Moderate Right said:
Bingo.
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It is as you say there is no love lost between the Independent party and the Republicans or the Democrats.
However whether you like it or not the Republicans have a a Republican president , a Republican administration a Majority of Republicans in the House , a majority of Republicans in the Senate.
I made the statement that "Republicans better be good for all America and Americans cause there's no one left to blame".
Now you can scream at the media, you can scream at the investigators you can scream at the Democrats , you can cry why am I being picked on but your approval rating is low that comes from the American people .
Who are asking questions like why did President Trump condemn the Muslim nations during his campaign and agree to sell arms to Saudi Arabia "a Muslim country" after he was elected? Why did President Trump say on the Campaign trail he would not touch S.S., Medicare or Medicaid , and then cut medicare and Medicaid after he is elected? Why would he say he was going to drain the swamp of corrupt politics on the campaign trail and yet a man he appointed as Sec. of State is now taking the 5th during a trial?
There are more.:peace






'
 
Chomsky said:
What I'm saying here buddy, "intellectual" or otherwise, is if you make a claim you should be able to prove it. It's your assertion, not ours.

You are indeed right in this instance, but many won't know it or care because you didn't support your claim.

But again, hey, it's your thread - have at it.
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Can't believe I'm the only fact checker on this forum, it's not like I don't check anybody's post for facts , I do and often, Buddy or not.:peace
 
presluc said:
Well , Nixon said that the investigation of the Watergate scandal was a Witch hunt . unfortunately for him it was not.it was in fact an investigation that uncovered some very bad things.
Now Trump is saying this is a Witch hunt and screaming fake news. Why should the American people believe him when time after time his campaign promises has been broken . The what he said on the Campaign trail and what he is doing now is there this is no news report this is fact.:peace
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Okay, I see two points here. I'll take them individually.

1. Nixon. I have nothing against an investigation. I don't even have anything against an investigation based on information...that is later confirmed as accurate...coming from unnamed sources. What I DO have a problem with is constant, unverified information being shouted by the media that has NO named sources. There is NOTHING to this information. There is NO evidence being produced by any investigation. The purpose of all this action by the media isn't to uncover accurate information. The purpose is the witch hunt.

Remember the definition of the term:

witch-hunt also witch hunt (wĭch′hŭnt′)
n.
An investigation carried out ostensibly to uncover subversive activities but actually used to harass and undermine those with differing views.

Witch-hunt - definition of witch-hunt by The Free Dictionary
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2. Trump hasn't broken any campaign promises. Oh, for sure, he isn't going to do some things as soon as he said he would. That doesn't mean he isn't going to do them. Also, some of the things he said on the campaign trail were rhetorical statements designed to energize the voters...not campaign promises. That "Lock her up" stuff about Hillary comes to mind. But the core issues he campaigned on are very much still his focus and he is working on them in spite of opposition from Democrats and opposition from his own Party.
 
Mycroft said:
Okay, I see two points here. I'll take them individually.

1. Nixon. I have nothing against an investigation. I don't even have anything against an investigation based on information...that is later confirmed as accurate...coming from unnamed sources. What I DO have a problem with is constant, unverified information being shouted by the media that has NO named sources. There is NOTHING to this information. There is NO evidence being produced by any investigation. The purpose of all this action by the media isn't to uncover accurate information. The purpose is the witch hunt.

Remember the definition of the term:



2. Trump hasn't broken any campaign promises. Oh, for sure, he isn't going to do some things as soon as he said he would. That doesn't mean he isn't going to do them. Also, some of the things he said on the campaign trail were rhetorical statements designed to energize the voters...not campaign promises. That "Lock her up" stuff about Hillary comes to mind. But the core issues he campaigned on are very much still his focus and he is working on them in spite of opposition from Democrats and opposition from his own Party.
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Really???
Trump's campaign speech "I'll build a wall across Mexico and Mexico will pay for it"
Trump's speech after he is elected "I'll build a wall across Mexico and Congress will pay for it"
Just a small example but some how these statements seem different to me?

As for as an investigation Trump just recently fired the man that was in charge of the investigation now they have to start all over.
Who's fault is that everybody agreed this investigation should be done by a neutral party anyway but Trump and his robots said no.
So who's in charge of the investigation today??:peace
 
presluc said:
Really???
Trump's campaign speech "I'll build a wall across Mexico and Mexico will pay for it"
Trump's speech after he is elected "I'll build a wall across Mexico and Congress will pay for it"
Just a small example but some how these statements seem different to me?
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He has ALWAYS maintained that Mexico will pay for it. No lie there.

As for as an investigation Trump just recently fired the man that was in charge of the investigation now they have to start all over.
Who's fault is that everybody agreed this investigation should be done by a neutral party anyway but Trump and his robots said no.
So who's in charge of the investigation today??:peace
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Actually, Comey wasn't in charge of that investigation...he was in charge of the FBI. Someone else was in charge of the investigation...and they do NOT "have to start all over". Where on earth do you get THAT idea?

"everybody". Is that like saying "we", when talking about just yourself? In any case, yes...Trump didn't see a need for a neutral party, but he has welcomed that neutral party anyway. Seems he's confident that no matter who conducts it, the investigation won't come up with anything about him. shrug... Big deal.

Who's in charge? Which investigation are you asking about?
 
Mycroft, you will be informed with the rest of us in the unwashed masses of the named sources at the appropriate time.

We do know that Flynn, Stone, Page, Manafort, Kushner, and others are persons of interest. That's a start.
 
Mycroft said:
He has ALWAYS maintained that Mexico will pay for it. No lie there.



Actually, Comey wasn't in charge of that investigation...he was in charge of the FBI. Someone else was in charge of the investigation...and they do NOT "have to start all over". Where on earth do you get THAT idea?

"everybody". Is that like saying "we", when talking about just yourself? In any case, yes...Trump didn't see a need for a neutral party, but he has welcomed that neutral party anyway. Seems he's confident that no matter who conducts it, the investigation won't come up with anything about him. shrug... Big deal.

Who's in charge? Which investigation are you asking about?
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Well first of all I personally don't trust Mexico 2nd of all in his campaign speech and quoting here" I will build a wall across Mexico and mexico will pay for it" not We will build a wall across Mexico Congress will pay for it Mexico will pay Congress later.

Trump's campaign speech" Social Security , Medicare, and Medicaid will not be touched"
Seen Trump's budget bill have ya???

As for the investigation we shall see we shall see. no man takes the 5th during a trial unless he has something to hide .Flynn took the 5th , Flynn was hired by Trump.:peace
 
JamesBY said:
Mycroft, you will be informed with the rest of us in the unwashed masses of the named sources at the appropriate time.

We do know that Flynn, Stone, Page, Manafort, Kushner, and others are persons of interest. That's a start.
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What do these gentlemen have in common???:peace
 
JamesBY said:
Mycroft, you will be informed with the rest of us in the unwashed masses of the named sources at the appropriate time.

We do know that Flynn, Stone, Page, Manafort, Kushner, and others are persons of interest. That's a start.
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"at the appropriate time."

LOL!!

Okay.

Then you won't mind if I dismiss all the unnamed sources...and their contentions...until such time as they are named, right? Or, do you think I should just blindly believe them because YOU say they'll be named "at the appropriate time"?
 
Mycroft said:
"at the appropriate time." LOL!! Okay. Then you won't mind if I dismiss all the unnamed sources...and their contentions...until such time as they are named, right? Or, do you think I should just blindly believe them because YOU say they'll be named "at the appropriate time"?
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What you dismiss is immaterial. It does not matter to the reality of the investigations, the which you don't like. Now they, unlike your nonsense, are real, and that frightens you as well they should.
 
JamesBY said:
What you dismiss is immaterial. It does not matter to the reality of the investigations, the which you don't like. Now they, unlike your nonsense, are real, and that frightens you as well they should.
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Wow...you sure seem to think you know me...even though you don't. You haven't been here long enough.

But sure...you won't accept my dismissal of anything from unnamed sources. That's a given. Do I care? Not at all.

In any case, I'm perfectly willing to wait for Mueller to come up with results of his investigation. I just won't believe every tom, dick or mary who spouts some unverifiable nonsense without putting their name to it. You, of course, can do what you want.
 
JamesBY said:
What you dismiss is immaterial. It does not matter to the reality of the investigations, the which you don't like. Now they, unlike your nonsense, are real, and that frightens you as well they should.
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Mycroft said:
Wow...you sure seem to think you know me...even though you don't. You haven't been here long enough. But sure...you won't accept my dismissal of anything from unnamed sources. That's a given. Do I care? Not at all. In any case, I'm perfectly willing to wait for Mueller to come up with results of his investigation. I just won't believe every tom, dick or mary who spouts some unverifiable nonsense without putting their name to it. You, of course, can do what you want.
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I know you by what you write is true. So now you are going to wait on Mueller and the rest, I hope, of the intel and congressional investigations. Who is demanding you believe anything? Yet you expect everyone to dismiss all of this because no one has told you, yet, "Yo, sherlock's big bro, here it all is." Tough.
 
JamesBY said:
I know you by what you write is true. So now you are going to wait on Mueller and the rest, I hope, of the intel and congressional investigations. Who is demanding you believe anything? Yet you expect everyone to dismiss all of this because no one has told you, yet, "Yo, sherlock's big bro, here it all is." Tough.
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What intel investigations? The FBI? They are out of the picture now that Mueller has taken over. The Congressional investigations? Don't care about them. They are political theater, at best.

Nobody is demanding anything of me...and I'm not expecting anyone to dismiss anything. I speak for myself...as should you.
 
Mycroft said:
What intel investigations? The FBI? They are out of the picture now that Mueller has taken over. The Congressional investigations? Don't care about them. They are political theater, at best. Nobody is demanding anything of me...and I'm not expecting anyone to dismiss anything. I speak for myself...as should you.
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You speak ignorantly then. You go back and study what investigations are going on. As all here on this Board have been informed time and again, so it is common knowledge, that the House and the Senate and the FBI and the intel agencies all have investigations going on. Did you not know that?
 
JamesBY said:
You speak ignorantly then. You go back and study what investigations are going on. As all here on this Board have been informed time and again, so it is common knowledge, that the House and the Senate and the FBI and the intel agencies all have investigations going on. Did you not know that?
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I don't have to study anything. You are making the statements. You can support your statements or not. Your choice.

One thing is clear, though...you know nothing about "intel agencies".
 
JamesBY said:
That is what the investigations are paring now, innit?
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Yes, but all are directly or indirectly been in contact with Donald Trump "now President Trump."is that not true?:peace
 
Mycroft said:
I don't have to study anything. You are making the statements. You can support your statements or not. Your choice. One thing is clear, though...you know nothing about "intel agencies".
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Those statements are common knowledge, have been supported elsewhere, and all your angry yelling :x does not mean the investigations are slowing down or ending.
 
JamesBY said:
Those statements are common knowledge, have been supported elsewhere, and all your angry yelling :x does not mean the investigations are slowing down or ending.
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And STILL you won't support your own contentions...

yawn...

(not yelling...bored)
 
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