Congrats GOP! Here is what you won.

Kobie said:

While it's satisfying to see everything I've said for years -- that the GOP caucus is nothing but a craven bunch of lying pieces of human garbage who will sell out everyone who voted for them on a moment's notice, completely ****ing them over to satisfy the rich, with no conscience -- be proven to be incontrovertible fact, yet again, I shudder at the human cost of these sociopaths running the goddamned government.

What's worse is that the retards who voted for them will continue to do so, lest someone gay or black or female catch a break.

American conservatism, these days, is basically a race to the bottom of who can be the bigger asshole.

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Yikes.

I just have to say, I personally hope that Campaigning for the Office of POTUS doesn't devolve further into a race to catch a break.

Also, it's a bit closer to the point, that American Partisanism is the driving force behind offering political candidates racing to the bottom of the AssHole_Pile.

Kobie said:

I have a very hard time believing that your premiums skyrocketed, unless you originally had a plan that basically covered nothing, and now your coverage is terrible. I call bull****.

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Dude have you even bothered to look at the crap they call insurance on the ACA? $6000.00 deductible and 80% coverage all for about $1200.00 a month if you cant get a subsidy, Which I cant in California. I decided to self insure, its ****ing cheaper than buying the crap called insurance. I used to have catastrophic coverage that covered 100% plus pharmacy at 100% after a $5000.00 deductible which was the highest you could get at the time. I cost me $130.00 a month. My total bill was $209.00 with my concierge medical service. If you get sick with that crap ACA coverage you got $6000 a year plus $14400 a year plus you are still stuck with 20% of the bill. At $20000 a year ya may as bank it and if you get sick pay cash.

PirateMk1 said:

Dude have you even bothered to look at the crap they call insurance on the ACA? $6000.00 deductible and 80% coverage all for about $1200.00 a month if you cant get a subsidy, Which I cant in California.

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First of all, you're describing a bronze plan. That means virtually all of the out-of-pocket contribution is put into the deductible (under Covered California's standard bronze benefit design the $6,300 medical deductible + $500 drug deductible = the $6,800 out-of-pocket max). That means after you hit your deductible you're paying nothing out of pocket. Co-insurance (the X% of a bill you pay) is a more important concept for lower deductible plans, not bronze plans.

As for premiums, browsing Covered California's 2017 rate booklet, it looks like the average unsubsidized bronze plan premium for a 40-year-old across all of the state's rating areas is somewhere around $300, with a number of options cheaper than that available.

Kobie said:

While it's satisfying to see everything I've said for years -- that the GOP caucus is nothing but a craven bunch of lying pieces of human garbage who will sell out everyone who voted for them on a moment's notice, completely ****ing them over to satisfy the rich, with no conscience -- be proven to be incontrovertible fact, yet again, I shudder at the human cost of these sociopaths running the goddamned government.

What's worse is that the retards who voted for them will continue to do so, lest someone gay or black or female catch a break.

American conservatism, these days, is basically a race to the bottom of who can be the bigger asshole.

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Too bad you cant bottle all that hatred, anger and dishonesty and sell it. I guess the only problem would be that since most of your leftist pals already have enough of those things, I am not sure who would buy it.

CriticalThought said:

Oh, I'm terribly sorry. Clearly you have figured this out. Please explain precisely how this bill will improve your situation and not make it worse. Educate me on the merits of how this is going to be better for you and not just worse for everyone else.

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Better yet, since you are the one claiming the sky is falling, how about you 'explain precisely how this bill will make the situation worse.'

Instead of making progress and improving the country, president Trump and the Republican controlled house, passed a bill that will negatively impact millions. Analysis shows the bill provides massive tax cuts for the least vulnerable while places those with preexisting conditions at increased risk of being priced out of coverage.
At a time when bankruptcy due to medical bills is at a low, this move could negatively impact the economy and kill Americans.

At the same time, ironically, president Trump issued a religious liberty bill protecting those who discriminate in the name of a Christian God.

May the 4th be with you.

What will historians say? Wait, that is an entirely different FUBAR issue.

Ugh

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Hawkeye10 said:

Right, but the medical system needs to be stabilized till we can fix Washington, because nothing productive can be done on such a complex major problem till Washington functions, whenever the hell that happens.

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ACA was a bill they had public hearings and debate about for a year. This garbage they crammed through as quickly possible in backroom deals and with no real public review.

akyron said:

Typical.

I come with all seriousness with real life issues and examples and get nothing but ridicule and disbelief as if my personal experience was somehow less than another's.

This is the face of the modern left.

And gone is any hope of bipartisan solutions.

And gone is the hope of ever getting my vote unless something seriously changes.

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Why, exactly, am I supposed to uncritically accept your claims, evidence-free?

Bucky said:

Most members of congress don't read the full bill before voting. Waiting for the CBO score would have been unnecessary.

The passing of this bill was historic in order to put Obamacare behind us. I fully believe this bill will save the average joe money, spur the economy, create more jobs, lower the deficit etc...

Trump has been the chemotherapy for our political system. You are wrong Kobie. Trump will fight against Wall Street, fight against big pharmacy, fight the health care industry. The state lines will be removed and we will win.

This bill will reduce the federal deficit by more than $300 billion over a decade. Have faith in Trump.

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:lamo

High comedy here.

Fletch said:

Too bad you cant bottle all that hatred, anger and dishonesty and sell it. I guess the only problem would be that since most of your leftist pals already have enough of those things, I am not sure who would buy it.

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Anger? Absolutely. Hatred? Nah. Dishonesty? Not a bit. The current state of American conservatism is a cancer.

Perotista said:

Here is what is coming next if something isn't done.

One-third of US won't have a choice between Obamacare plans in 2017

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/19/one-third-of-us-wont-have-choice-between-obamacare-plans-in-2017.html


Iowa may be without individual health plans if insurer pulls out

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/05/03/iowa-health-insurers-obamacare/309955001/

Fighting to keep the ACA and I think the Democrats will be successful in the Senate as there is no way the Republicans can get 60 votes for cloture. 2017 will mean 7 states with only one health insurance company in the ACA, no choices, its a take what they offer and pay what they want choice. Then Iowa may be without any insurance company, no choice. If no health insurance company is offering insurance through the ACA in Iowa, what good is the ACA?

What about 2018 assuming the Democrats are successful in the senate? How many of those 7 states will join Iowa with no health insurance company to offer insurance via the ACA? There are also nine states with but two insurance companies for 2017, will any of those nine state be down to one or none?

I'm not saying Trumpcare is the answer, I don't think it is. But neither is the ACA the answer to this nation's healthcare problem. The ACA is imploding via insurance companies pulling out of it. Pre-exisiting conditions may have to be covered under the ACA, they are. But if one can't get insurance because your states doesn't have any insurance companies offering insurance through the ACA having pre-existing conditions covered means nothing.

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I agree with you. There is no chance the Senate passes this bill.

That leave Obamacare in place. And you touched on what that means.

It seems to me, the authors of Obamacare are a bit premature with their predictions, given they are doing nothing to address the growing problems with it.

One party will have the ability to say they have been trying to tackle the problem, while the other party won't be able to say anything about the problem they alone created.

It will be interesting to see how they try to hide that truth.

CriticalThought said:

The GOP had the chance to fix Obamacare. They chose to gut it to give a tax cut to the wealthy. No matter what happens now, they own it.

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Cause and effect? The pull out of insurance companies from Obamacare was announced last year, before Trump. Now the fact Iowa may not have a single insurance company to choose from, that was two or three days ago. But I agree with you in the fact that the ACA has been hanging around the Democrat's neck since it was first passed. The kindly Republicans have just removed that albatross from the Democrat's neck and tied it around their own. So yes, I think one can now say the Republicans own healthcare from yesterday until...who knows.

If I was a Democrat, I would be breathing a sigh of relief and down on my knees thanking the GOP. I think the Republicans just gave the House back to the Democrats in 2018. That is fine by me, I like divided government, more checks and balances.

CriticalThought said:

GOP bill says it covers pre-existing conditions. But some are worried sick - CNN.com

Stories like this that show the real people who are part of the 25% of this country with preexisting conditions who likely will not be able to afford insurance under your bill. If this becomes law, this will be the new reality you see every day until that law is repealed. Your own voters who believed you would create a better system for them but who you betrayed to pass a half trillion tax cut to the wealthiest Americans. No amount of gerrymandering and voter suppression will save you from what comes next you self serving cowards.

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Will this wake the redneck, without a pot to piss in, up to realize his enemy is the rich man and not the Black, Gay, Mexican or Muslim man? I doubt it. But, it should be fun to watch their empty heads explode when they realize they are still ****ed even when everyone they voted for is in power.

Greenbeard said:

For the sake of those states you mentioned, it's more important that the Dems do well at the state-level in 2018 as state-level leadership (or lack thereof) is a significant part of the story in states that are struggling.

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You know me, I have been anti-ACA ever since it was passed. I'm not pro-ACA now either although I think this Trumpcare thing is probably worst than the ACA. Now I am anti-both. The Democrats back in 2009 and 2010 went against the will of the people when they passed the thing. Instead of taking care of the uninsured, they redid the entire healthcare system. True that Obamacare didn't effect over half of all Americans, but what it did was take most Americans out of their comfort zone. They were used to the way things were and comfortable with it being that way, at least those who had insurance for the most part. What most Americans wanted was something to take care of the uninsured while leaving everyone else alone. This was reflected in the 2010 midterms. I also think the Democrats didn't take time to make sure they had the ACA right, that they rushed it through thinking they could fix any problems with it after it was passed. Remember Kennedy died and Brown was going to take his seat soon preventing the Democrats of a filibuster proof senate. Sort of pass it now, fix it later. Then the midterms of 2010 blindsided them and any chance of fixing anything within the ACA was gone.

The GOP is making the same mistakes. First the majority of Americans are now against repeal. Second, the Republicans are rushing this thing through without making sure they have everything fixed and correct. It's this rush job that will be their undoing as I feel Trumpcare will be worst than the ACA ever was. The GOP in my opinion won't be able to fix it either, they will lose the House in 2018. As I stated before, that's fine with me. I like divided government, more checks and balances.

I'm not sure how state governments can affect the ACA at their level outside of the medicaid thing. But you're the expect there, not me. Now the Democrats doing well in winning governorship's and state legislatures could mean they have a better chance at gerrymandering congressional districts after the 2020 census.

CriticalThought said:

GOP bill says it covers pre-existing conditions. But some are worried sick - CNN.com

Stories like this that show the real people who are part of the 25% of this country with preexisting conditions who likely will not be able to afford insurance under your bill. If this becomes law, this will be the new reality you see every day until that law is repealed. Your own voters who believed you would create a better system for them but who you betrayed to pass a half trillion tax cut to the wealthiest Americans. No amount of gerrymandering and voter suppression will save you from what comes next you self serving cowards.

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25% of the nation has preexisting conditions? I think you need to back that number up.

Allowing someone to walk into an insurance office the day before a million dollar operation, plop down a hundred bucks and have full coverage is an insurance plan doomed to fail.

ocean515 said:

I agree with you. There is no chance the Senate passes this bill.

That leave Obamacare in place. And you touched on what that means.

It seems to me, the authors of Obamacare are a bit premature with their predictions, given they are doing nothing to address the growing problems with it.

One party will have the ability to say they have been trying to tackle the problem, while the other party won't be able to say anything about the problem they alone created.

It will be interesting to see how they try to hide that truth.

Click to expand...

I think when the Democrats defeat Trumpcare in the senate, for the rest of the year it will look like a huge Democratic victory and Democrats will be crowing about it. But once the clock turns to next year, when folks find out they have no choice but to accept under penalty of law whatever the one insurance company is offering them in insurance, the cost of premiums and the rise in the deductible, that victory in the senate won't look so good.

Perotista said:

I think when the Democrats defeat Trumpcare in the senate, for the rest of the year it will look like a huge Democratic victory and Democrats will be crowing about it. But once the clock turns to next year, when folks find out they have no choice but to accept under penalty of law whatever the one insurance company is offering them in insurance, the cost of premiums and the rise in the deductible, that victory in the senate won't look so good.

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I share your observation.

Further, in a spectacle that could haunt them in the future, video of House Dems singing "Na, Na, Na, Na" on the House floor yesterday would make a powerful background to the realities you described.

What will Dems be able to point at when voters are asking for answers? A group trying to find solutions, or themselves, owners of the problem, and guilty of doing nothing to resolved them?

PirateMk1 said:

Dude have you even bothered to look at the crap they call insurance on the ACA? $6000.00 deductible and 80% coverage all for about $1200.00 a month if you cant get a subsidy, Which I cant in California. I decided to self insure, its ****ing cheaper than buying the crap called insurance. I used to have catastrophic coverage that covered 100% plus pharmacy at 100% after a $5000.00 deductible which was the highest you could get at the time. I cost me $130.00 a month. My total bill was $209.00 with my concierge medical service. If you get sick with that crap ACA coverage you got $6000 a year plus $14400 a year plus you are still stuck with 20% of the bill. At $20000 a year ya may as bank it and if you get sick pay cash.

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This. This is precisely why I believe the GOP was stupid beyond words taking this issue on because no matter what they did, leftists...the same leftists that ate the ACA **** sandwich with gusto and defended it in spite of the disaster it was, will use it against them. Leftists will completely ignore the sham that the ACA was to say HA! Its all YOUR fault. See...they would rather KEEP EATING those **** sandwiches for the rat party if it means they 'win' against the GOP. The GOP should have let them.

Passing anything was a mistake. The GOP should have let them eat those **** sandwiches til the leftists finally begged them to do something about it because lord knows, their precious rat party was just going to keep feeding them. The GOP lost this round...or at least has the potential to lose it. If the GOP in the senate passes it and then Trump signs it...the GOP will have screwed themselves. Who knows...Maybe this was an orchestrated ploy and it wont get signed.

Kobie said:

Anger? Absolutely. Hatred? Nah. Dishonesty? Not a bit. The current state of American conservatism is a cancer.

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Tell us all about how much you love the ACA. Tell us about all the legislative efforts the rat party attempted over the last 6 years to fix the problems. Tell us about how important it was that the rats and their head rat leave the American people with a GOOD product and not just a plate full of **** sandwiches their mindless sycophants would eagerly swallow.

What is it exactly that you are 'angry' about? That Trump is president or that your beloved rat party ****ed over Bernie Sanders and half the rat party voting base, nominated probably the only person on the planet that could lose to Trump, or that HRC was such an inept piece of **** that she didnt even bother campaigning in states that she needed for a win? Is THAT what you are angry about?

ocean515 said:

I share your observation.

Further, in a spectacle that could haunt them in the future, video of House Dems singing "Na, Na, Na, Na" on the House floor yesterday would make a powerful background to the realities you described.

What will Dems be able to point at when voters are asking for answers? A group trying to find solutions, or themselves, owners of the problem, and guilty of doing nothing to resolved them?

Click to expand...

I think the singing Democrats was a result of them thinking the albatross of the ACA is finally gone from their necks and now tied around the Republican's neck. That ownership of healthcare finally passed from the Dems to the Reps. That may be so, at least until the senate gets around to voting. Then ownership of healthcare will probably pass right back to the Democrats.

But most Americans have short memories. In a couple of months after the Democrats filibuster Trumpcare, basically defeating it, most Americans will forget all about this healthcare fight. But next year when those states are down to but one insurance company, perhaps Iowa with none, depending on the cost of the premiums and how high the deductible, Americans will begin to remember. Then that song by the Democrats along with footage of the filibuster will come into play.

But we'll see.

jimbo said:

25% of the nation has preexisting conditions? I think you need to back that number up.

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That's in line with ASPE's estimate based on Medical Expenditure Panel Survey data.

It confirms that a large fraction of non-elderly Americans have pre-existing health conditions: at least 23 percent of Americans (61 million people) using a narrow definition based on eligibility criteria for pre-ACA state high-risk pools, or as many as 51 percent (133 million people) using a broader definition closer to the underwriting criteria used by insurers prior to the ACA. Any of these 133 million Americans could have been denied coverage, or offered coverage only at an exorbitant price, had they needed individual market health insurance before 2014.

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Perotista said:

I think the singing Democrats was a result of them thinking the albatross of the ACA is finally gone from their necks and now tied around the Republican's neck. That ownership of healthcare finally passed from the Dems to the Reps. That may be so, at least until the senate gets around to voting. Then ownership of healthcare will probably pass right back to the Democrats.

But most Americans have short memories. In a couple of months after the Democrats filibuster Trumpcare, basically defeating it, most Americans will forget all about this healthcare fight. But next year when those states are down to but one insurance company, perhaps Iowa with none, depending on the cost of the premiums and how high the deductible, Americans will begin to remember. Then that song by the Democrats along with footage of the filibuster will come into play.

But we'll see.

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Yep. The rats arent sad that the ACA has 'died'...they are elated they dont have to keep carrying that cross. Which makes their jumping for joy and celebration of this as stupid as the GOP party celebrations.

Perotista said:

I think the singing Democrats was a result of them thinking the albatross of the ACA is finally gone from their necks and now tied around the Republican's neck. That ownership of healthcare finally passed from the Dems to the Reps. That may be so, at least until the senate gets around to voting. Then ownership of healthcare will probably pass right back to the Democrats.

But most Americans have short memories. In a couple of months after the Democrats filibuster Trumpcare, basically defeating it, most Americans will forget all about this healthcare fight. But next year when those states are down to but one insurance company, perhaps Iowa with none, depending on the cost of the premiums and how high the deductible, Americans will begin to remember. Then that song by the Democrats along with footage of the filibuster will come into play.

But we'll see.

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I have yet to understand the messaging that tries to pass ownership of Obamacare to Republicans simply because they tried to do something to fix it.

I recognize the Dems are anxious to remove the concrete boots they wear as owners of it, but there is no logic to the claim Republicans own it because they tried to work on a fix for it.

Time will tell how the Dems work the media to keep the light off of them in the future. I expect it will be worse than I am expecting.

Perotista said:

Cause and effect? The pull out of insurance companies from Obamacare was announced last year, before Trump. Now the fact Iowa may not have a single insurance company to choose from, that was two or three days ago. But I agree with you in the fact that the ACA has been hanging around the Democrat's neck since it was first passed. The kindly Republicans have just removed that albatross from the Democrat's neck and tied it around their own. So yes, I think one can now say the Republicans own healthcare from yesterday until...who knows.

If I was a Democrat, I would be breathing a sigh of relief and down on my knees thanking the GOP. I think the Republicans just gave the House back to the Democrats in 2018. That is fine by me, I like divided government, more checks and balances.

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Why since yesterday?

Trump has been in office over 100 days. They could easily have passed bipartisan bandaid legislation to stabilize the markets until they could pass more comprehensive legislation. Their political calculus was to allow ACA to collapse on its own and failing that to sabotage ACA so they could gain a stronger political position. They have owned it since Trump took office.

CriticalThought said:

The GOP had the chance to fix Obamacare. They chose to gut it to give a tax cut to the wealthy. No matter what happens now, they own it.

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Keep in mind, though, the bill has only passed the House. But if it passes the Senate then I agree, the GOP owns it.