Why Doesn't Trump recind Obama's Executive Order 12333? (Or ahs he?)

eohrnberger · Mar 29, 2017

By this time, I'm pretty sure that everyone is fairly familiar with Obama's Executive Order 12333.

If not, here's a short recap.

Obama Expands Surveillance Powers on His Way Out
With mere days left before President-elect Donald Trump takes the White House, President Barack Obama’s administration just finalized rules to make it easier for the nation’s intelligence agencies to share unfiltered information about innocent people.

New rules issued by the Obama administration under Executive Order 12333 will let the NSA—which collects information under that authority with little oversight, transparency, or concern for privacy—share the raw streams of communications it intercepts directly with agencies including the FBI, the DEA, and the Department of Homeland Security, according to a report today by the New York Times.

That’s a huge and troubling shift in the way those intelligence agencies receive information collected by the NSA. Domestic agencies like the FBI are subject to more privacy protections, including warrant requirements. Previously, the NSA shared data with these agencies only after it had screened the data, filtering out unnecessary personal information, including about innocent people whose communications were swept up the NSA’s massive surveillance operations.

As the New York Times put it, with the new rules, the government claims to be “reducing the risk that the N.S.A. will fail to recognize that a piece of information would be valuable to another agency, but increasing the risk that officials will see private information about innocent people.”
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/01/obama-expands-surveillance-powers-his-way-out

Obama Administration Releases Long Awaited New E.O. 12333 Rules on Sharing of Raw Signals Intelligence Information Within IC

N.S.A. Gets More Latitude to Share Intercepted Communications - NYT

So you have the NSA which is indiscriminately hoovering up ever bit of electronic communication in the US, every cell phone conversation, every fax, every email, every tweet, every text, via network taps placed on secret floors of builds at both Mae East and Mae West, as well via large network connections at all the major communications providers.

The NSA has built / is in the process of building at least two that we know of, 2 million square foot data data centers, one being the Utah Data Center and the other being in Fort Mead, I believe, to hold all this data and to data mine it.

All that data that on US citizens that NSA collects is now available for the casual perusing, and leaking, and character assassination of others, as is typically seen 3rd world dictatorships, i.e a nation's intelligence agencies being used to attack the political opposition, by the Intelligence bureaucracy, as well as the larger government bureaucracy, which are all against Trump, but could also be used against any US citizen.

The leaking of such classified information is a felony. These leakers must be found and criminally prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

The damage that Obama's EO has done to the privacy of the electorate must be undone. It cannot be allowed to stand.

The capacity and capability of NSA to spy on the US electorate must also be dismantled, and quickly, before it's too late.

So why doesn't Trump just issue an EO, and rescind Obama's rules of expanded access? It would make it far more difficult for the leakers to gain access to the classified intel, which has caused this administration so much trouble.

Absentglare · Mar 29, 2017

eohrnberger said:
By this time, I'm pretty sure that everyone is fairly familiar with Obama's Executive Order 12333.

If not, here's a short recap.

Obama Administration Releases Long Awaited New E.O. 12333 Rules on Sharing of Raw Signals Intelligence Information Within IC

N.S.A. Gets More Latitude to Share Intercepted Communications - NYT

So you have the NSA which is indiscriminately hoovering up ever bit of electronic communication in the US, every cell phone conversation, every fax, every email, every tweet, every text, via network taps placed on secret floors of builds at both Mae East and Mae West, as well via large network connections at all the major communications providers.

The NSA has built / is in the process of building at least two that we know of, 2 million square foot data data centers, one being the Utah Data Center and the other being in Fort Mead, I believe, to hold all this data and to data mine it.

All that data that on US citizens that NSA collects is now available for the casual perusing, and leaking, and character assassination of others, as is typically seen 3rd world dictatorships, i.e a nation's intelligence agencies being used to attack the political opposition, by the Intelligence bureaucracy, as well as the larger government bureaucracy, which are all against Trump, but could also be used against any US citizen.

The leaking of such classified information is a felony. These leakers must be found and criminally prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

The damage that Obama's EO has done to the privacy of the electorate must be undone. It cannot be allowed to stand.

The capacity and capability of NSA to spy on the US electorate must also be dismantled, and quickly, before it's too late.

So why doesn't Trump just issue an EO, and rescind Obama's rules of expanded access? It would make it far more difficult for the leakers to gain access to the classified intel, which has caused this administration so much trouble.

The issue seems to lie in your assumptions. I'm not sure which one you're making, but perhaps it's the idea that President Trump actually gives a **** about us.

Mac77 · Mar 29, 2017

eohrnberger said:
By this time, I'm pretty sure that everyone is fairly familiar with Obama's Executive Order 12333.

If not, here's a short recap.

Obama Administration Releases Long Awaited New E.O. 12333 Rules on Sharing of Raw Signals Intelligence Information Within IC

N.S.A. Gets More Latitude to Share Intercepted Communications - NYT

So you have the NSA which is indiscriminately hoovering up ever bit of electronic communication in the US, every cell phone conversation, every fax, every email, every tweet, every text, via network taps placed on secret floors of builds at both Mae East and Mae West, as well via large network connections at all the major communications providers.

The NSA has built / is in the process of building at least two that we know of, 2 million square foot data data centers, one being the Utah Data Center and the other being in Fort Mead, I believe, to hold all this data and to data mine it.

All that data that on US citizens that NSA collects is now available for the casual perusing, and leaking, and character assassination of others, as is typically seen 3rd world dictatorships, i.e a nation's intelligence agencies being used to attack the political opposition, by the Intelligence bureaucracy, as well as the larger government bureaucracy, which are all against Trump, but could also be used against any US citizen.

The leaking of such classified information is a felony. These leakers must be found and criminally prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

The damage that Obama's EO has done to the privacy of the electorate must be undone. It cannot be allowed to stand.

The capacity and capability of NSA to spy on the US electorate must also be dismantled, and quickly, before it's too late.

So why doesn't Trump just issue an EO, and rescind Obama's rules of expanded access? It would make it far more difficult for the leakers to gain access to the classified intel, which has caused this administration so much trouble.

I have been wondering the same thing

Maybe its because any game liberals can think up conservatives can learn to play

I'm pretty sure obama and his flunkies still speak to foreigners of interest and now its trump who gets to "wiretap" them

eohrnberger · Mar 29, 2017

Mac77 said:
I have been wondering the same thing

Maybe its because any game liberals can think up conservatives can learn to play

I'm pretty sure obama and his flunkies still speak to foreigners of interest and now its trump who gets to "wiretap" them

Yeah, that's one of the things about all this that I'm kinda worried about, that it becomes common going forward.

In my view, the underlying threat and damn near elimination, of the right to privacy of the electorate, in that it appears to have become common place to 'unmask' US citizen's names when caught in the drag net of NSA's electronic 'hoovering', is far more a threat to the future than anything else. This needs to be terminated, and previous privacy disciplines returned to the fore.
NSA's data centers need to be terminated.
NSA's ability to 'hoover' all domestic electronic communication needs to be terminated.
Hell, 1/2 the intelligence bureaucracy probably needs to be terminated (idle hands do the devil's work and all)

In the midst of all this, we have confirmation that Obama admin did in deed have the NSA surveil the Trump campaign for political purposes.

Obama’s Former Asst. Defense Secretary ADMITS ON MSNBC Obama Admin Spied on Trump (VIDEO)
Cristina Laila Mar 28th, 2017

Former Assistant Defense Secretary under the Obama administration, Evelyn Farkas admitted that the Obama administration was trying to collect as much intelligence as possible on the Trump administration.

Evelyn Farkas: “…Frankly speaking the people on The Hill..get as much information as you can. Get as much intelligence as you can before President Obama leaves the administration because I had a fear that somehow that information would disappear with the senior people who left so it would be hidden away in the bureaucracy…
Ummm that the Trump folks if they found out how we knew what we knew about the Trump staff dealing with Russians that they would try to compromise the sources and methods meaning that we would no longer have access to that intelligence.”

Obama's Former Asst. Defense Secretary ADMITS ON MSNBC Obama Admin Spied on Trump (VIDEO)

The use of the present administration of the nation's intelligence organizations to surveil and collect intelligence on the opposing party's presidential candidate for political purposes. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. Doubly so if it becomes common place going forward.
This practice certainly must be terminated.
This tolerance of this practice certainly must be terminated.

And still, as of yet, not a shred of solid evidence that Trump, nor his campaign, colluding with the Russians.
Not a shred of solid evidence that the Russians had any impact on the election results, in spite of the constant braying from the left about it.

If you want to look for collusion with the Russians, take a look at the Uranium One deal, the Podestra brothers, and how they and the Clintons profited millions from that entire adventure. There's your real Russian collusion folks.

Abbazorkzog · Mar 29, 2017

Donald Trump will not rescind Obama-era mass-surveillance. He's liable to expand it, in fact.

Hawkeye10 · Mar 29, 2017

Abbazorkzog said:
Donald Trump will not rescind Obama-era mass-surveillance. He's liable to expand it, in fact.

Ya, not only has Trump never been pro liberty (He was massively scarred by decades of high NYC crime,) but now he is trying to play nice with Deep State in some lost hope that they will not impeach him.

Trumps biggest downside for me has because of the Russia nonsense gotten worse.

Exquisitor · Mar 29, 2017

Absentglare said:
The issue seems to lie in your assumptions. I'm not sure which one you're making, but perhaps it's the idea that President Trump actually gives a **** about us.

You are in illusion if you think Trump cares or does not care about anybody.

There is only one person who cares about anyone.

We will do what we are programmed to according to stimulus-response, very little of what we do is creative, even a creative person is only regurgitating stimulated responses.

The question is what kind of response are you going to stimulate him to give?

Tanngrisnir · Mar 29, 2017

eohrnberger said:
In the midst of all this, we have confirmation that Obama admin did in deed have the NSA surveil the Trump campaign for political purposes.

What a quaint and rather hilariously inaccurate assertion. Nothing she said supports your contention. It's laughably false on the face of it.

If you want to look for collusion with the Russians, take a look at the Uranium One deal, the Podestra brothers, and how they and the Clintons profited millions from that entire adventure. There's your real Russian collusion folks.

No, thanks, I'm quite happy to let the investigations into Trump continue, as is any rational adult.

holbritter · Mar 29, 2017

eohrnberger said:
By this time, I'm pretty sure that everyone is fairly familiar with Obama's Executive Order 12333.

If not, here's a short recap.

Obama Administration Releases Long Awaited New E.O. 12333 Rules on Sharing of Raw Signals Intelligence Information Within IC

N.S.A. Gets More Latitude to Share Intercepted Communications - NYT

So you have the NSA which is indiscriminately hoovering up ever bit of electronic communication in the US, every cell phone conversation, every fax, every email, every tweet, every text, via network taps placed on secret floors of builds at both Mae East and Mae West, as well via large network connections at all the major communications providers.

The NSA has built / is in the process of building at least two that we know of, 2 million square foot data data centers, one being the Utah Data Center and the other being in Fort Mead, I believe, to hold all this data and to data mine it.

All that data that on US citizens that NSA collects is now available for the casual perusing, and leaking, and character assassination of others, as is typically seen 3rd world dictatorships, i.e a nation's intelligence agencies being used to attack the political opposition, by the Intelligence bureaucracy, as well as the larger government bureaucracy, which are all against Trump, but could also be used against any US citizen.

The leaking of such classified information is a felony. These leakers must be found and criminally prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

The damage that Obama's EO has done to the privacy of the electorate must be undone. It cannot be allowed to stand.

The capacity and capability of NSA to spy on the US electorate must also be dismantled, and quickly, before it's too late.

So why doesn't Trump just issue an EO, and rescind Obama's rules of expanded access? It would make it far more difficult for the leakers to gain access to the classified intel, which has caused this administration so much trouble.

Good question. But if he did that now, there would be a hysterical reaction that he's trying to cover something up.

eohrnberger · Mar 29, 2017

holbritter said:
Good question. But if he did that now, there would be a hysterical reaction that he's trying to cover something up.

Yeah, after my post I was thinking that this would surely be the reaction from the fake news and dems as well.

I suppose one can only hope that the House and Senate Intelligence Oversight Committees will do their jobs well and thoroughly, and fully report out at the end of their investigations.

As to the clear and present dangers and threats to US citizens privacy, those things most certainly must be terminated.

Van Basten · Mar 29, 2017

You think Trump cares about your privacy? Lmao.

Mac77 · Mar 29, 2017

eohrnberger said:
Yeah, that's one of the things about all this that I'm kinda worried about, that it becomes common going forward.

In my view, the underlying threat and damn near elimination, of the right to privacy of the electorate, in that it appears to have become common place to 'unmask' US citizen's names when caught in the drag net of NSA's electronic 'hoovering', is far more a threat to the future than anything else. This needs to be terminated, and previous privacy disciplines returned to the fore.
NSA's data centers need to be terminated.
NSA's ability to 'hoover' all domestic electronic communication needs to be terminated.
Hell, 1/2 the intelligence bureaucracy probably needs to be terminated (idle hands do the devil's work and all)

In the midst of all this, we have confirmation that Obama admin did in deed have the NSA surveil the Trump campaign for political purposes.

The use of the present administration of the nation's intelligence organizations to surveil and collect intelligence on the opposing party's presidential candidate for political purposes. That sounds like a recipe for disaster. Doubly so if it becomes common place going forward.
This practice certainly must be terminated.
This tolerance of this practice certainly must be terminated.

And still, as of yet, not a shred of solid evidence that Trump, nor his campaign, colluding with the Russians.
Not a shred of solid evidence that the Russians had any impact on the election results, in spite of the constant braying from the left about it.

If you want to look for collusion with the Russians, take a look at the Uranium One deal, the Podestra brothers, and how they and the Clintons profited millions from that entire adventure. There's your real Russian collusion folks.

My comment was tongue-in-cheek

but let the record show that obama took the first step toward making America a banana republic

eohrnberger · Mar 29, 2017

Mac77 said:
My comment was tongue-in-cheek

but let the record show that obama took the first step toward making America a banana republic

Your comment may have been tongue-in-cheek, but your conclusion you certainly appear to be true.

The greater challenge before the nation is how to walk back from that ledge.

Mac77 · Mar 29, 2017

eohrnberger said:
Your comment may have been tongue-in-cheek, but your conclusion you certainly appear to be true.

The greater challenge before the nation is how to walk back from that ledge.

I dont know how

What it amounts to is unilateral disarmament when the other side is building more atomic bombs to use on you

eohrnberger · Mar 29, 2017

Mac77 said:
I dont know how

What it amounts to is unilateral disarmament when the other side is building more atomic bombs to use on you

One part of the problem is the politically biased, politics and ideology over the good of the nation exhibited by the federal government bureaucracy. The only solution is to fire them all for that very reason.

The other part of the problem is an intelligence community which has grown its power and intrusion far beyond its charter.
Congress need pass legislation that brings this behemoth to heel.

From my view, between these two things, most of the problems would be solved. Granted, a steep challenge to anyone that's willing to take that on.

Mac77 · Mar 30, 2017

eohrnberger said:
One part of the problem is the politically biased, politics and ideology over the good of the nation exhibited by the federal government bureaucracy. The only solution is to fire them all for that very reason.

The other part of the problem is an intelligence community which has grown its power and intrusion far beyond its charter.
Congress need pass legislation that brings this behemoth to heel.

From my view, between these two things, most of the problems would be solved. Granted, a steep challenge to anyone that's willing to take that on.

The bureaRats are playing for their jobs.

They see trump as a threat to the washington establishment that created them and they will do anything to stop him

They are Frankenstens Monster and the don't want to see any harm befall the Master of their world

eohrnberger · Mar 30, 2017

Mac77 said:
The bureaRats are playing for their jobs.

They see trump as a threat to the washington establishment that created them and they will do anything to stop him

They are Frankenstens Monster and the don't want to see any harm befall the Master of their world

It's true. Where do you think all the leaks that damage Trump, little more than rumor, gossip, and innuendo with little substance - even after 8 months of continued braying, are coming from?

Enabled by a rats as well, with EO 12333, so those bureaRats can hide with far greater anonymity.

It'd be one thing if this was in the country's best interests, but that's clearly not a factor in these people's decision making. However, just as clearly, ideology, party and politics are.

DA60 · Mar 30, 2017

No offense people, but how can some of you be so politically naive to think Trump would have recinded this...or ANY near-future POTUS.

Politicians LOVE power - ADORE it. And they hate like stink to give it up - ANY of it.

Why would Trump recind the law? I never thought for a second he would - despite his 'outsider' reputation. That would mean less power. No chance - none - unless he is forced to by the people or a court.

Barring a mass uprising against it, you better get used to this level of government intrusion. And I guarantee you it will continue to get worse...bit by bit, as quietly as possible - always using 'national security' or 'fighting terrorism' or some other new fear causing term as the justification.

And it utterly disgusts me.

To me, America is about Freedom - this ain't freedom.

Hawkeye10 · Mar 30, 2017

DA60 said:
No offense people, but how can some of you be so politically naive?

Politicians LOVE power. And they hate like stink to give it up - ANY of it.

Why would Trump recind the law? I never thought for a second he would - despite his 'outsider' reputation. That would mean less power. No chance - none - unless he is forced to by the people or a court.

Barring a mass uprising against it, you better get used to this level of government intrusion. And I guarantee you it will continue to get worse...bit by bit, as quietly as possible - always using 'national security' or 'fighting terrorism' or some other new fear causing term as the justification.

And it utterly disgusts me.

To me, America is about Freedom - this ain't freedom.

Our government grabs grabs and grabs again for more and more power, with often lame excuses.

Not enough people care, or can even see it.

Way too many people are too trusting.

OR SOMETHING

DA60 · Mar 30, 2017

Hawkeye10 said:
Our government grabs grabs and grabs again for more and more power, with often lame excuses.

Not enough people care, or can even see it.

Way too many people are too trusting.

OR SOMETHING

I agree with you on this 100%.

eohrnberger · Mar 30, 2017

Van Basten said:
You think Trump cares about your privacy? Lmao.

Clearly Obama and his administration didn't.

Even if not for privacy, Trump rescinding Obama's EO 12333 would put a stop to the leaks, wouldn't it?

Van Basten · Mar 31, 2017

eohrnberger said:
Clearly Obama and his administration didn't.

Even if not for privacy, Trump rescinding Obama's EO 12333 would put a stop to the leaks, wouldn't it?

It's almost as if there's a bipartisan effort to encroach on our right to privacy.

Why Doesn't Trump recind Obama's Executive Order 12333? (Or ahs he?)

eohrnberger

Absentglare

Mac77

eohrnberger

Abbazorkzog

Zapatista Libertarian

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man

Exquisitor

Educator

Tanngrisnir

holbritter

eohrnberger

Van Basten

Black Is Smart

Mac77

eohrnberger

Mac77

eohrnberger

Mac77

eohrnberger

DA60

Hawkeye10

Buttermilk Man

DA60

eohrnberger

Van Basten

Black Is Smart