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How Long Before Trump Goes Back To Being a Liberal

Perotista said:
You're probably right. This leads me back to when all of this began, 2009. Polls back then showed 80% of all Americans were at least satisfied with their health insurance. What was needed was something to get those without insurance, insurance. The Democrats decided destroy the old system in order to accomplish that. They paid the price in 2010 for that. Now we see that Obamacare is in deep doo doo or the people are. Yet even knowing that before long there will be states, possibly as soon as 2019 with no insurance companies, Democrats are willing to fight tooth and nail to preserve it..

I always thought congress should have concentrated on the uninsured and left the rest alone. I think that was possible, how I don't know. I not an expert in these things. Perhaps a VA style healthcare system for the uninsured. But I suppose that system would have the same problems as the VA.

Single Payer, Americans are willing to have taxes taken out of their paycheck for social security and medicare, both bipartisan affairs. At least voting wise. Obamacare wasn't. Would a majority of Americans agree to that? The federal government being the insurance company for everyone with a tax like FICA taken out of everyone's paycheck?
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ACA did very little that effected the group market (ie mainly those who get their insurance through their job (what you call the old system)) The biggest change was the inclusion of Minimal Essential Benefits (ie coverage for things like maternity care, substance abuse, mental health care, etc)) and despite the dire warnings from repubs about how that would lead to disaster, the group market remains stable

If the group market remains stable, and the majority of people continue to receive their insurance (which they are satisfied with) through their employer, I doubt that support for a single payer system will increase. It is too big of a change and a risk for most people. However, the republicans would like to eliminate the ACA requirement that employers with more than 50 employees provide coverage and the tax deductions the employer gets for providing it. If they do pass a law to do that, many employers will get rid of their employees insurance and that will definitely (IMO) increase demand for single payer

IOW, it seems that any and every action the right can take to undermine ACA will only weaken the for-profit section of health care and increase the likelihood that this nation will implement a single payer, govt run, health care system
 
ModerateGOP said:
Oh look this is something very relevant to this thread RINO Trump complaining about conservatives: Trump on Freedom Caucus: 'We must fight them' | Fox News
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It is pretty stupid to post a story about Trump fighting to promote the Republican agenda in order to support your inane argument that Trump is going to become a liberal

But it does explain why you did not quote what Trump actually said:
The Freedom Caucus will hurt the entire Republican agenda if they don't get on the team, & fast. We must fight them, & Dems, in 2018!
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WCH said:
Making America great again isn't a partisan issue.
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it is a rabid right red herring. America is great, what Trump claims he will do to make America 'great again' is mostly snake oil and bull droppings. Do note his big promises on his to-do list have hung fire. The ban and repealing the ACA.

The true slogan would be turn back time to when white middle class hetro christians felt comfortable- to hell with everyone else... :peace
 
ModerateGOP said:
Background:The first three are three big ticket items that if any other Republican did or stated that they would do on their campaign, would automatically get them ridiculed for being a RINO. The Difference? Trump said he would do the opposite. The difference? Trump lied. Trump doesn't know how to be an actual Republican.

Do people just love what they hear and don't care about the reality anymore?
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Trump is a hypocrite and a serial liar. Welcome to 2016. :mrgreen:

Now, to be fair, everyone is occasionally a hypocrite and a liar. We all do it, that's life. Politicians usually get called out because pretty much everything they say gets recorded and looked at by someone unfriendly to their views.

But... yeah, Trump lies and flips at the drop of a hat, is frequently hypocritical, his view of reality is remarkably unstable, and he can't be trusted to follow through. (He is loyal, but more to the person than the policy.) Thus, it is slowly dawning on Republicans in Congress that despite have a legislative majority and the White House, they still may not get what they want. So it goes.
 
sangha said:
ACA did very little that effected the group market (ie mainly those who get their insurance through their job (what you call the old system)) The biggest change was the inclusion of Minimal Essential Benefits (ie coverage for things like maternity care, substance abuse, mental health care, etc)) and despite the dire warnings from repubs about how that would lead to disaster, the group market remains stable

If the group market remains stable, and the majority of people continue to receive their insurance (which they are satisfied with) through their employer, I doubt that support for a single payer system will increase. It is too big of a change and a risk for most people. However, the republicans would like to eliminate the ACA requirement that employers with more than 50 employees provide coverage and the tax deductions the employer gets for providing it. If they do pass a law to do that, many employers will get rid of their employees insurance and that will definitely (IMO) increase demand for single payer

IOW, it seems that any and every action the right can take to undermine ACA will only weaken the for-profit section of health care and increase the likelihood that this nation will implement a single payer, govt run, health care system
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We use my Wife's insurance she gets through her company. We're paying a lot more for less.
 
sangha said:
It is pretty stupid to post a story about Trump fighting to promote the Republican agenda in order to support your inane argument that Trump is going to become a liberal
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Conservatives are the ones complaining that Trump's agenda isn't Conservative enough. I guess you just don't get the difference between conservatives and republicans, but there are a lot of different types of "republicans."
 
ModerateGOP said:
Background:
1. Trump has already tried to push through a highly polarizing Health Care Bill
2. Trump has stated he is open to working with democrats
3. Trump is working with Labor Unions to "build the wall"; Foreign contracts to build pipelines etc...

4. He is signing E.O.s Left and Right.
5. He is wasting taxpayer money on NYC, Florida, and DC Trips.

The first three are three big ticket items that if any other Republican did or stated that they would do on their campaign, would automatically get them ridiculed for being a RINO. The Difference? Trump said he would do the opposite. The difference? Trump lied. Trump doesn't know how to be an actual Republican.

Do people just love what they hear and don't care about the reality anymore?
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1. Other Republican Presidents waste money.

2. Other Republican Presidents worked with Democrats.

3. Other Republican Presidents signed tons of E.O.s

Trump's presidency so far has been a typical Republican presidency with a fair amount of shear incompetence thrown in. You guys own him.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
1. Other Republican Presidents waste money.

2. Other Republican Presidents worked with Democrats.

3. Other Republican Presidents signed tons of E.O.s
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You got half of it right, now how is Trump different? He's not yet they thought he would be.
 
ModerateGOP said:
Conservatives are the ones complaining that Trump's agenda isn't Conservative enough.
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Umm, did you forget what the thread you started is about, or have you just given up trying to defend your inane prediction that Trump is going to become a liberal again?

Even better, will you even begin trying to explain how a Trump tweet promoting the republican agenda and urging people to fight the Democrats is a sign that Trump is becoming a liberal?

I guess you just don't get the difference between conservatives and republicans, but there are a lot of different types of "republicans."
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Are you saying that the republican agenda Trumps wants to fight for is not conservative?

Please, do tell. I would love to hear the whoppers you got on that claim
 
sangha said:
Umm, did you forget what the thread you started is about, or have you just given up trying to defend your inane prediction that Trump is going to become a liberal again?

Even better, will you even begin trying to explain how a Trump tweet promoting the republican agenda and urging people to fight the Democrats is a sign that Trump is becoming a liberal?

Are you saying that the republican agenda Trumps wants to fight for is not conservative?
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It's not conservative enough for members of the freedom caucus. How many different ways do you want me to say this? BTW, thanks for admitting that Trump was once a liberal.
 
ModerateGOP said:
It's not conservative enough for members of the freedom caucus.
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I did not ask if it is conservative enough for the Freedom caucus though I do not blame you for, once again, not even trying to defend your inane claims

Is the republican agenda Trumps wants to fight for conservative?
 
sangha said:
I did not ask if it is conservative enough for the Freedom caucus though I do not blame you for, once again, not even trying to defend your inane claims

Is the republican agenda Trumps wants to fight for conservative?
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Are the freedom caucus members members of the Republican Party?
 
ModerateGOP said:
Are you telling me that if any other republican President promised to repeal and replace obamacare and utterly failed as quickly as Trump did, that the people screaming repeal and replace Obamacare at rallies would be A-OK with that? Really? I guarantee you that if Romney tried to get Ryan's bill passed if he was President right now, the right wing radio hosts would be calling for his resignation. Or worse.
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Oh look, a question as if you're making a point. Even though you're trying to deflect from your OP blowing up in your face I'll give it a try. Here's my answer "who knows". but if you were aware of how republicans and the conservative media lied and pandered to you for the last 7 years about Obamacare, you would have known it was going to fail. the fact that they didn't immediately try to repeal Obamacare should have been your first clue. Well actually the lying and pandering the last 7 years should have been the first clue.

Now that I've attempted to answer your vague deflecting question, lets get back to the fact that I've proven your first "big ticket item" was false. Trump campaigned on universal coverage. that could have been better than Obamacare. And the official republican narrative was repeal and replace. Please respond to that, not me.

Oh and your second "big ticket item" proves republicans were obstructing President Obama. Again, thanks for admitting that.
 
Vern said:
Oh look, a question as if you're making a point. Even though you're trying to deflect from your OP blowing up in your face I'll give it a try. Here's my answer "who knows". but if you were aware of how republicans and the conservative media lied and pandered to you for the last 7 years about Obamacare, you would have known it was going to fail. the fact that they didn't immediately try to repeal Obamacare should have been your first clue. Well actually the lying and pandering the last 7 years should have been the first clue.

Now that I've attempted to answer your vague deflecting question, lets get back to the fact that I've proven your first "big ticket item" was false. Trump campaigned on universal coverage. that could have been better than Obamacare. And the official republican narrative was repeal and replace. Please respond to that, not me.

Oh and your second "big ticket item" proves republicans were obstructing President Obama. Again, thanks for admitting that.
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I'm not sure what world you are living in but he did not run on universal health care, or at least that's certainly not what the base thought. He clearly chanted repeal and replace at his rallies. The Conservatives believed that meant get rid of it altogether and replace it with stuff they like.

He did say he would cover everyone numerous times, but I wasn't the one who believed it. Yeah, I bet he was for universal healthcare since that's all he talked about when he described what he was going to replace it with. But then, why did he go along with the Republican Health Care RINO bill? Maybe it was just to make sure it failed? That way he could try something else with democrats??? Which is exactly what he has ended up doing. WHOA!

No one really seemed to care what he wanted to replace it with...
 
ModerateGOP said:
I'm not sure what world you are living in but he did not run on universal health care, or at least that's certainly not what the base thought. He clearly chanted repeal and replace at his rallies. The Conservatives believed that meant get rid of it altogether and replace it with stuff they like.

He did say he would cover everyone numerous times, but I wasn't the one who believed it. Yeah, I bet he was for universal healthcare since that's all he talked about when he described what he was going to replace it with. But then, why did he go along with the Republican Health Care RINO bill? Maybe it was just to make sure it failed? That way he could try something else with democrats??? Which is exactly what he has ended up doing. WHOA!

No one really seemed to care what he wanted to replace it with...
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ooooo, good catch with the "that's certainly not what the base thought." But we really don't care what dumb people thought they heard. We are discussing you starting a thread with claims that blew up in your face. You simply need to explain how you interpret "No one will lose coverage. There will be insurance for everybody. Healthcare will be a “lot less expensive” for everyone ". so keep you can your desperate deflecting questions. that's just you trying to convince yourself.
 
ModerateGOP said:
Are the freedom caucus members members of the Republican Party?
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I see you still can not bring yourself to answer a simple question because the answer shows how inane your beliefs are

Is the republican agenda Trumps wants to fight for conservative?
 
sangha said:
ACA did very little that effected the group market (ie mainly those who get their insurance through their job (what you call the old system)) The biggest change was the inclusion of Minimal Essential Benefits (ie coverage for things like maternity care, substance abuse, mental health care, etc)) and despite the dire warnings from repubs about how that would lead to disaster, the group market remains stable

If the group market remains stable, and the majority of people continue to receive their insurance (which they are satisfied with) through their employer, I doubt that support for a single payer system will increase. It is too big of a change and a risk for most people. However, the republicans would like to eliminate the ACA requirement that employers with more than 50 employees provide coverage and the tax deductions the employer gets for providing it. If they do pass a law to do that, many employers will get rid of their employees insurance and that will definitely (IMO) increase demand for single payer

IOW, it seems that any and every action the right can take to undermine ACA will only weaken the for-profit section of health care and increase the likelihood that this nation will implement a single payer, govt run, health care system
Click to expand...

I don't know what will happen, my predictions were off this or should I say last year. Even so, I think healthcare won't be taken up again until after the 2018 midterms. There are Republicans breathing a sigh of relief that Trumpcare wasn't passed. Some think Obamacare is dying a slow natural death. Their idea is to do nothing and let more insurance companies leave Obamacare and let premiums and deductibles rise. For those oppose, is that a sound strategy? I don't know.

But I suppose government run health care isn't that far off. If so, people better hope it is better than the VA.
 
sangha said:
I see you still can not bring yourself to answer a simple question because the answer shows how inane your beliefs are

Is the republican agenda Trumps wants to fight for conservative?
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Try to put two and two together here. If the freedom caucus members don't think Trump's agenda is conservative, what do you think they think it is? They think it is too liberal!

Me, I think it's smoke and mirrors and that he is mocking conservative and/or republican values. it won't be too long now that he reverts to his liberal ways once enough people in the party wake up and realize he conned them all.
 
sangha said:
Try and tell me if the republican agenda Trump tweeted about is conservative or liberal
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He's a liberal masquerading as a conservative and very likely would like to see all their ideas fail. In other words a troll.
 
ModerateGOP said:
He's a liberal masquerading as a conservative and very likely would like to see all their ideas fail. In other words a troll.
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Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better but the rest of world knows that he is one of you
 
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