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Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source says

Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

haymarket said:
you lost me on your pig story.

Are you concerned about the latest identified leaker of classified information - DEVIN NUNES of California?
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Very cute - I see you're not serious. Good luck with believing the politically motivated illegal leaking of confidential, personal information by your government agencies is no big deal.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

CanadaJohn said:
Very cute - I see you're not serious. Good luck with believing the politically motivated illegal leaking of confidential, personal information by your government agencies is no big deal.
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I am dead on serious. Devin Nunes leaked information yesterday.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

The repubs will have to overcome Comey's testimony and that after weeks of investigating, "no evidence to support those tweets" from Trump. That was corroborated by Mike Rogers, director of the NSA.

That is a difficult hurdle to overcome.

Right now, Trump is losing on this. Comey > Trump.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

haymarket said:
I am dead on serious. Devin Nunes leaked information yesterday.
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Really? What information did Nunes "leak"? Are you certain that President Trump didn't authorize Nunes to share the information with the media and the public when Nunes held his press availability outside the White House?
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

CanadaJohn said:
Really? What information did Nunes "leak"? Are you certain that President Trump didn't authorize Nunes to share the information with the media and the public when Nunes held his press availability outside the White House?
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He went to a party outside his committee leaking information that should have stayed within the committee.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

Master PO said:
the president has the power to declassify any information.
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Did he do that?

Is it part of the normal checks and balances of one branch upon the other to take information to them while you are the chief person on the committee investigating possible criminal behavior they are being accused of ?
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

haymarket said:
Did he do that?
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since he looked at the information that would be the case not just subject to the committee

the problem was the execution of how the congressmen went about it.

he went to the speaker, then the press and then the president which he apologized for.

however people seemed to be more pissed because he went to the president, but no one is pissed because he went to the press.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

Master PO said:
since he looked at the information that would be the case not just subject to the committee

the problem was the execution of how the congressmen went about it.

he went to the speaker, then the press and then the president which he apologized for.

however people seemed to be more pissed because he went to the president, but no one is pissed because he went to the press.
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I see nobody praising him for going to the press. Do you?

Devin Nunes is doing more single handedly to get us a Special Prosecutor or Select Committee than anybody in Washington DC. Lets hope he keeps this up.
 
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Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

CanadaJohn said:
Two things:

1. I'm not a Trump apologist - I too think the Republicans made a bad mistake nominating him but given the choice, America made the right one as opposed to another go round with the corrupt Clintons.

2. Your analogy with the pig fails because it's not detailed enough - a true analogy would be if someone told you Jack stabbed your neighbour's pig and killed it and in reality Jack actually beat it to death with a baseball bat. The end result would still be a dead pig, but you'd claim it was all a lie because no pigs were stabbed. You're all about the detail of the method as opposed to the substance of the result.

You can hate Trump all you want - that's not unnatural in today's political climate - but you can't argue the fact that what appears to have happened under the Obama administration's Justice Department is at the very least troubling and entirely likely to have been illegal, at least as it relates to the leaking of information to the media.
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So I guess this means that you have viewed the evidence against Obama, Right? Or is it really just your opinion based on scant allegations and rumors? BTW if Jack truly beat the neighbors pig with a bat certainly the evidence of that would be necessary to determine his guilt. Where did the assertion come from that says that it was a stabbing or a bat instead of something else? I mean if we are going to be fair and logical and let the evidence show us the way, we ****ing need evidence not what some politician told us. Of course logically circumstantial evidence could give us confidence to make an assumption. For example if Jack doesnt own a bat but has a collection of knives. Or that Jack is baseball player and an exceptional batter. In the end though the fact that jack might of done damning actions doesnt make him actually guilty. Jack could be, being framed.

The same goes with Trump he could be, being framed or Obama could be, being framed. The public certain is lacking enough information to pass permanent judgement. Personally I find it a possibility that Trump has done something very bad and Obama too. If either or both get convicted of something or something along those lines it would surprise me. So I encourage an thorough investigation covering Trump, Obama and whoever else could be guilty of anything. Of course it should be a independent investigation. One that doesnt take dictates from the president.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

haymarket said:
I see nobody praising him for going to the press. Do you?
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i said i don't see people pissed because he went to the press, the press of course in not going to complain he went to them.

no i don't really think i going to see any praise since he didn't follow procedure
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

Master PO said:
i said i don't see people pissed because he went to the press, the press of course in not going to complain he went to them.

no i don't really think i going to see any praise since he didn't follow procedure
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well he now cancelled next Tuesdays open hearing of his committee so the cover up is in full swing.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

haymarket said:
well he now cancelled next Tuesdays open hearing of his committee so the cover up is in full swing.
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i believe it was because the NSA reports he is waiting on will not be delivered until sometime next week.

they were supposed to be delivered today
 
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Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

Media_Truth said:
Trump's tweet! First it was "bugs", then it was "surveillance", then it was nothing. All proven wrong by the FBI, CIA, and a congressional committee. But FOX News is going to continue to report their lies, in support of a lying president. What do you find true about it?
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Perhaps you should actually read the story. With what you said here you obviously didn't.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

Redress said:
I find it scary when we have replaced facts in political discussion with speculative conspiracy nonsense. "Well, it could possibly be true, so let's treat it as if it is!" Not a good strategy to get at the truth.
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So you think that what Vox said is beyond the realm of possibility?
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

Redress said:
If you are gathering information on a mafia don, people who call the mafia don might get recorded. Those people calling the mafia don are not being spied on, or at least not directly.
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But those people not covered by the FISA warrant must have their identities masked. Certainly Gen Flynns was not since the transcript was leaked to the NY Times.

Nunez says he was made aware of unmasked transcripts of conversations of members of the Trump transition team.

The real story is buried in partisanship: we cannot allow our intelligence agencies to go to was against its civilian masters. The military is answerable to civilian control, and it seems that the intelligence agencies have forgotten they are too.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

apdst said:
You couldn't be more wrong. American citizens's identities are required to be masked in ANY kind of FISA surveillance: wiretap, listening device, any other kind of electronic surveillance and any kind of physical surveillance. You people are uncredible...:lamo
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Trump campaign surrogates are part of the investigation now.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

Kal'Stang said:
So you think that what Vox said is beyond the realm of possibility?
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It is like you kinda keep wanting to make my point for me. I don't consider Trump being a space alien to be beyond the realm of possibility, but I prefer to deal in facts.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

Redress said:
It is like you kinda keep wanting to make my point for me. I don't consider Trump being a space alien to be beyond the realm of possibility, but I prefer to deal in facts.
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Hyperbole ftw! Unlike Trump being an alien, this has far more likelyhood of actually happening. It's not like our government does not have a history of hiding the truth or of trying to blame others for something that they did. Or is that science fiction also?
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

Kal'Stang said:
Hyperbole ftw! Unlike Trump being an alien, this has far more likelyhood of actually happening. It's not like our government does not have a history of hiding the truth or of trying to blame others for something that they did. Or is that science fiction also?
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Really? It does? How do you judge that? Just because you want something to be true for your hyper-partisan happiness does not make it more likely to be true. When you have two possibilities, and no evidence to support either, they are equally likely.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

Redress said:
Really? It does? How do you judge that? Just because you want something to be true for your hyper-partisan happiness does not make it more likely to be true. When you have two possibilities, and no evidence to support either, they are equally likely.
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I judge it possible based on past history of our government. Do you deny that they have done bad things and tried to cover them up? Do you deny that the CIA has a program designed specifically to leave a "fingerprint" leading back to Russia? Do you deny that our government has condoned purposely gathering private information on its own citizens?

I'm not saying that this DID happen with Trump. But it IS a possibility. Our government has a long history of doing things that they are not supposed to be doing. That you cannot deny.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

haymarket said:
He went to a party outside his committee leaking information that should have stayed within the committee.
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So, is it your position that the President of the United States is not entitled to receive classified information prior to members of Congress? Or is it that the President of the United States is not even entitled to receive the classified information, period?

I appreciate that self-important Congressional blow hards would be apoplectic that they aren't deemed more important than the President - there isn't a politician alive who doesn't think he/she is the most important person on the planet. But, really, you're going to claim that Nunes "leaked" information to the President? And you claim you're serious?
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

FreedomFromAll said:
So I guess this means that you have viewed the evidence against Obama, Right? Or is it really just your opinion based on scant allegations and rumors? BTW if Jack truly beat the neighbors pig with a bat certainly the evidence of that would be necessary to determine his guilt. Where did the assertion come from that says that it was a stabbing or a bat instead of something else? I mean if we are going to be fair and logical and let the evidence show us the way, we ****ing need evidence not what some politician told us. Of course logically circumstantial evidence could give us confidence to make an assumption. For example if Jack doesnt own a bat but has a collection of knives. Or that Jack is baseball player and an exceptional batter. In the end though the fact that jack might of done damning actions doesnt make him actually guilty. Jack could be, being framed.

The same goes with Trump he could be, being framed or Obama could be, being framed. The public certain is lacking enough information to pass permanent judgement. Personally I find it a possibility that Trump has done something very bad and Obama too. If either or both get convicted of something or something along those lines it would surprise me. So I encourage an thorough investigation covering Trump, Obama and whoever else could be guilty of anything. Of course it should be a independent investigation. One that doesnt take dictates from the president.
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Facts are difficult, I know, when you're trying to defend a narrative. I'm not trying to defend anyone. I simply state that Trump is correct in his assertion that he and his transition team had at least some of their communications monitored, whether directly or indirectly - Nunes validated that assertion. Likewise, both the FBI Director and Nunes verified that the FBI was conducting surveillance of Russian elements in connection with the Trump campaign/transition through November, December, and January, all periods during which Obama was President and responsible for the actions of the US government and its various agencies.

You're free to keep dancing on the pinhead of "wiretapping" and Obama authorized it. I think most people are coming to an understanding and appreciation of the gist of the allegations - that being, the Obama administration monitored and leaked classified communications of the Trump transition team and while the monitoring may have been tangentially legal, the leaking was a felony.
 
Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

CanadaJohn said:
So, is it your position that the President of the United States is not entitled to receive classified information prior to members of Congress? Or is it that the President of the United States is not even entitled to receive the classified information, period?

I appreciate that self-important Congressional blow hards would be apoplectic that they aren't deemed more important than the President - there isn't a politician alive who doesn't think he/she is the most important person on the planet. But, really, you're going to claim that Nunes "leaked" information to the President? And you claim you're serious?
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Nunes now admits he did to provide political help to a besieged President. That is NOT his job as chair of that committee.

It is my opinion that the chair of a congressional committee looking into possible criminality in the executive branch DOES NOT run to the White House like a little lap dog to his master with every tiny nugget he thinks he may have found and thereby jeopardizing the very congressional investigation he has been entrusted to head up.

If you want to take steps toward American fascism, one good way to do that is to weaken the checks and balances and reduce one branch to the servant of the other. That is what Nunes did. He took some of the first steps to weakening his own branch and their responsibilities.
 
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Re: Potential 'smoking gun' showing Obama administration spied on Trump team, source

Redress said:
See, if you had read the source instead of making assumptions, you would not make such retarded ****ing mistakes. Here, let me quote for you:



Incidental, meaning it was not intentional.



Some one is "masked" when they are picked up in "wiretaps" of other people.



"Incidental surveillance", and legal. So much for your theory,. Nice try, but next time read the source before saying stupid ****.
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What part about releasing the information on those who were "incidental surveillance" is illegal don't you understand?
 
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