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Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia Coll

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bubbabgone

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Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia Collusion


FROM MSNBC POLITICS shows to town hall meetings across the country, the overarching issue for the Democratic Party’s base since Trump’s victory has been Russia, often suffocating attention for other issues. This fixation has persisted even though it has no chance to sink the Trump presidency unless it is proven that high levels of the Trump campaign actively colluded with the Kremlin to manipulate the outcome of the U.S. election — a claim for which absolutely no evidence has thus far been presented.
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Perhaps most revealing of all are the Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee — charged with investigating these matters — who recently told BuzzFeed how petrified they are of what the Democratic base will do if they do not find evidence of collusion, as they now suspect will likely be the case. “There’s a tangible frustration over what one official called ‘wildly inflated’ expectations surrounding the panel’s fledgling investigation,” BuzzFeed’s Ali Watkins wrote.
Moreover, “several committee sources grudgingly say, it feels as though the investigation will be seen as a sham if the Senate doesn’t find a silver bullet connecting Trump and Russian intelligence operatives.” One member told Watkins: “I don’t think the conclusions are going to meet people’s expectations.”
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https://theintercept.com/2017/03/16...-to-expect-evidence-of-trumprussia-collusion/

I don't want to pile on but this is the realization many here have been trying get across for more than a month.
It has been obvious for quite a while.
The only question remaining is how much worse it will get for the accusers if/when the leaker is discovered and charged.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

I will say that it's smart for Democrats not to put all their eggs into the Russia basket. If there's something there, fine, but Democrats have concrete avenues they can focus on in order to win the House in 2018, specifically policies that cost all working class Americans benefits that Republicans are trying to take away, such as their healthcare, medicaid, medicare, clean air and water, and laws that force financial advisers in charge of their retirements to act in their best interests. There's also the issue of net neutrality, but that has been notoriously difficult to communicate to people for some reason.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we've even remotely scraped the surface of the Russian scandal, but it's not wise to focus on it exclusively when you can communicate to all Americans, regardless of their political orientation, how they are objectively being targeted in the Republicans' broadside attack on non-rich America.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

My feeling from the very beginning of all of this is that this will probably be one of those situations in which there is tons of smoke and perhaps even enough heat to be unbearable, but in the end they won't be able to find the actual fire.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Skeptic Bob said:
My feeling from the very beginning of all of this is that this will probably be one of those situations in which there is tons of smoke and perhaps even enough heat to be unbearable, but in the end they won't be able to find the actual fire.
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That seems like kind of a stretch to me. Check out the video. I don't know what Feinstein and Grassley heard in their meeting with Comey, but it didn't make either of them very happy.



If there's nothing here, then this is the most smoke that has ever come from no fire in the history of civilization.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:
I will say that it's smart for Democrats not to put all their eggs into the Russia basket. If there's something there, fine, but Democrats have concrete avenues they can focus on in order to win the House in 2018, specifically policies that cost all working class Americans benefits that Republicans are trying to take away, such as their healthcare, medicaid, medicare, clean air and water, and laws that force financial advisers in charge of their retirements to act in their best interests. There's also the issue of net neutrality, but that has been notoriously difficult to communicate to people for some reason.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we've even remotely scraped the surface of the Russian scandal, but it's not wise to focus on it exclusively when you can communicate to all Americans, regardless of their political orientation, how they are objectively being targeted in the Republicans' broadside attack on non-rich America.
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Two things, one point and one question:

The point - The Democrats have already put all their eggs in the Russia basket, along with all the chickens as well, (you can't continually, non-stop, with the complete support of the media and ALL of your party's elected officials, accuse a sitting President of HIGH TREASON and not consider it as putting all your eggs in that particular basket) and;

The question - What evidence do you have that could lead you to feel comfortable saying "..., I don't think we've even remotely scraped the surface of the Russian scandal, ..." ?
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Must be disappointing to realize that coming up with an impeachment case against Trump good enough to look real enough to work will take more work.

I still say March 2018, they will figure it out.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Beaudreaux said:
Two things, one point and one question:

The point - The Democrats have already put all their eggs in the Russia basket, along with all the chickens as well, (you can't continually, non-stop, with the complete support of the media and ALL of your party's elected officials, accuse a sitting President of HIGH TREASON and not consider it as putting all your eggs in that particular basket) and;

The question - What evidence do you have that could lead you to feel comfortable saying "..., I don't think we've even remotely scraped the surface of the Russian scandal, ..." ?
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The Democrats have not put all their eggs into the Russia basket, but no doubt many have, and to those people the warning is a sound one.

At this point, if you don't understand why it would even occur to me to say that we haven't scraped the surface of the Russia scandal, then I can only assume you're not reading any news.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Skeptic Bob said:
My feeling from the very beginning of all of this is that this will probably be one of those situations in which there is tons of smoke and perhaps even enough heat to be unbearable, but in the end they won't be able to find the actual fire.
Click to expand...

This is how I feel as well, and I view it the same way when it comes to the Obama wiretapping debacle.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:
That seems like kind of a stretch to me. Check out the video. I don't know what Feinstein and Grassley heard in their meeting with Comey, but it didn't make either of them very happy.



If there's nothing here, then this is the most smoke that has ever come from no fire in the history of civilization.
Click to expand...


I watched that live, and I read their concerns over the fact that there appears to be pretty convincing evidence that Russia was involved, which is enough to be concerned over without conflating Trump as some unindicted conspirator.

As I've said before on here, if there's evidence that Trump ordered or colluded with the Russians and their hacking of the DNC, then let him get charged, indicted, tried in a criminal court, impeached, then tried in the Senate, and then sent to jail. I just don't see the evidence though.

That's why I asked what evidence you, or anyone else for that matter, has that is actual evidence and not innuendo or supposition based on wishful thinking.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Beaudreaux said:
I watched that live, and I read their concerns over the fact that there appears to be pretty convincing evidence that Russia was involved, which is enough to be concerned over without conflating Trump as some unindicted conspirator.

As I've said before on here, if there's evidence that Trump ordered or colluded with the Russians and their hacking of the DNC, then let him get charged, indicted, tried in a criminal court, impeached, then tried in the Senate, and then sent to jail. I just don't see the evidence though.

That's why I asked what evidence you, or anyone else for that matter, has that is actual evidence and not innuendo or supposition based on wishful thinking.
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So far, I haven't seen any hard evidence to show that Russia and the Trump campaign were possibly colluding with one another. Heavy implications, but not any hard evidence (from what I've seen).
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:
The Democrats have not put all their eggs into the Russia basket, but no doubt many have, and to those people the warning is a sound one.

At this point, if you don't understand why it would even occur to me to say that we haven't scraped the surface of the Russia scandal, then I can only assume you're not reading any news.
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I read the news every day. Don't assume that because you are convinced that your feelings equate to actual real evidence. I'm asking for your evidence, not speculation or innuendo from a gleefully complicit news media that is doing everything they can do -- including dissembling, obfuscating, propagandizing, skewing, and yes... lying -- to get rid of Trump.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

TheGoverness said:
This is how I feel as well, and I view it the same way when it comes to the Obama wiretapping debacle.
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What's different in the Wiretap issue is that the president of the United States deliberately lied. Why I would be looking for evidence is to clear him of a possible felony in giving false evidence.

Trump has had so many "moral lapses" Americans are losing sight of what's right and wrong and are not holding Trump accountable as a president but still thinking of him as a reality tv star.

The distinction is very important as it speaks to the integrity of the office of president as trust in the whole system gets eroded. Trump has no clue about his role as a national leader...he's still the rich kid who wants all the attention
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Beaudreaux said:
I watched that live, and I read their concerns over the fact that there appears to be pretty convincing evidence that Russia was involved, which is enough to be concerned over without conflating Trump as some unindicted conspirator.

As I've said before on here, if there's evidence that Trump ordered or colluded with the Russians and their hacking of the DNC, then let him get charged, indicted, tried in a criminal court, impeached, then tried in the Senate, and then sent to jail. I just don't see the evidence though.

That's why I asked what evidence you, or anyone else for that matter, has that is actual evidence and not innuendo or supposition based on wishful thinking.
Click to expand...

If the kind of evidence that would result in an actual impeachment exists and you don't see it, it's because it's classified to hell and back. All the peripheral evidence is the smoke that's been in the news nonstop for the past year. (The fact of Russia interfering in the election through hacking and the manufacture of fake stories, up to six Trump aides communicating with Russia, two doings so and lying about it resulting in one being fired and another recusing himself, one being fired earlier in July, Trump publicly asking Russia to hack Clinton's emails, and another going on multiple interviews only to avoid as much as possible admitting that while he was communicating with Russia he was also an advisor to Trump). The problem is that until the multiple investigations have been concluded (and that's assuming that the finding from those investigations will even be made public), we won't know if that smoke belongs to one big fire or a bunch of little ones.

That's why Democrats shouldn't put all their eggs into the Russia basket. Until they can pair the smoke with the right fire, relying exclusively on the Russia scandal is not smart.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:
I will say that it's smart for Democrats not to put all their eggs into the Russia basket. If there's something there, fine, but Democrats have concrete avenues they can focus on in order to win the House in 2018, specifically policies that cost all working class Americans benefits that Republicans are trying to take away, such as their healthcare, medicaid, medicare, clean air and water, and laws that force financial advisers in charge of their retirements to act in their best interests. There's also the issue of net neutrality, but that has been notoriously difficult to communicate to people for some reason.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we've even remotely scraped the surface of the Russian scandal, but it's not wise to focus on it exclusively when you can communicate to all Americans, regardless of their political orientation, how they are objectively being targeted in the Republicans' broadside attack on non-rich America.
Click to expand...

They did that well over a month ago and along the way it appeared to be dawning on most of them that the tactic wasn't going to survive scrutiny.
The disappointment was palpable.
No, Russian collusion wasn't all the eggs but it would have been the mother hen's biggest egg had it ever hatched but it was infertile from the start and now the yolk's on them (blame yourself for starting the metaphor).

And now they have to be afraid of what comes next.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

bubbabgone said:
They did that well over a month ago and along the way it appeared to be dawning on most of them that the tactic wasn't going to survive scrutiny.
The disappointment was palpable.
No, Russian collusion wasn't all the eggs but it would have been the mother hen's biggest egg had it ever hatched but it was infertile from the start and now the yolk's on them (blame yourself for starting the metaphor).

And now they have to be afraid of what comes next.
Click to expand...

Who's "they?"
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Fearandloathing said:
What's different in the Wiretap issue is that the president of the United States deliberately lied. Why I would be looking for evidence is to clear him of a possible felony in giving false evidence.

Trump has had so many "moral lapses" Americans are losing sight of what's right and wrong and are not holding Trump accountable as a president but still thinking of him as a reality tv star.

The distinction is very important as it speaks to the integrity of the office of president as trust in the whole system gets eroded. Trump has no clue about his role as a national leader...he's still the rich kid who wants all the attention
Click to expand...

You are still making judgements without proof, Trump said he has the proof and will lay it out at the hearing this week, so can't you wait and view the evidence or is evidence just something that gets in your way?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

TheGoverness said:
So far, I haven't seen any hard evidence to show that Russia and the Trump campaign were possibly colluding with one another. Heavy implications, but not any hard evidence (from what I've seen).
Click to expand...

That's basically where I am as well. My concern is, that it has gotten to the point that I can't tell the actual facts from coincidence, fictional visions, or well meaning attempts by the press that they overzealously spin to meet their wanted narrative and outcome. Is there real evidence, or is it that we've heard the same basic unrelated events that are being presented as though they are evidence of fact, and therefore we've convinced ourselves that it's real evidence? In other words, we assume Trump is guilty, because we've told that over and over again, to the point that to think otherwise feels wrong -- aka, argumentum ad populum. As for some others it's simply a case of confirmation bias, which have seen vividly displayed in this very thread.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

bubbabgone said:
The Party.
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"The Party?" How do you know this?
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

MrShangles said:
You are still making judgements without proof, Trump said he has the proof and will lay it out at the hearing this week, so can't you wait and view the evidence or is evidence just something that gets in your way?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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This post has got to be satire.

Beaudreaux said:
That's basically where I am as well. My concern is, that it has gotten to the point that I can't tell the actual facts from coincidence, fictional visions, or well meaning attempts by the press that they overzealously spin to meet their wanted narrative and outcome. Is there real evidence, or is it that we've heard the same basic unrelated events that are being presented as though they are evidence of fact, and therefore we've convinced ourselves that it's real evidence? In other words, we assume Trump is guilty, because we've told that over and over again, to the point that to think otherwise feels wrong -- aka, argumentum ad populum. As for some others it's simply a case of confirmation bias, which have seen vividly displayed in this very thread.
Click to expand...

Holy straw man, Batman.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Beaudreaux said:
That's basically where I am as well. My concern is, that it has gotten to the point that I can't tell the actual facts from coincidence, fictional visions, or well meaning attempts by the press that they overzealously spin to meet their wanted narrative and outcome. Is there real evidence, or is it that we've heard the same basic unrelated events that are being presented as though they are evidence of fact, and therefore we've convinced ourselves that it's real evidence? In other words, we assume Trump is guilty, because we've told that over and over again, to the point that to think otherwise feels wrong -- aka, argumentum ad populum. As for some others it's simply a case of confirmation bias, which have seen vividly displayed in this very thread.
Click to expand...

This is sort of why I've chosen to remain in the middle on this issue.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

MrShangles said:
You are still making judgements without proof, Trump said he has the proof and will lay it out at the hearing this week, so can't you wait and view the evidence or is evidence just something that gets in your way?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Click to expand...



You know what's wrong with that post besides the anger?

"Trump says...."

Donald Trump has told more lies than the last five presidents so far. What he says has absolutely NO value. We will see whether this "evidence" is actually "evidence" a we have seen his justifications are always slim in the believing category.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

TheGoverness said:
This is why I've chosen to remain in the middle.
Click to expand...

Well it's perfectly fair to say "Wow, that sure is a lot of shady crap going on. Maybe we should look into that."
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Fearandloathing said:
What's different in the Wiretap issue is that the president of the United States deliberately lied. Why I would be looking for evidence is to clear him of a possible felony in giving false evidence.

Trump has had so many "moral lapses" Americans are losing sight of what's right and wrong and are not holding Trump accountable as a president but still thinking of him as a reality tv star.

The distinction is very important as it speaks to the integrity of the office of president as trust in the whole system gets eroded. Trump has no clue about his role as a national leader...he's still the rich kid who wants all the attention
Click to expand...

I don't think there is any evidence whatsoever that Trump lied about the wiretapping. What it seems like he did was take an unconfirmed article and comment upon it as if it were fact.
 
Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:
"The Party?" How do you know this?
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Because the only crime uncovered so far was the disclosure of name(s) from a wiretap(s).
In other words, the leaker of both the classified information and the name of an innocent party.
Would you be anxious to know who did that if you were a Party honcho?
 
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