Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia Coll

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:

Okayyyyyyy. So how do I not see that statement and not get "Leaks have happened, therefore if there was something there, it would have been leaked"?

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I have no idea at this point. Whatever you have to tell yourself.

Cardinal said:

Maybe I just recognize that multiple highly classified investigations are still ongoing. As for "keeping speculation alive," would it make you happy if, next time a Trump aide or cabinet member is found to have lied under oath regarding his association with Russia, I were to ignore it?

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How you react is however you choose. What I would prefer is that when a federal official lies under oath, that they be held liable for their breach of duty and breach of trust, and they be sent to jail, regardless of who they happen to be.

But, since the legal precedence was set by President Bill Clinton and his Democratic buddies in the Senate when they refused to hold him responsible for lying under oath, it would appear that my preferences don't matter.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Beaudreaux said:

I have no idea at this point. Whatever you have to tell yourself.

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Since you're unable to explain how the two statements aren't the same, I'll accept that they're the same.

Beaudreaux said:

How you react is however you choose. What I would prefer is that when a federal official lies under oath, that they be held liable for their breach of duty and breach of trust, and they be sent to jail, regardless of who they happen to be.

But, since the legal precedence was set by President Bill Clinton and his Democratic buddies in the Senate when they refused to hold him responsible for lying under oath, it would appear that my preferences don't matter.

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You are all over the map in this thread. I don't think you even know what your position is anymore.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

This whole Trump / Russian collusion was a media invented red herring from the git go, which the Democrats picked up and ran with, just because it put Trump in a bad light.

Now given the tendency of the biased liberal media of producing their 'fake news', why is it a surprise to anyone that there's no evidence? It was a made up meme from the git go anyway.

Those that believed this Trump / Russian collusion were just being played by the biased liberal media and their fevered imaginations.

While I know that it's hard for some to accept they've been played like that, there will probably be some who continue with this pointless stupidity anyway.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

eohrnberger said:

This whole Trump / Russian collusion was a media invented red herring from the git go, which the Democrats picked up and ran with, just because it put Trump in a bad light.

Now given the tendency of the biased liberal media of producing their 'fake news', why is it a surprise to anyone that there's no evidence? It was a made up meme from the git go anyway.

Those that believed this Trump / Russian collusion were just being played by the biased liberal media and their fevered imaginations.

While I know that it's hard for some to accept they've been played like that, there will probably be some who continue with this pointless stupidity anyway.

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If Trump's aides' and secretaries' associations with Russia are perfectly kosher then maybe they should stop lying under oath about it. Just a friendly suggestion.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

I see this as nothing more than a cowardly attempt to avoid Trumpian-levels of absurdity (and to distance themselves from the Centre-Right Clinton wing of the Democrats).

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:

If Trump's aides' and secretaries' associations with Russia are perfectly kosher then maybe they should stop lying under oath about it. Just a friendly suggestion.

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That sounds like quite a claim. I'm sure you've got some sort of substantiation for it that you are more than willing to share.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

eohrnberger said:

That sounds like quite a claim. I'm sure you've got some sort of substantiation for it that you are more than willing to share.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...e1e16a-f3d5-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/...onal-security-adviser-michael-flynn.html?_r=0

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...8c07ac-ff46-11e6-8ebe-6e0dbe4f2bca_story.html

Alright, you knew these already because they were only two of the biggest media ****storms of 2017. So what's your game?

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...e1e16a-f3d5-11e6-8d72-263470bf0401_story.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/13/...onal-security-adviser-michael-flynn.html?_r=0

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Flynn's job was to talk to his counter parts in foreign countries. What wasn't kosher was telling Pence one thing which he repeated on nation media, and then have it turn out inaccurate (never make your boss look bad or had bad information), as well as being a registered agent (lobbyist) for the nation of Turkey, given Trump's policy of no foreign nation's lobbyists in his administration.

Still, where is there your claim, your accusation, of 'lying under oath' ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powe...8c07ac-ff46-11e6-8ebe-6e0dbe4f2bca_story.html

Alright, you knew these already because they were only two of the biggest media ****storms of 2017. So what's your game?

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Sessions recusing himself from any Trump / Russian investigation isn't lying under oath, now, is it?

Can you, or can you not, substantiate your claim? Your accusation?

The word 'oath', as in 'lying under oath' doesn't even appear in any of the articles you've cited.

Had any lying under oath occurred, surely it would have been mentioned in the text of your citations. But yet, it's not.

So what's you game?

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

eohrnberger said:

Flynn's job was to talk to his counter parts in foreign countries. What wasn't kosher was telling Pence one thing which he repeated on nation media, and then have it turn out inaccurate (never make your boss look bad or had bad information), as well as being a registered agent (lobbyist) for the nation of Turkey, given Trump's policy of no foreign nation's lobbyists in his administration.

Still, where is there your claim, your accusation, of 'lying under oath' ?



Sessions recusing himself from any Trump / Russian investigation isn't lying under oath, now, is it?

Can you, or can you not, substantiate your claim? Your accusation?

The word 'oath', as in 'lying under oath' doesn't even appear in any of the articles you've cited.

Had any lying under oath occurred, surely it would have been mentioned in the text of your citations. But yet, it's not.

So what's you game?

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You asked where they lied and I showed you. I'm not getting into a debate on what the meaning of "is" is. So as I said, if Trump's aides' associations with are kosher, they need to stop lying about those associations. If you want to know why there is so much suspicion surrounding the Trump camp, the constant lying is a good place to start.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:

The Democrats have not put all their eggs into the Russia basket, but no doubt many have, and to those people the warning is a sound one.

At this point, if you don't understand why it would even occur to me to say that we haven't scraped the surface of the Russia scandal, then I can only assume you're not reading any news.

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Your a funny guy! News????? Why do you think the left is beginning to back away from the russian? Because of more and more compelling news every day???

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Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:

You asked where they lied and I showed you. I'm not getting into a debate on what the meaning of "is" is. So as I said, if Trump's aides' associations with are kosher, they need to stop lying about those associations. If you want to know why there is so much suspicion surrounding the Trump camp, the constant lying is a good place to start.

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There's a significant difference between 'lying under oath', which you accused and what was done here.

So which oath was in effect at the time?

Further, a single instance with was dealt with by resignation / dismissal, where is this broad brushed into

Cardinal said:

. . .Trump's aides' and secretaries' associations

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being applicable to all?

Even further, how do you justify smearing Sessions, when he has Sessions been anything but honorable?

My advice is that you should stay way from fake news which makes baseless and fact less accusations.

In this particular post of yours, you've proven barely 1/3 (or less) of what you've (and / or the fake news) have claimed.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Partsguy57 said:

Your a funny guy! News????? Why do you think the left is beginning to back away from the russian? Because of more and more compelling news every day???

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk

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They're not backing away from "the russian," only acknowledging that until the totality of the investigations are concluded then it doesn't make sense to focus exclusively on "the russia" regardless of how strong the circumstantial evidence is. Since you put five question marks after "news" I can only assume you believe that Sessions didn't recuse himself and Flynn is still National Security adviser.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

eohrnberger said:

There's a significant difference between 'lying under oath', which you accused and what was done here.

So which oath was in effect at the time?

Further, a single instance with was dealt with by resignation / dismissal, where is this broad brushed into being applicable to all?

Even further, how do you justify smearing Sessions, when he has Sessions been anything but honorable?

My advice is that you should stay way from fake news which makes baseless and fact less accusations.

In this particular post of yours, you've proven barely 1/3 (or less) of what you've (and / or the fake news) have claimed.

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You asked where they lied and I showed you. Debate what the meaning of "is" is with somebody else.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:

They're not backing away from "the russian," only acknowledging that until the totality of the investigations are concluded then it doesn't make sense to focus exclusively on Russia regardless of how strong the circumstantial evidence is. Since you put five question marks after "news" I can only assume you believe that Sessions didn't recuse himself and Flynn is still National Security adviser.

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Hmm there not backing away, but at the same time saying that there probably is no story????? What do you call that?? Nice spin!! Good job talking out your backside, you do the hinged left proud.. cheers

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Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

countryboy said:

Sure, if one is gullible enough to believe each and every hyperventilating mischaracterization put out by the MSM. Which evidently, you are. Can't say I'm surprised. :shrug:

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Missed on that one country boy...I don't even own a TV and haven't watched nor listened to an American news show in at least 20 years. As usual, you mistake personal insults for reasoned debate...but I have to ask, are you really saying Donald Trump is NOT a liar?

Interesting because in the rest of the world that's the first thing people say about him, "dishonest, untrustworthy, liar, fabricator...."

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:

You asked where they lied and I showed you. Debate what the meaning of "is" is with somebody else.

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I'm not arguing "what the meaning of "is" is" I'm only asking under which oath your accusation of lying occurred.

Can't prove under which oath was in effect, there's no point to hold the position that there was lying under oath, don't you think?

Further, a single instance is a rather small sample set on which to base a position and apply it to a larger group of people, sort of guilty by association, don't you think?

I think your position of

Cardinal said:

. . . Trump's aides' and secretaries' associations with Russia are perfectly kosher then maybe they should stop lying under oath about it.

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Has been thoroughly invalidate and proven false.

There is no "what the meaning of "is" is" here in the least.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

eohrnberger said:

I'm not arguing "what the meaning of "is" is" I'm only asking under which oath your accusation of lying occurred.

Can't prove under which oath was in effect, there's no point to hold the position that there was lying under oath, don't you think?

Further, a single instance is a rather small sample set on which to base a position and apply it to a larger group of people, sort of guilty by association, don't you think?

I think your position of

Has been thoroughly invalidate and proven false.

There is no "what the meaning of "is" is" here in the least.

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Okay, Flynn is still National Security Advisor and Sessions didn't recuse himself. Good job, John Connor, you've single-handedly altered the course of history.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:

Okay, Flynn is still National Security Advisor and Sessions didn't recuse himself. Good job, John Connor, you've single-handedly altered the course of history.

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Nice straw man. Not at all my point. Care to try again?

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

bubbabgone said:

Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia Collusion





https://theintercept.com/2017/03/16...-to-expect-evidence-of-trumprussia-collusion/

I don't want to pile on but this is the realization many here have been trying get across for more than a month.
It has been obvious for quite a while.
The only question remaining is how much worse it will get for the accusers if/when the leaker is discovered and charged.

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LOL...

Is this their way of saying they made it all up?

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Beaudreaux said:

I watched that live, and I read their concerns over the fact that there appears to be pretty convincing evidence that Russia was involved, which is enough to be concerned over without conflating Trump as some unindicted conspirator.

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LOL...

"Appears" to be evidence?

So all these allegations, with no evidence...

That's what confirmation bias will do. Expose the ignorance of smart people.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Lord of Planar said:

LOL...

"Appears" to be evidence?

So all these allegations, with no evidence...

That's what confirmation bias will do. Expose the ignorance of smart people.

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Are all the investigations over and nobody told me?

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Fearandloathing said:

What's different in the Wiretap issue is that the president of the United States deliberately lied. Why I would be looking for evidence is to clear him of a possible felony in giving false evidence.

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Again, it is not rational to accuse Trump of lying about being wiretapped. Whether it occurred or not, he would not likely have tweeted it, if he did not believe it took place. And even if he had lied by way of Twitter, it certainly would not have been a felony. Posting on twitter is not something done under oath in a court of law, or under oath during congressional questioning. And it is quite possible that he was wire tapped. If you know how the FISA court system works in the US, Obama would not have needed to give a direct order to have it done. Have you ever heard the term "Plausible deniability? And even the wiretapping that is legally approved by the FISA courts is dependant on trusting those CIA or NSA operatives who listen in on conversations. Someone has been leaking Trump administration phone conversations. And when Obama was confronted by the media over it, he was a stuttering mess in his denial.

Trump has had so many "moral lapses

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"

Okay....Name at least one?

Americans are losing sight of what's right and wrong and are not holding Trump accountable as a president but still thinking of him as a reality tv star.

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What specifically has he done that we should be holding him accountable for? Be specific.

The distinction is very important as it speaks to the integrity of the office of president as trust in the whole system gets eroded. Trump has no clue about his role as a national leader...he's still the rich kid who wants all the attention.

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Bill Clinton ented office in 1992 already embroiled in multiple scandals in Arkansas where he was governor for 5 terms and state attorney general for at leas tone. He had multiple scandals while in office including an illicit sexual affair with a female intern just a couple of years older then his own daughter. He was impeached over perjury and obstruction of justice over another sexual affair. Obama used the IRS against his political enemies and in his second term started writing executive orders that illegally bypassed the legislative branch of government. What exactly has Trump doe that even closely approaches anything Obama or Clinton have done? And btw, all politicians in the US who run for president these days are rich and seeking attention. If you want to criticize Trump, do try to keep it real. He is a political novice, however in todays political climate in the US, that is a positive. You dislike him for ideological reasons. criticize him over what you actually disagree with him on. Attempting to turn him into the candidate from hell is not working.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Fearandloathing said:

Missed on that one country boy...I don't even own a TV and haven't watched nor listened to an American news show in at least 20 years. As usual, you mistake personal insults for reasoned debate...but I have to ask, are you really saying Donald Trump is NOT a liar?

Interesting because in the rest of the world that's the first thing people say about him, "dishonest, untrustworthy, liar, fabricator...."

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No...just liberals and biased liberal press in the rest of the world. not that we give a damn what the rest of the world thinks about our US politicians.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

Cardinal said:

So again, how do you know it's "The Party" that is "full throttle" behind the collusion idea? Quantify and qualify that claim.

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Don't you have a TV?
You're asking me to produce video clips of every Party member that paraded themselves before a camera to accuse Trump of colluding with the Russians?
Sorry.
But a web search for something on the order of Congress + Russia + collusion will give you lots of hits.
You can even add the name of your own Congressperson to see what they had to say if you're really interested.
Could be interesting.
Enjoy.

Re: Key Democratic Officials Now Warning Base Not to Expect Evidence of Trump/Russia

bubbabgone said:

Don't you have a TV?
You're asking me to produce video clips of every Party member that paraded themselves before a camera to accuse Trump of colluding with the Russians?
Sorry.
But a web search for something on the order of Congress + Russia + collusion will give you lots of hits.
You can even add the name of your own Congressperson to see what they had to say if you're really interested.
Could be interesting.
Enjoy.

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I'm asking you to in some way quantify your claim that "The Party" has put their eggs into the Russia basket. Was it a statement from the chairman of the DNC? Did Chuck Schumer say something to give you that impression? Did you hear it in a dream? C'mon, give me something.