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Thread: White privilege

  1. #571
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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Well.. I guess you are a liberal then?

    You might want to change your lean.. because you have been presented with the facts.. numerous studies.. that show white folks have an advantage over minorities.. from call backs to treatment from law enforcement..

    And though we have heard all sorts of promises from you claiming you can refute these studies with some "facts"... all we have so far is opinion from you.

    So if according to you.. ducking facts is a liberal thing.. its time you changed your lean.
    Yeah, you are hanging your hat on that study like you really have something. As you can see, most conservative types just don't put that much stock in it.
    Even if it's accurate, its not that big a deal in my mind. I'd overcome the hurdles, I know that because I have overcome harder things than that.
    Then of course there is the liberal bias in those studies. You know that, but you probably won't admit it's a factor. But there are those of us that know it is.

    So I appreciate your concern, but I am in little danger of becoming a liberal Progressive type.
    Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Who said it was appropriate to assume racism based on the number of people in a job or college or profession or whatever?

    I mean whats your argument? that you think its wrong to assume racism simply because a profession.. is dominated by white males.... but that its okay to state its racism that the NBA is made of mostly of African americans.
    That was exactly my point - to assume one means we should assume both. My view is that we should assume neither. We should not have quotas or "upward mobility" programs in one if not the other.

  3. #573
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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    Well.. I don't know why you would object to the term privilege if you accept "1.


    I mean if all other things being equal.. and you have an advantage because of your skin color (white). This would meet the definition of privilege.

    a
    Tell me, does an impoverished white or an impoverished black have a better chance of getting into an ivy league school? Which has the better job advantage, quotas considered?
    Seems to me that poor blacks have the advantage here.
    I had a white friend in high school, married to an hispanic. She was telling me when they saw her last name she was easily pushed through in the AFDC welfare process.
    So I guess your Progressive minority advantage rules are working. ....for the minorities.... Poor whites are given unfair hurdles to overcome because of their skin color.
    Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

  4. #574
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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by Cable View Post
    Tell me, does an impoverished white or an impoverished black have a better chance of getting into an ivy league school? Which has the better job advantage, quotas considered?
    Seems to me that poor blacks have the advantage here.
    I had a white friend in high school, married to an hispanic. She was telling me when they saw her last name she was easily pushed through in the AFDC welfare process.
    So I guess your Progressive minority advantage rules are working. ....for the minorities.... Poor whites are given unfair hurdles to overcome because of their skin color.
    That's interesting. I would agree that a poor white person is actually harmed by the perception of "white privilege."

  5. #575
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    Re: White privilege

    Quote Originally Posted by Cable
    Ben really just shreds White Privilege here. This is done in pretty good detail, taking down Social Justice as well. Really, showing socialism is not a solution.
    Individual responsibility is the real solution, not appointing folks based on their skin color. .. But none of the SJWs on this thread will directly address his points.
    I'll address them. It's a little difficult to do since there's no transcript, so it requires stopping, rewinding, and listening a few times to make sure I get exactly what he's saying. Verbal debates are often misleading for a number of reasons, since they require the first "off the cuff" response that comes to mind. It's also often difficult to tell whether someone has more behind an argument--that is, whether the step from premises to conclusion is entirely stated, or whether they're relying on background knowledge or assumptions they think are safe.

    With these and other limitations in mind, I watched the video and have a few responses.

    1. Shapiro said something to the effect that he acknowledged unconscious bias, but then said that unconscious bias does not affect behavior, or at least that there are no studies that measure its effects in behavior. Nonsense--those studies I posted in this thread do show a pattern of behavior against black people--and Shapiro himself said that such behavior is what matters. Well, I've served up a mere smattering of what is out there and it was a pretty large number of links for a board like this. Unconscious bias is the plausible mechanism of causation of the behavior documented in those studies; indeed, it's the most plausible explanation.

    2. In the same line of questioning, Shapiro first claimed (correctly) that not all our thoughts manifest in our behavior, and then went on to point out that unconscious bias isn't even a thought in his sense, since it's unconscious. OK--if that second conjunct is true (and it is), then his point about thoughts not manifesting in behavior is irrelevant. Second (aside from the fact that racism is manifest in behavior), that there are thoughts that do not manifest in behavior is insufficient to show that unconscious bias doesn't manifest in behavior, since some thoughts do manifest in behavior. So his logic isn't logic at all--he basically adduced some red herrings.

    3. He goes on to address social justice, noting that social justice is an attempt at redistribution of outcomes (by which he seems to mean wealth). I agree, but I'm not sure why that's an argument against it, unless you think that all outcomes were achieved fairly. It's the point of a social justice proponent that those outcomes were not achieved fairly, so his argument here begs the question--by assuming what he sets out to prove, he's actually done nothing more than assert his position without any evidence.

    4. From there, he goes on to suggest that the real solution to social ills is to allow more personal freedom. For instance, parents should have more choice about where to send their kids to school. I wonder what those wealthy suburban High Schools will think when suddenly all the inner-city kids start attending there (presumably at least doubling attendance unexpectedly).

    But that's only an illustration--the real point is that he does literally nothing to support his proposal. He says it, and then moves on.

    5. I actually agree with some of his points about different cultures. There are some cultures that are evil, and many that are partly evil.

    6. Shapiro claims that businesses that discriminate will go out of business. Pretty sure that's not true--we've already done that experiment in the first half of the 20th century. There were plenty of businesses in the south that did discriminate, and they thrived. Now, I suppose he could say that we're living in a different world now or something, but at least legally, the only difference is that there are laws against businesses discriminating. If we repeal those laws, we'll be back in the world where businesses can thrive whether or not they discriminate.

    7. Hmmm...I guess by the definition of leftism at the end of the video, I'm not on the left. But then, by that same view, social justice proponents also are not on the left, since social justice proponents think the real problem is inequality of opportunity.

    In all, the "logic" in Shapiro's points is pretty horrible. He's an engaging speaker, and he strikes the right tone to seem authoritative and reasonable, but his content is vacuous and misleading, to say the least. Someone who already agrees with him will, of course, come away with their relevant beliefs and values affirmed. Someone who is unable to think clearly (which is a larger and larger portion of Americans as time goes on) may find themselves convinced. Someone who is adept at using logic and reasonably familiar with the issues involved will view this Q&A session as a travesty and a mockery of reasonable discourse.

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