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White privilege

Most people are poor because of their own poor choices! Period!! I am a very successful small businessman that came from nothing and I can attest to this as nearly all my friends are the same as me and we talk about it quite often. A very wealthy friend said it best to me. You can take every dollar from the rich and give it to the poor and in six months I will be on my way to being rich again and they will be on their way to being poor . Creating wealth is all about wise choices ( and other factors) coupled with talent and some have far more talent in this area then others. ( yes making money is a talent) I laugh at some here that sit on their butts here complaining about their situation . If you you have time to sit on your butt here and are unhappy about ones financial situation, you are a example of using your time poorly i.e. poor choice. We all get the same 24 hours a day, some use it far more wisely then others....

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We don't all get the same:

Now a "field experiment" by NBER Faculty Research Fellows Marianne Bertrand and Sendhil Mullainathan measures this discrimination in a novel way. In response to help-wanted ads in Chicago and Boston newspapers, they sent resumes with either African-American- or white-sounding names and then measured the number of callbacks each resume received for interviews. Thus, they experimentally manipulated perception of race via the name on the resume. Half of the applicants were assigned African-American names that are "remarkably common" in the black population, the other half white sounding names, such as Emily Walsh or Greg Baker.

To see how the credentials of job applicants affect discrimination, the authors varied the quality of the resumes they used in response to a given ad. Higher quality applicants were given a little more labor market experience on average and fewer holes in their employment history. They were also portrayed as more likely to have an email address, to have completed some certification degree, to possess foreign language skills, or to have been awarded some honors.

In total, the authors responded to more than 1,300 employment ads in the sales, administrative support, clerical, and customer services job categories, sending out nearly 5,000 resumes. The ads covered a large spectrum of job quality, from cashier work at retail establishments and clerical work in a mailroom to office and sales management positions.

The results indicate large racial differences in callback rates to a phone line with a voice mailbox attached and a message recorded by someone of the appropriate race and gender. Job applicants with white names needed to send about 10 resumes to get one callback; those with African-American names needed to send around 15 resumes to get one callback. This would suggest either employer prejudice or employer perception that race signals lower productivity.

The 50 percent gap in callback rates is statistically very significant, Bertrand and Mullainathan note in Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? A Field Experiment on Labor Market Discrimination (NBER Working Paper No. 9873). It indicates that a white name yields as many more callbacks as an additional eight years of experience. Race, the authors add, also affects the reward to having a better resume. Whites with higher quality resumes received 30 percent more callbacks than whites with lower quality resumes. But the positive impact of a better resume for those with Africa-American names was much smaller.
 
Poverty made and leaving poverty are two separate issues. Combining the two and using poverty as the excuse for not excelling will leave you in poverty.

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My solution to poverty is organizing against it (e.g. movements like Fight for $15) rather than following self-help tips. Individual solutions do not solve systemic problems. Collective solutions do.
 
No the problem is you look at it as a color issue and fail to see its a poor " choice" issue.

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no.. I know the research. Its not a poor choice issue. I have a mixed marriage and interracial children. they deal with racism from the school, from their peers, and the community on almost daily basis... there experience is not because of "poor choices".
 
I and the wife have more than all 5 of my siblings combined....difference was that we saw a way out, made a plan, and stuck to it. Equality, fair play, level playing ground, etc. would be nice but don't hold your breath while waiting for those things to be made available. I saw what the Navy did to minorities, steered them to jobs that held little future, but that changed quite a bit between 1964 and 1977. Being white helped me, but not some of my siblings, so it isn't always enough if you don't have a certain level of intellect to help you get through some education and training.
It doesn't happen overnight, took us about 45 years to get the first million bucks, then we started spending it....so there won't be a second million.
LSS, if you can get help getting there, good for you. If not, it will just take a little longer.
 
"white Privilege" is nothing more than a mass liberal gaslighting of whites. See you are to feel bad for things you never did, had no control of, and you have to accept that you are somehow "privileged" at the hands of minorities. Identity politics, guilt politics, a bunch of ****e.
 
So you want to paint me black then? What is the fix?

Well.. part of the fix is actually recognizing that it happens. You can't counter racist attitudes particularly when they are so ingrained in a culture that the bias isn't even perceived.

Most white people simply don't understand it. I certainly didn't until I had interracial children. My children deal with racism on an almost daily basis in school. Now.. if every single time a kid called them a name, or a teacher made a racist remark, or my child was passed over for something despite being top in his class..and having exemplary behavior.. I might as well camp out at the school and spend all day with him. but that's just not possible.

Now.. when something happens that so egregious, like when a child threatened to shoot the "blank" with an arrow IN ARCHERY CLASS. I had to step into the school. And when I point out the things that are going on.. whats the response "Oh no.. not in OUR school".


You can see the same when other minorities point to well documented abuse from police officers. Rather than acknowledge that yes it happens.. and its an issue.. when its VERY well documented... a sizable portion of our white population rushes to say "oh no.. not in our America".

You can't solve a problem if you are busy denying such a problem exists in the first place.
 
I'm well aware there is generational poverty in every community and every race. But you can't sit there with a straight face and pretend that the problem is equally bad for all communities. Do you think that all races in America at this moment have the exact same level of opportunity? Does the average black person have to work exactly as hard as the average white person to reach the same level of wealth and opportunity?
...and you can't sit there with a straight face and ignore the fact that these studies are ignoring the two biggest factors (culture and neighborhood) and instead are focused on proving that black vs. white is the only difference. This is goal based research, instead of truth based research. You can tell because the only thing being compared is race. If this was an honest attempt at figuring out why some people are successful and some aren't you would see numerous other factors being presented. But we don't. All we see is race. If race is the core issue, then natural conclusion is that blacks are lazy (which is dead wrong). If you look at all the factors, then you start seeing cultural influences which vastly over-ride the whole "white privilege/black oppression" factors. This kind of crap research is racism with a thin veneer of acceptability. The fact is that culture has far more to do with poverty than race, but addressing that means that you have to challenge people to change, instead of just providing them with someone to blame.
 
no.. I know the research. Its not a poor choice issue. I have a mixed marriage and interracial children. they deal with racism from the school, from their peers, and the community on almost daily basis... there experience is not because of "poor choices".
Sad. You think you are the only ones dealing with crap??? If so you know nothing about how things work... its all about choices and you are at fault here for leaving your kids in that environment.. I sent my kids to private school ( it was a great financial burden at the time) I suggest you vote with your feet and move... and yes it can be done it just depends on what choices and sacrifices you are willing to make.

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Is this one of the most mainstream racist ideas out there?
This is saying I am somehow different because of my skin color.

I am a white male and I can tell you with 100% certainty that white male privilege abso****inglutely exists. Unfortunately there are a lot of white people...particularly men who are so ****ing stupid that even when given a massive head start in life they still can't win the race. If you're a white male in the United States of America and you fail to achieve at least a middle class or upper middle class lifestyle you have to be ****ing worthless turd. I mean I'll grant you there are some people who run into some bad luck, but if you even put forth the bare minimum of effort you should be golden. **** a Truck driver in the United States can make $50,000/year no problem. Have you been to a mechanic lately? What they charge is astronomical. Go to tech school for **** sake.
 
My solution to poverty is organizing against it (e.g. movements like Fight for $15) rather than following self-help tips. Individual solutions do not solve systemic problems. Collective solutions do.
Never work!!! This only fix is personal responsibility. I.e. wise choices. Stealing from one group to give to another never works as it does not fix the underlining problem...

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The problem with this study is it can't take into account the effect of the current state of Black incarceration and other similar factors on someone's per-judgement vs. just the applicant being black.

Kind of like how you're failing to take into account the effect of being black on growing up in poverty, being surrounded by crime, and therefore turning to it yourself given that you have no other roll models.
 
Sad. You think you are the only ones dealing with crap??? If so you know nothing about how things work... its all about choices and you are at fault here for leaving your kids in that environment.. I sent my kids to private school ( it was a great financial burden at the time) I suggest you vote with your feet and move... and yes it can be done it just depends on what choices and sacrifices you are willing to make.

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No.. they are plenty of other minorities that deal with much more crap. My children have the benefit of having a rich dad. Its not all about choices.. and your insistence that it is shows your bias.

We tried private school. the situation was no different. So spare me "its about choices".

I didn't have that issue in school BECAUSE I AM WHITE. My children have that issue because they are not. that's not a choice.. that's racial bias at work.
 
My solution to poverty is organizing against it (e.g. movements like Fight for $15) rather than following self-help tips. Individual solutions do not solve systemic problems. Collective solutions do.
Good luck with that.
No government can solve systemic problems without the cooperation of those who the system is designed to serve.
Who will stay in school if the "dole" pays too much. Laziness is contagious, I see it within my own family, from my parents to most of my siblings, they settled for a minimum existence.
 
Cable said:
This still doesn't point to a solution, and it doesn't point to a need to demonize whites for being white.

There clearly are some people who demonize white people just for being white. Many of those are themselves victims of racism, and you might want to consider what your views would be on the matter if you endured regular discrimination, day-in, day-out. That said, I would agree that demonizing someone merely for the color of their skin is racist, and wrong by the same token that racism against black people is wrong.

Of course, we can begin to find solutions, but you thread seems to be about the problem, not the solution.
 
I am a white male and I can tell you with 100% certainty that white male privilege abso****inglutely exists. Unfortunately there are a lot of white people...particularly men who are so ****ing stupid that even when given a massive head start in life they still can't win the race. If you're a white male in the United States of America and you fail to achieve at least a middle class or upper middle class lifestyle you have to be ****ing worthless turd. I mean I'll grant you there are some people who run into some bad luck, but if you even put forth the bare minimum of effort you should be golden. **** a Truck driver in the United States can make $50,000/year no problem. Have you been to a mechanic lately? What they charge is astronomical. Go to tech school for **** sake.
No white privilege, just poor choice as you write about in the post. Any person can do those things not just white...

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Well.. part of the fix is actually recognizing that it happens. You can't counter racist attitudes particularly when they are so ingrained in a culture that the bias isn't even perceived.

Most white people simply don't understand it. I certainly didn't until I had interracial children. My children deal with racism on an almost daily basis in school. Now.. if every single time a kid called them a name, or a teacher made a racist remark, or my child was passed over for something despite being top in his class..and having exemplary behavior.. I might as well camp out at the school and spend all day with him. but that's just not possible.

Now.. when something happens that so egregious, like when a child threatened to shoot the "blank" with an arrow IN ARCHERY CLASS. I had to step into the school. And when I point out the things that are going on.. whats the response "Oh no.. not in OUR school".


You can see the same when other minorities point to well documented abuse from police officers. Rather than acknowledge that yes it happens.. and its an issue.. when its VERY well documented... a sizable portion of our white population rushes to say "oh no.. not in our America".

You can't solve a problem if you are busy denying such a problem exists in the first place.

You assume I don't pay attention to what is going on with this issue, I have been paying attention for a long time about it. In my early 20's I read Dr Kings writings and I understood them.
What I don't understand is creating such a thing as "White Privilege" Why do we need this? What is the function of this thought?
I can't stand it when some black guest on some talk show says "You white, you just don't know..." BS. There were plenty of whites marching with Dr King. They knew and I know what is going on.

Liberals coin these phrases not to rectify any wrongs. The purpose is to garner the black vote, to create a victim voting block that they can pander to, with ever helping them.
 
There clearly are some people who demonize white people just for being white. Many of those are themselves victims of racism, and you might want to consider what your views would be on the matter if you endured regular discrimination, day-in, day-out. That said, I would agree that demonizing someone merely for the color of their skin is racist, and wrong by the same token that racism against black people is wrong.

Of course, we can begin to find solutions, but you thread seems to be about the problem, not the solution.

The 'solution' is the problem when it encourages the problem.
 
No.. they are plenty of other minorities that deal with much more crap. My children have the benefit of having a rich dad. Its not all about choices.. and your insistence that it is shows your bias.

We tried private school. the situation was no different. So spare me "its about choices".

I didn't have that issue in school BECAUSE I AM WHITE. My children have that issue because they are not. that's not a choice.. that's racial bias at work.
Still your choice, you say you are rich, how about home school then, private tutor, etc it's nearly always about choice and you have not used up all your choices. ( my kids went to school in southern Oregon and at their private school zero problems with racial issues zero!! ( many minorities in the school maybe the minorities placed there by their parents because of this issue or maybe not) again choice, your choice.
Good luck with that.
No government can solve systemic problems without the cooperation of those who the system is designed to serve.
Who will stay in school if the "dole" pays too much. Laziness is contagious, I see it within my own family, from my parents to most of my siblings, they settled for a minimum existence.


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The problem with this study is it can't take into account the effect of the current state of Black incarceration and other similar factors on someone's per-judgement vs. just the applicant being black.

Something to think about

Actually further studies using resumes have found that a white sounding name with a criminal background is more likely to get a callback than a black sounding name without one. It took something like 2 extra years of education on the black sounding resume to equal the call back rate of a white sounding name with a criminal background.

Other studies have found the same thing.

Devah Pager conducted a matched-pair experiment in which she had male testers apply for the same entry-level jobs advertised in Milwaukee newspapers. She gave the assistants fake credentials that make them equivalent in terms of education, job experience, and so on. Half were Black and half White.

What was surprising was that race actually turned out to be more significant than a criminal background. Notice that employers were more likely to call Whites with a criminal record (17% were offered an interview) than Blacks without a criminal record (14%). And while having a criminal background hurt all applicants’ chances of getting an interview, African Americans with a non-violent offense faced particularly dismal employment prospects
 
Still your choice, you say you are rich, how about home school then, private tutor, etc it's nearly always about choice and you have not used up all your choices. ( my kids went to school in southern Oregon and at their private school zero problems with racial issues zero!! ( many minorities in the school maybe the minorities placed there by their parents because of this issue or maybe not) again choice, your choice.



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Sir.. you are now just being absurd.

next you will tell me I should move my children overseas. cuz that's "a choice"

Wait.. maybe I can divorce my wife and leave my kids and ignore the issue completely because "cuz that's a choice".

And I would highly bet if there were minorities at your private school there were not zero problems. I bet you just don't know about it.. and if someone tried to even tell you about it.. you told them they were wrong.

Just as my kids school thinks there are no problems.
 
...and you can't sit there with a straight face and ignore the fact that these studies are ignoring the two biggest factors (culture and neighborhood) and instead are focused on proving that black vs. white is the only difference. This is goal based research, instead of truth based research. You can tell because the only thing being compared is race. If this was an honest attempt at figuring out why some people are successful and some aren't you would see numerous other factors being presented. But we don't. All we see is race. If race is the core issue, then natural conclusion is that blacks are lazy (which is dead wrong). If you look at all the factors, then you start seeing cultural influences which vastly over-ride the whole "white privilege/black oppression" factors. This kind of crap research is racism with a thin veneer of acceptability. The fact is that culture has far more to do with poverty than race, but addressing that means that you have to challenge people to change, instead of just providing them with someone to blame.

The research would "imply" that blacks were "just lazy" if we held the false notion that if you're born black you have the exact same amount of opportunity in life as whites, and that's simply not the case. There are generational education and wealth effects that still exist. The US didn't magically become equal in 1865.

The median black family in America has 1/16th the wealth of the median white family. Since we both agree it's not because they're lazy, perhaps you can open your eyes to other factors. You seem to be implying it's all just a numbers based trick. So what if we go by neighborhood? What does that change? The median black neighborhood is still dramatically poorer and less funded than the median white neighborhood. I don't see how recognizing this fact is some huge assault on you.

Those walls are statistically lower as an average; the highest walls for whites are just as high as the highest walls for blacks. In most instances, they are the same walls. Statistically speaking, though, you are more likely to be born into those difficult environments if you are black as a percentage of the black population.

Poor blacks and poor whites face the same obstacles, until you start to "unpack the knapsack", which is psychological and not explainable with hard data.

It's as I said. Speaking of individuals, of course whites can be just as poor as blacks, but blacks as a whole in America have 1/16th the wealth and unlike "partsguy" here it's not because they're lazy or subhuman. There are socioeconomic and historical factors and pretending everyone has exactly the same level of opportunity has no connection to reality.

Bull crap!! Do you think blacks were the only ones dealing with slavery and other huge issues??? Go look at the people who have fled from other parts of the world to start a new life here and as groups have done very well....

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Wealth is not passed down from generation to generation in most cases. Total lie!! Go read the book the millionaire next door you may learn something. The black population is not poor because of lack of opportunity, it's mostly because of one's own poor choices and that includes all races in this country.

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So the median wealth of blacks is 1/16th that of whites because they're 1/16th as hardworking and 1/16th as smart? Jesus you're something special aren't you.
 
No white privilege, just poor choice as you write about in the post. Any person can do those things not just white...

Are you sure? Who's going to hire a black truck driver? Who's going to take their car to a black mechanic? Who's going to hire a black mechanic out of tech school and show him the ropes? Where is a black guy going to learn about cars in the first place given that his poor urban family doesn't own one? Most of the people he knows that can afford a car are drug dealers. Most urban poor people don't have a drivers license at all let alone a CDL.
 
Is this one of the most mainstream racist ideas out there?
This is saying I am somehow different because of my skin color. Really? Liberals, will you wake up please?
This is indeed racist extremism at it's worst. We have enough BS going to that divides us as a country.

While the concept of white privilege is indeed racist, to say that this is racist extremism at it's worse is horribly hyperbolic. We had chattel slavery in the U.S. We had blacks who were not able to vote later than that. We had segregation enforced by law even later than that. Laws against mixed race marriages. Lynchings.

Yes, it's racist but don't make comparisons like this.
 
Actually further studies using resumes have found that a white sounding name with a criminal background is more likely to get a callback than a black sounding name without one. It took something like 2 extra years of education on the black sounding resume to equal the call back rate of a white sounding name with a criminal background.

Other studies have found the same thing.

At higher level jobs, it certainly helps to be attractive. IIRC it was 60 Minutes that did a segment on that. People with less than stellar resume's got the job if they fit the corporate mold.
 
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