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White privilege

jaeger19 said:
Nice little rant there.

Of course none of it applies to me there bud. But whatever makes you feel better about having your position blown out of the water.

By the way.. we don't have a truly free market. We have a regulated market and that's why someone who starts poor like me.. can become a 1% er. Because without things like patent protection. or courts to enforce contracts, or prohibitions on unfair competition.. those already wealthy.. would stamp out opportunity for everyone else. With a regulated market.. my abilities matter more than who my parents were.

But you can wallow in your delusions.
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My point was there is opportunity here and most poor are poor because their own poor choices (self evident) you wanting to take this down another Avenue shows the weakness of your case..... keep bending over and licking that government boot.....many poor unfortunately are not much more then animals ( sad they don't even know it) they rely on the hand of government (just like your pet dog) for their substance and shame on you for pushing this idea. You are as bad as the original slave owners by promising the lie that only " help" government help and elimination of " white privilege" is their only hope for climbing the ladder of success. I can promise you things will never change for the poor until they look to themselves to make the change for a better life relying on themselves..... and you and the left supporting this idea. That's not what you want, you want the poor looking for " help" and a permanent poor class to keep the " helpers" in power.

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk
 
jaeger19 said:
Oh no.. I understand there are such studies.. JUST AS THERE ARE STUDIES THAT SHOW THAT HAVING A BLACK SOUNDING NAME DISADVANTAGES YOU.

Hey.. maybe we should look at that drop out thing:
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I wonder what the single parent instance is for that study...
 
jaeger19 said:
Oh no.. I understand there are such studies.. JUST AS THERE ARE STUDIES THAT SHOW THAT HAVING A BLACK SOUNDING NAME DISADVANTAGES YOU.

Hey.. maybe we should look at that drop out thing:
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So you don't really want to understand the problem in any meaningful way. What solution are you suggesting to all of this mess?
 
ajn678 said:
You have no arguments other than "Paris Hilton is rich, therefore, white privilege".
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Yeah.. that's complete denial on your part.

Lets see.. I posted information that.. black sounding names garner less job callbacks

That the GI bill was purposely denied to black veterans compared to white veterans

That black students are more likely to get suspended than white students

That a criminal charge is more likely to affect the employment chances of a black person than a white person with the same charge.

Yep.. sure.. all I have is paris Hilton.. :roll:
 
Cable said:
So you don't really want to understand the problem in any meaningful way. What solution are you suggesting to all of this mess?
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Wow.. you are really out there.

YOU have repeatedly denied there is a problem at all. While I and others have provided data on racial bias in employment and getting jobs, you mentioned dropping out and I provided data that indicates there is racial bias in the schools regarding suspensions. . And then you make the outlandish claim that I don't want to understand the problem in any meaningful way?

Sir.. we haven't even gotten you to acknowledge that there is a racial bias.. even though presented with loads of data and facts.

You can't even get to a meaningful solution if you can't even recognize there is a problem.
 
jaeger19 said:
Yeah.. that's complete denial on your part.

1. Lets see.. I posted information that.. black sounding names garner less job callbacks

2.That the GI bill was purposely denied to black veterans compared to white veterans

3.That black students are more likely to get suspended than white students

4.That a criminal charge is more likely to affect the employment chances of a black person than a white person with the same charge.

Yep.. sure.. all I have is paris Hilton.. :roll:
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1. A poorly done study that has no merits.

2. My point about the GI bill was that there are similar plans these days simply for being black or poor that act like the GI bill without even having to serve in the military.

3. Don't commit suspension worthy actions.

4. Don't commit crimes.

So yea, you have no legitimate arguments.
 
Cable said:
I wonder what the single parent instance is for that study...
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Hmmm is it your contention then that school officials are more likely to suspend someone because they are from a single parent home..

While someone committing the same offense but has two parents is more likely to be given lighter punishment?
 
jaeger19 said:
That the GI bill was purposely denied to black veterans compared to white veterans
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When was this?

That black students are more likely to get suspended than white students
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I sit on the school board of directors in my district and, as far as this area is comcerned, that is not only false. But it is a lie. Not only are black students who are brought up on diciplinary charges less likely to be suspended or expelled. But they are more likely to have their transgressions ignored by school personnel.

That a criminal charge is more likely to affect the employment chances of a black person than a white person with the same charge.
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There are litterally thousands of companies that offer Felon forgivness.
 
jaeger19 said:
Wow.. you are really out there.

YOU have repeatedly denied there is a problem at all. While I and others have provided data on racial bias in employment and getting jobs, you mentioned dropping out and I provided data that indicates there is racial bias in the schools regarding suspensions. . And then you make the outlandish claim that I don't want to understand the problem in any meaningful way?

Sir.. we haven't even gotten you to acknowledge that there is a racial bias.. even though presented with loads of data and facts.

You can't even get to a meaningful solution if you can't even recognize there is a problem.
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I think if you can go back and maybe read my posts you will see I acknowledged the items your team put out there. My comment was so what. That there is little one can do to fix someone who is a racist.
But that there are things that one can control in ones life, mainly staying in school, learning something of value to an employer, being employable. These are indeed valid solutions.

I don't know what the solution to being white is, while admittedly I don't see it as a problem. Maybe you can shed some light in that department?
 
jaeger19 said:
Hmmm is it your contention then that school officials are more likely to suspend someone because they are from a single parent home..

While someone committing the same offense but has two parents is more likely to be given lighter punishment?
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I realize you may not be able to reason at this level, but no, what I am saying is that a kid from a fatherless home is likely to be less disciplined and will get into more trouble. There are many studies in that department. Do you give any credence to that scientific data?
 
ajn678 said:
1. A poorly done study that has no merits.

2. My point about the GI bill was that there are similar plans these days simply for being black or poor that act like the GI bill without even having to serve in the military.

3. Don't commit suspension worthy actions.

4. Don't commit crimes.

So yea, you have no legitimate arguments.
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1. An AWESOME study with a very large N and excellent blinding. A peer reviewed study by the way. but you are free to bring your vast knowledge to bear to refute that study. Which showed an advantage to being white

2. You made it a great point that your grandfather got into the GI bill "not because he was white but because he served".. and I provided a link showing that black servicemen did not have the same opportunity that your grandfather had. AND in addition.. you made it a point that your current success is in part due to your grandfather. In other words.. there is an advantage to being white

3. Black students are more likely to get suspended than white students for the same offense. In other words... being white is an advantage

4. A criminal charge is more likely to affect a black person than a white person with the same charge. In other words being white was an advantage...

Yeah.. I have more than enough legitimate arguments..

YOU sir.. have no legitimate arguments.
 
Cable said:
I realize you may not be able to reason at this level, but no, what I am saying is that a kid from a fatherless home is likely to be less disciplined and will get into more trouble. There are many studies in that department. Do you give any credence to that scientific data?
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Doesn;t matter.. at the end of the day.. the issue isn;t the kid or fatherless home.. its not the behavior. The study shows that if a white kid breaks school rules.. and a black kid does the same thing.. the black kid is more likely to be suspended though the offenses are the same.

Fatherless. motherless, or raised by the dog.. isn't valid to that point that there is an advantage to being white in that situation.
 
jaeger19 said:
1. An AWESOME study with a very large N and excellent blinding. A peer reviewed study by the way. but you are free to bring your vast knowledge to bear to refute that study. Which showed an advantage to being white

2. You made it a great point that your grandfather got into the GI bill "not because he was white but because he served".. and I provided a link showing that black servicemen did not have the same opportunity that your grandfather had. AND in addition.. you made it a point that your current success is in part due to your grandfather. In other words.. there is an advantage to being white

3. Black students are more likely to get suspended than white students for the same offense. In other words... being white is an advantage

4. A criminal charge is more likely to affect a black person than a white person with the same charge. In other words being white was an advantage...

Yeah.. I have more than enough legitimate arguments..

YOU sir.. have no legitimate arguments.
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1. Entirely wrong. You must not have even read the final paragraph of the study itself.

2. Entirely wrong again. My point was that he didn't get the GI bill cause he was white. Which is true because that's not why he got it. Again, there are currently educational opportunities of similar levels for strictly being a minority and being poor.

3. You have literally no statistics for this other than biased studies that go in looking for data that confirms their belief system. Also, did I mention, don't commit acts that can get you suspended?

4. Another wildly inaccurate claim based on studies that don't take into account much more than skin color. Also did I mention, don't commit crimes if you don't want to get a criminal record?

Try again.
 
Cable said:
I think if you can go back and maybe read my posts you will see I acknowledged the items your team put out there. My comment was so what. That there is little one can do to fix someone who is a racist.
But that there are things that one can control in ones life, mainly staying in school, learning something of value to an employer, being employable. These are indeed valid solutions.

I don't know what the solution to being white is, while admittedly I don't see it as a problem. Maybe you can shed some light in that department?
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Actually there is a lot you can do to fix the effects of someone who is racist. But it starts with realizing that racism is happening.

Staying in school.. does not change the fact that if you have a black sounding name.. you are not as likely to get a job as someone who sounds white..

Learning something of value for an employer does not change the fact that you don't even get a chance to show that employer what you can do.. if he hires a white guy over you because he likes the white sounding name.

So no.. those are not valid solutions to the problem.

One of the solutions is recognizing that there is an issue with racial bias.. and that bias helps white people over minorities.
 
jaeger19 said:
Doesn;t matter.. at the end of the day.. the issue isn;t the kid or fatherless home.. its not the behavior. The study shows that if a white kid breaks school rules.. and a black kid does the same thing.. the black kid is more likely to be suspended though the offenses are the same.

Fatherless. motherless, or raised by the dog.. isn't valid to that point that there is an advantage to being white in that situation.
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Right, so what is your advice to those poor black kids?
 
jaeger19 said:
Doesn;t matter.. at the end of the day.. the issue isn;t the kid or fatherless home.. its not the behavior. The study shows that if a white kid breaks school rules.. and a black kid does the same thing.. the black kid is more likely to be suspended though the offenses are the same.

Fatherless. motherless, or raised by the dog.. isn't valid to that point that there is an advantage to being white in that situation.
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You do realize that a larger percentage of black kids go to schools in bad areas than white kids. The same schools that are more likely to suspend kids in the first place? School superintendents aren't out trying to expel black kids, they are trying to control the already crumbling schools that many of them attend.
 
Cable said:
Right, so what is your advice to those poor black kids?
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He doesn't have any advice, he just wants to pull white people down to an "even" playing field.
 
ajn678 said:
1. Entirely wrong. You must not have even read the final paragraph of the study itself.

2. Entirely wrong again. My point was that he didn't get the GI bill cause he was white. Which is true because that's not why he got it. Again, there are currently educational opportunities of similar levels for strictly being a minority and being poor.

3. You have literally no statistics for this other than biased studies that go in looking for data that confirms their belief system. Also, did I mention, don't commit acts that can get you suspended?

4. Another wildly inaccurate claim based on studies that don't take into account much more than skin color. Also did I mention, don't commit crimes if you don't want to get a criminal record?

Try again.
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Entirely correct. You don't realize that part of being a good study and being peer reviewed is to purposely point out any flaws in the study.. which in this case are extremely minor.

2. Entirely correct... YOU claimed he didn;t get the GI bill because he was white... but you failed to realize that BEING WHITE made him more likely to receive the GI bill than a black serviceman. In other words.. he had an advantage of being white. If your grandfather had been black he would have been less likely to receive the GI bill despite serving.. and thus your circumstances would likely be worse.

3. I actually have statistics that show this while you have what? Oh wait.. your opinion. So Bring it.. show me any peer reviewed studies that refute the data I showed.

4. And again.. another good study that showed that being white gave you and advantage over being black. AND the study was a good study because it controlled for other factors.. which means that skin color was the variable that mattered.

In 3.4 the issue isn't about the offense.. but the fact that if you are white.. the offense you commit is less likely to result in a negative consequence than if you are black. So again.. white privilege.

Sir.. you have lost this debate entirely.

Lets see.. whats your debate style? Oh yeah.. you provide your opinion.. I provide facts and studies.
 
jaeger19 said:
Actually there is a lot you can do to fix the effects of someone who is racist. But it starts with realizing that racism is happening.
Staying in school.. does not change the fact that if you have a black sounding name.. you are not as likely to get a job as someone who sounds white..
Learning something of value for an employer does not change the fact that you don't even get a chance to show that employer what you can do.. if he hires a white guy over you because he likes the white sounding name.
So no.. those are not valid solutions to the problem.
One of the solutions is recognizing that there is an issue with racial bias.. and that bias helps white people over minorities.
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Dude, I don't know where you have been, but this country has been acknowledging and dealing with racism for well over 100 years. That is a fact you can stick in your list.
LOL, so you are admitting the only solution is to try and educate whitey? These kids have another 100 years to wait around to get a job?

Good grief. I work in the corporate world. I can't begin to tell you all the unfairness, cronyism and other crap that goes on there.
If you can't figure out a way to beat that then better figure out how to be your own boss. The world is just chock full of challenges for everyone.
If white kids could graduate high school and then retire to the beach with a bag of money I'd feel something for your point.
But they have horrendous challenges too. And the ones that get good jobs and make it work are full of determination, drive, skill, and knowledge. That is what it takes.

I work with some blacks very closely. They are good at what they do, and they are treated like anyone else at work, with respect.
You sound more like you just want to whine that things are hard. Again I say, So What....
 
ajn678 said:
He doesn't have any advice, he just wants to pull white people down to an "even" playing field.
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Wait.. if the playing field is already level.. as you guys claim it is.. how can I pull white people DOWN..

Too funny. You make winning this debate so so easy.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Proof of that statement please. I've stated from the beginning all races should be treated equal, but that we should recognize that not all races have the same amount of opportunity and wealth. Every time I even suggest we admit that I just hear high pitched shrieking. Run along if you're going to project your opinions onto me.



"Suckling off the government tit" is exactly something you would say, as you don't think government should exist at all. No point in arguing with someone like that.
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RabidAlpaca said:
You're missing the point. This isn't a micro thing, it's a macro thing. Any given white person could easily be far poorer or have less social mobility than any given black person. However, after 200+ years of whites as a whole absorbing wealth and repressing blacks as a whole, the per capita wealth of blacks is dramatically less than it is for whites.

This isn't any individual's fault, just a historic reality. Wealth is passed down along the generations and blacks have had less wealth to pass down. Regardless of your race, having dirt poor or uneducated parents will echo down through multiple generations. Couple that with the fact that schools in black neighborhoods are statistically underfunded compared to white neighborhoods, there absolutely is an effect. When you take everything into account blacks as a whole have less wealth and opportunity than whites as a whole.



By the way that you would actually say something this ridiculously stupid shows you've never opened a history book in your life. This, what you're experiencing as a white person right now, is the worst and most extreme case of racism mankind has ever seen?
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There ya go. Proof.
 
jaeger19 said:
Entirely correct. You don't realize that part of being a good study and being peer reviewed is to purposely point out any flaws in the study.. which in this case are extremely minor.

2. Entirely correct... YOU claimed he didn;t get the GI bill because he was white... but you failed to realize that BEING WHITE made him more likely to receive the GI bill than a black serviceman. In other words.. he had an advantage of being white. If your grandfather had been black he would have been less likely to receive the GI bill despite serving.. and thus your circumstances would likely be worse.

3. I actually have statistics that show this while you have what? Oh wait.. your opinion. So Bring it.. show me any peer reviewed studies that refute the data I showed.

4. And again.. another good study that showed that being white gave you and advantage over being black. AND the study was a good study because it controlled for other factors.. which means that skin color was the variable that mattered.

In 3.4 the issue isn't about the offense.. but the fact that if you are white.. the offense you commit is less likely to result in a negative consequence than if you are black. So again.. white privilege.

Sir.. you have lost this debate entirely.

Lets see.. whats your debate style? Oh yeah.. you provide your opinion.. I provide facts and studies.
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1. Your peer review study is garbage. It isn't relevant for reasons I have already described to the person that initially submitted it.

2. So was it impossible to get the GI bill if one was black? No it wasn't. Therefore, it wasn't because he was white. You are bad at logic.

3. You don't have anything, you haven't linked anything, I have actually done the research on this. Of the available data, they can't prove anything other than black kids get suspended more than white kids. That is all they have. The FBI posts the same data about murders.

4. You have no information, you haven't linked anything, and again I have done great research on this. The data actually suggests that black people are sentenced "harsher" due to the fact that they often have public defenders, often refuse to plea, and have longer rap sheets.

Again, try to fail even 1% less. I doubt you can.
 
Cable said:
Dude, I don't know where you have been, but this country has been acknowledging and dealing with racism for well over 100 years. That is a fact you can stick in your list.
LOL, so you are admitting the only solution is to try and educate whitey? These kids have another 100 years to wait around to get a job?

....
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Again.. you can't fix a problem when folks don't recognize the problem exists.

Now whats your argument.. well.. so what if the system is worse for minorities than white kids.. white kids still have challenges too?

THATS your argument. Its okay that its HARDER for minorities as long as white kids struggle SOME? :roll:

Right.. and pointing out facts now is "whining". Sad.. just sad.
 
jaeger19 said:
Wait.. if the playing field is already level.. as you guys claim it is.. how can I pull white people DOWN..

Too funny. You make winning this debate so so easy.
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The problem with debate vs. discussion is that debate tends to inflate the ego while focusing on one's own set of facts and ignoring the other sides facts. It does not produce any valuable results. It just inflates the ego, as we can see.
Try thinking about discussion then. This is what actually brings about solutions. This is what will bring the country together. This is what will help those black kids you care so much about.
 
jaeger19 said:
Wait.. if the playing field is already level.. as you guys claim it is.. how can I pull white people DOWN..

Too funny. You make winning this debate so so easy.
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I was stating your objective. I wasn't agreeing with it.
 
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