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Republicans continue pushing their voting scams

Gaugingcatenate said:
No.


While I am sure we both speak English, am having a spot of difficulty with your minimalist posts; besides I didn't get my liberal decoder ring yet... is it every third letter I am supposed to read... or am I supposed to add letters or something?
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Thinking for yourself would at least be a start.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
It will be a major problem for you and your fellow sheep. You obviously want a one-party country like North Korea. (But hey, they have a fantastic voter turnout rate!)
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Why does he want a one party system? He didn't say that. A one party system would be disastrous as we know. A no party system would be a lot better.
 
fmw said:
Why does he want a one party system? He didn't say that. A one party system would be disastrous as we know. A no party system would be a lot better.
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Most conservatives would be perfectly happy to have a one-party system, as long as it's "their" party.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
All in the name of a problem that's too rare even to matter.



More
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I’m always suspicious of anyone claiming there is no voter fraud, because they are usually the ones who oppose voter ID. And why would anyone oppose making sure only eligible people vote. And why does it seem only Democrats oppose it. I think the answer is obvious, but I’ll leave that determination to others.
As to the question; is there voter fraud? Remember, this is a very difficult crime to expose. There is no smoking gun, no witnesses, and no immediate victim to file a complaint. So, in fact, it is difficult to properly analyze the extent of voter fraud, either to say there is a lot or to say “it’s too rare to matter”. And this is exactly why we should have a federal voter ID law. It could be made easy to invoke and made available for free for everyone, just like the rest of the democracies around the world do. And for those that say there is no voter fraud… looky what happened this week in Texas and this is not that rare. Because this crime is very hard to detect, it would stand to reason that for every case you uncover there are plenty more that are not. Any guesses as to which party Rosa Maria voted for?

"A Mexican citizen living in Texas was sentenced this week to eight years in prison for voting illegally in elections in 2012 and 2014.
Rosa Maria Ortega, 37, was found guilty Wednesday on two counts of illegal voting after she falsely claimed to be a United States citizen and voted at least five times between 2012 and 2014. A jury sentenced her Thursday to eight years in prison and a $5,000 fine."
 
Cvir said:
I’m always suspicious of anyone claiming there is no voter fraud, because they are usually the ones who oppose voter ID. And why would anyone oppose making sure only eligible people vote. And why does it seem only Democrats oppose it. I think the answer is obvious, but I’ll leave that determination to others.
As to the question; is there voter fraud? Remember, this is a very difficult crime to expose. There is no smoking gun, no witnesses, and no immediate victim to file a complaint. So, in fact, it is difficult to properly analyze the extent of voter fraud, either to say there is a lot or to say “it’s too rare to matter”. And this is exactly why we should have a federal voter ID law. It could be made easy to invoke and made available for free for everyone, just like the rest of the democracies around the world do. And for those that say there is no voter fraud… looky what happened this week in Texas and this is not that rare. Because this crime is very hard to detect, it would stand to reason that for every case you uncover there are plenty more that are not. Any guesses as to which party Rosa Maria voted for?

"A Mexican citizen living in Texas was sentenced this week to eight years in prison for voting illegally in elections in 2012 and 2014.
Rosa Maria Ortega, 37, was found guilty Wednesday on two counts of illegal voting after she falsely claimed to be a United States citizen and voted at least five times between 2012 and 2014. A jury sentenced her Thursday to eight years in prison and a $5,000 fine."
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As you just demonstrated, there are (and there should be) stiff penalties for voter fraud. Couple that with basically zero payoff if you succeed, and you're left with a crime that very few people would have any incentive to commit.

That's why voter fraud is rare. No, I did not say it doesn't exist. I said it's rare. If you're going to claim otherwise, you'll need some actual proof besides a single case.

By the way, I don't even mind having some kind of mandatory ID, as long as it doesn't cost the voter anything out of pocket (which would be a poll tax, and therefore unconstitutional).
 
DifferentDrummr said:
As you just demonstrated, there are (and there should be) stiff penalties for voter fraud. Couple that with basically zero payoff if you succeed, and you're left with a crime that very few people would have any incentive to commit.

That's why voter fraud is rare. No, I did not say it doesn't exist. I said it's rare. If you're going to claim otherwise, you'll need some actual proof besides a single case.

By the way, I don't even mind having some kind of mandatory ID, as long as it doesn't cost the voter anything out of pocket (which would be a poll tax, and therefore unconstitutional).
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You're right, just one case isn't enough. Here's two more. I'll keep sending these to you two at a time till you say stop, OK?

From October 2014:
Chairman Butch Morgan Jr. from St Joseph County was convicted of felony conspiracy to commit petition fraud and forgery. Dustin Blyth, who served on the Board of Elections, was charged with felony forgery and several counts of making a false petition. Both men were charged and convicted for submitting fake names and signatures on petitions that were designed to get Obama and Hillary Clinton onto the 2008 primary ballots.

From May 2015:
A Hull man has pleaded guilty to the felony crimes of fraudulently altering voter registration cards during the 2012 election in Madison County.
Mohammad Shafiq, 45, of Hidden Falls Drive entered pleas on May 5 to two counts of voter identification fraud and three counts of tampering with evidence in Madison County Superior Court, according to Northern Circuit District Attorney Parks White.
The judge sentenced Shafiq to 10 years on probation and imposed a $6,750 fine.
 
voter ID is fine, even though it's a solution in search of a problem. i have a significant disagreement with policies that lead to fewer polling places, long lines, and restrictions on early voting, though. that is the equivalent of a poll tax.
 
gaugingcatenate said:
get over it already.

The american people have voted in republicans. Overwhelmingly. At the national, state and local levels. Republicans that believe in the basic and rational fact that anybody voting should have a valid personal identification to show at the polls if they want to vote. Simple. They, we, do not like the idea of potential fraud in voting, we do not agree that it is just too much of a burden for anyone to get proper identification [ besides which, it is hard to live in america, if you are legal or not, without a valid id], and...

If it affects one side more than the other, that side should get up off their backsides and help those of their own if they feel so deeply about it.

It is certainly not our problem to solve your problems.
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um gerry mandering much
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
When a person votes I believe their name and address will be recorded. It would be a fairly simple but time consuming cross check to see who has voted multiple times. The main problem would be if the voted using different addresses
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believe it or not there is a federal agency that is supposed to do that the National Election Board and if I read right they stated that there were only a few hundred cases of voter fraud nationally. Not 10 zillion

In Wisconsin it is customary for someone to come to the polls present their drivers license IF they have one and then their names are crossed of a computer printout. If they have no ID they are asked their address (which they cannot see on the printout). If they don't know or screw up they are turned away. We have been doing it this way since Kennedy.
The only voter fraud in Wisconsin were Republicans trying to vote twice.
 
jimbo said:
People are voting who shouldn't. That's a fact. People are voting more than once. That's a fact. There are requirements in the US to vote. That's a fact.

Where is the scam?
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I think you have it backwards. People who should vote aren't whether due to voter restrictions or apathy.
 
YorkshirePete said:
Too much to ask for examples? If I were an illegal a polling booth is the last place I'd be. Ah well, the average Muslim here makes more money and is better educated than out high school white supremacists. They should be grateful for them, increasing the average IQ of the country
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I have no idea how it works in other states but at our polling places there is usually some kind of law enforcement on the premises be it a volunteer cop or a real one. BY the way I think those people who work at these polls are "patriots" not the ass holes in Washington (both sides)
 
Helix said:
voter ID is fine, even though it's a solution in search of a problem. i have a significant disagreement with policies that lead to fewer polling places, long lines, and restrictions on early voting, though. that is the equivalent of a poll tax.
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Did you ever wonder why nearly every other democracy in the world have voter ID laws? You think they all had a solution searching for a problem? I don't think so. Did you ever wonder why it seems to be only Democrats that oppose voter ID? Nearly every voter fraud case that I have uncovered was committed by Democrats. Think about it.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
As you just demonstrated, there are (and there should be) stiff penalties for voter fraud. Couple that with basically zero payoff if you succeed, and you're left with a crime that very few people would have any incentive to commit.

That's why voter fraud is rare. No, I did not say it doesn't exist. I said it's rare. If you're going to claim otherwise, you'll need some actual proof besides a single case.

By the way, I don't even mind having some kind of mandatory ID, as long as it doesn't cost the voter anything out of pocket (which would be a poll tax, and therefore unconstitutional).
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Two more..

Hazel Woodard, a Democratic precinct chairwoman candidate in Fort Worth, Texas, was concerned that her husband would not make it to the polls to vote for her.
So, she simply had her teenage son vote in his place in an election in 2011 before the state’s new voter ID law was in place.
The impersonation at the poll went unnoticed until the husband showed up at the same polling place later that day and tried to cast a second ballot in his name.
Hazel recently pleaded guilty to impersonation fraud at the polls, and was sentenced to two years of deferred adjudication probation.

During the November 2014 election for county judge-executive, Larry Perkins of Magoffin County, Kentucky, saw fellow resident Simon Marshall with a crisp, new $50 bill.
When Perkins asked Marshall—who had limited intellectual ability—where the money came from, Marshall replied, “It is Election Day.”
A judge threw out the results of the election, which was decided by only 28 votes, citing evidence that “people sold their votes” as well as numerous other violations of election rules, including a lack of required information on applications for absentee ballots, precinct officers failing to document how they identified voters and improperly helping people vote, and residents casting early ballots when there was no Republican election commissioner present as required.The judge ruled the election was the result of fraud and bribery.
 
Cvir said:
You're right, just one case isn't enough. Here's two more. I'll keep sending these to you two at a time till you say stop, OK?

From October 2014:
Chairman Butch Morgan Jr. from St Joseph County was convicted of felony conspiracy to commit petition fraud and forgery. Dustin Blyth, who served on the Board of Elections, was charged with felony forgery and several counts of making a false petition. Both men were charged and convicted for submitting fake names and signatures on petitions that were designed to get Obama and Hillary Clinton onto the 2008 primary ballots.

From May 2015:
A Hull man has pleaded guilty to the felony crimes of fraudulently altering voter registration cards during the 2012 election in Madison County.
Mohammad Shafiq, 45, of Hidden Falls Drive entered pleas on May 5 to two counts of voter identification fraud and three counts of tampering with evidence in Madison County Superior Court, according to Northern Circuit District Attorney Parks White.
The judge sentenced Shafiq to 10 years on probation and imposed a $6,750 fine.
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You won't live long enough for it to make a difference, regardless of how young you are. :mrgreen:

How many fraud cases would it take in even one presidential election to actually change the result? Tens of thousands, minimum. As I said, too rare to make a difference (in the outcomes).
 
Cvir said:
Did you ever wonder why nearly every other democracy in the world have voter ID laws? You think they all had a solution searching for a problem? I don't think so. Did you ever wonder why it seems to be only Democrats that oppose voter ID? Nearly every voter fraud case that I have uncovered was committed by Democrats. Think about it.
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thanks. now, perhaps you would like to respond to the rest of my post. you fully support expanding early voting and making sure that the process is organized well enough to prevent long lines, which are the equivalent of a poll tax for hourly workers, correct?
 
DifferentDrummr said:
You won't live long enough for it to make a difference, regardless of how young you are. :mrgreen:

How many fraud cases would it take in even one presidential election to actually change the result? Tens of thousands, minimum. As I said, too rare to make a difference (in the outcomes).
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So now you're implying that there is voter fraud, but if it doesn't swing an election, why worry? Have you forgotten about the Florida hanging chad episode? Have you considered smaller precincts for judges or assemblyman where a handful of votes can make the difference in an election? Have you forgotten about the Michigan recount investigation last month that revealed more people voted than had registered? There have been cases where officials refused to bring fraud charges because they were leveled at their own party members. There is plenty of voter fraud out there and I think those who traditionally vote Democratic know that it's mostly Democrats involved and so don't see a problem. You have not provided any convincing argument against the need for voter ID laws and I think you've given it your best shot. I won't bore you with more fraud cases.
 
DifferentDrummr said:
Depends on how hard they make it for certain classes of people to obtain acceptable ID.
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Oh, and don't start with the bit that poor people and blacks won't be able to get an ID card. That is malarkey of the first order. How hard would it be to make it free and easy to get an ID? Really. Just another Democratic straw man.
 
wolfman24 said:
I think you have it backwards. People who should vote aren't whether due to voter restrictions or apathy.
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Voting is a privilege extended to certain groups. It is not a requirement The major requirement to vote is citizen in good standing. If you are not eligible and vote, you violate and get 8 years. If you are eligible and don't vote, you get 4 years of somebody else's choice. Your choice. Not my problem.
 
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