• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

conservatives can no longer deny they've been lied to about deficits.

Conservative said:
Obama is the first President in modern history not to have one year of 3% GDP growth and when you factor in what the left calls the worst recession since the Great Depression one would have expected with strong economic policies strong growth not the worst recovery on record
Click to expand...

Oh I bet you that, if I look around the internet a bit, I'll find a progressive website that will try and convince us that Barack Obama's record low economic growth was actually an all time record HIGH economic boom! Then they'll tell us how much happier and wealthier we all are because of it! Nevermind the fact that you still probably didn't get your lost house back(and you may be still renting).
 
Conservative said:
Bush like all Presidents is responsible for the debt he had when he left office not just what he inherited and that is the point with Obama. He is taking credit for a reduction in the deficit ignoring that he added that 9 trillion to the debt. The left are truly economic idiots
Click to expand...

I don't think it's due to idiocy. I think that, for the most part, they choose to believe whatever pro-Obama propaganda that they read or hear from the media and progressive websites. It's easier to believe what is most convenient I guess. Although I personally would want to make DAMN SURE that I wasn't being deceived by a bunch of dishonest media activists, even if the truth meant that I had to admit I had been wrong about a lot of stuff.

Ignorance IS NOT blissful.....
 
Conservative said:
Let me help you

GDP by year, Bureau of Economic Analysis

https://www.bea.gov/index.htm

Debt by date-Treasury

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)
Click to expand...

I just used the treasury website to calculate the difference the amount of debt added by Bush, compared to Obama.

I ran the dates 1/20/01-1/20/09 Bush increased our debt by 4.9 trillion.
Then I ran the dates 1/20/09-1/20/17 Obama increased our debt by 9.3 trillion
So, you have a 4.4 trillion dollar difference.

I concede you are right that Obama failed to stimulate the economy in a major way. GDP growth is practically identical. But, as far as the deficits he ran, there's no excuse. But, he made the Bush Tax Cuts permanent. And I'm still not fully convinced that the Tax Cuts have an effect on job creation or that they generate revenue in a significant way. If they did, they would have had plenty of time since 2001 to cause an economic boom.
 
Winston said:
I just used the treasury website to calculate the difference the amount of debt added by Bush, compared to Obama.

I ran the dates 1/20/01-1/20/09 Bush increased our debt by 4.9 trillion.
Then I ran the dates 1/20/09-1/20/17 Obama increased our debt by 9.3 trillion
So, you have a 4.4 trillion dollar difference.

I concede you are right that Obama failed to stimulate the economy in a major way. GDP growth is practically identical. But, as far as the deficits he ran, there's no excuse. But, he made the Bush Tax Cuts permanent. And I'm still not fully convinced that the Tax Cuts have an effect on job creation or that they generate revenue in a significant way. If they did, they would have had plenty of time since 2001 to cause an economic boom.
Click to expand...

tax cuts aren't an expense to the federal govt. and has Obama's policies created the jobs promised and he didn't bail out his supporters with federal taxpayer dollars we would have had more federal revenue. Thanks for finally acknowledging the Treasury data so that is a good first step, now you need to learn basic accounting that people keeping more of what they earn isn't an expense to the federal govt. and people with more spendable income do not need a 4.3 trillion dollar federal budget. Federal Overreach continues to be the problem as the federal government is doing social engineering and that is the role of the state and local governments.
 
Lord of Planar said:
LOL...

All this happened after the democrats took congress in the 2006 elections. The reason is they scared investors and the rich, promising to make them pay more in taxes.
Click to expand...

LoP, when other posters cant follow a simple point, I assume they just misunderstood it. when a person such as yourself who thought gadaffi was a nice guy who fought terrorists misunderstands, I know its on purpose. Paul Ryan's comment proves he and republicans were lying about debt and deficits for 8 years. They were purposely undermining the recovery and sabotaging the economy for their political gain. Americans suffered and suffered longer because of them.
 
Vern said:
LoP, when other posters cant follow a simple point, I assume they just misunderstood it. when a person such as yourself who thought gadaffi was a nice guy who fought terrorists misunderstands, I know its on purpose.
Click to expand...

When someone like you lies, saying I thought Qaddafi was a nice guy...

You have absolutely no credibility, when you resort to such lies.

Please link where I ever said he was a nice guy?

He was the enemy we knew, and better than most dictators. He kept the terrorists at bay in his country. Hillary and Obomba helped the terrorists take control.

Vern said:
Paul Ryan's comment proves he and republicans were lying about debt and deficits for 8 years. They were purposely undermining the recovery and sabotaging the economy for their political gain. Americans suffered and suffered longer because of them.
Click to expand...
I don't see that connection, and nobody has elaborated.

Both parties are scum. That's why an outsider like Trump won.
 
Lord of Planar said:
When someone like you lies, saying I thought Qaddafi was a nice guy...

You have absolutely no credibility, when you resort to such lies.

Please link where I ever said he was a nice guy?

He was the enemy we knew, and better than most dictators. He kept the terrorists at bay in his country. Hillary and Obomba helped the terrorists take control.
Click to expand...

LoP, I'm sorry I said you thought gadaffi was a nice guy. I think when someone shows so much admiration and respect for someone I just assume you think he's a nice guy. So from now on, I'll say " your hero gadaffi". After all you said he had the "integrity to fight his military". I don't know what that means but its clearly admiration and respect. You also said "I don't think he used terrorists". I have to assume that's your continued defense that gadaffi didn't bomb the Pan Am flight. I realize its hard to accept one's hero could do such a heinous act.
I don't see that connection, and nobody has elaborated.

Both parties are scum. That's why an outsider like Trump won.
Click to expand...

I see you're still upset about your hero gadaffi because its been elaborated. For 8 years, republicans said we needed to cut the deficit with spending cuts. They said that even in the peak of the Great Bush Recession when the economy was cratering at -8.2% and losing 600,000 jobs a month. Dems said we needed to get the economy growing and lower the deficit through growth. Republicans had repeatedly show they were flaming lying hypocrites about reducing the deficit the last 8 years so their "concern for the deficit" was nothing but them obstructing things that would have helped the economy. Ryan's quote endorsing Trumps budget busting infrastructure spending is proof even conservatives cant deny that the republican "concern" was only to sabotage the economy and undermine the recovery. Americans suffered and suffered longer because republicans put their political agenda ahead of America.
 
Excuses excuses...
 
Lord of Planar said:
Excuses excuses...
Click to expand...

What a pointless and childish response. But obviously you are still upset about your hero gadaffi. LoP, you asked someone to explain to you the significance of ryan’s comments. Even though it had already been explained throughout this thread, I explained it again special just for you. Since even a professional obfuscator such as yourself is unable to come up with any response you had to go for a childish and pointless one.
 
Vern said:
What a pointless and childish response. But obviously you are still upset about your hero gadaffi. LoP, you asked someone to explain to you the significance of ryan’s comments. Even though it had already been explained throughout this thread, I explained it again special just for you. Since even a professional obfuscator such as yourself is unable to come up with any response you had to go for a childish and pointless one.
Click to expand...

Why are you purposely trying to push my buttons?

I have never indicated any such thing, but you are determined to paint me in bad light, like a lying politician against his opponent.

I'm sure that there are plenty of people here who remember those posts, and see you with a severe lack of integrity, and a liar.

Goo luck with that integrity!
 
Lord of Planar said:
Why are you purposely trying to push my buttons?

I have never indicated any such thing, but you are determined to paint me in bad light, like a lying politician against his opponent.

I'm sure that there are plenty of people here who remember those posts, and see you with a severe lack of integrity, and a liar.

Goo luck with that integrity!
Click to expand...

Look, another pointless rambling incoherent (and of course double spaced) dodge when a conservative gets his head handed to him. Its like you guys use some random word generator when you get exposed. Lets review. You asked someone to elaborate something that had been elaborated throughout the thread. Since you ran out of dishonest dodges, out came the childish and pointless "excuses, excuses" post. Now this. And I see you're still not over your hero gadaffi. tell us again how he had the integrity to fight his own military.

anyhoo, here's a crazy idea LoP, instead of whining and flailing about me, why not respond to the fact that Ryan's comment proves republicans were lying about debt and deficits the last 8 years. Which then proves they were trying to sabotage the economy and undermine the recovery. Your dodges only prove my right.
 
Vern said:
Look, another pointless rambling incoherent (and of course double spaced) dodge when a conservative gets his head handed to him. Its like you guys use some random word generator when you get exposed. Lets review. You asked someone to elaborate something that had been elaborated throughout the thread. Since you ran out of dishonest dodges, out came the childish and pointless "excuses, excuses" post. Now this. And I see you're still not over your hero gadaffi. tell us again how he had the integrity to fight his own military.

anyhoo, here's a crazy idea LoP, instead of whining and flailing about me, why not respond to the fact that Ryan's comment proves republicans were lying about debt and deficits the last 8 years. Which then proves they were trying to sabotage the economy and undermine the recovery. Your dodges only prove my right.
Click to expand...
Really?

What are you high on to have such delusions?
 
Vern said:
Sure, there was indisputable proof that republicans and the conservative media was lying to them about deficits. But like a love struck girl, conservatives continually denied the facts. they always had their debt hero Paul Ryan there to keep the fantasy going. here's what he had to say Tuesday

“One of the things that we’re focusing on is getting people back to work, is economic growth,” Ryan told reporters Tuesday. “You can’t ever balance the budget if you don’t get this economy growing.”

GOP concerns about deficits, debt disappear in Trump era | The Seattle Times

mmmm, what was wrong with that focus when 600,000 people were losing their jobs each month at the peak of the Great Bush Recession? oh yea, the President was a democrat. Just more proof republicans put their political agenda ahead of the American people.
Click to expand...

So, the President's announcement of a 10% cut in spending and a 20% cut in government manpower is just conveniently ignored in order to make you absurd accusation? Figures....
 
jmotivator said:
So, the President's announcement of a 10% cut in spending and a 20% cut in government manpower is just conveniently ignored in order to make you absurd accusation? Figures....
Click to expand...

Yeah, isn't it great that we had a deficit hawk in the WH the last 8 years and I am enthusiastic about the next four years of Democratic control of Congress and President Hillary since elections have consequences and although Obama wasn't on the ballot his policies were with the public responding accordingly in the Congressional elections. What the hell just a billion more here and a billion more there, irrelevant according to liberals but by all means let's attack Trump

Obama's last money shower for the UN: some $9.2 billion | Fox News
 
Once, again, people want to pretend it was one side or the other that triggered the recession, when it was predicted by economists (Michael Hudson, Steve Keen, Fred Foldvary, Mason Gaffney) over a decade before it happened. The problem is not necessarily one party, it is the system.

And public debt isn't anywhere near the economic problem that private debt is.
Government Debt and Deficits Are Not the Problem. Private Debt Is. | Michael Hudson
 
jmotivator said:
So, the President's announcement of a 10% cut in spending and a 20% cut in government manpower is just conveniently ignored in order to make you absurd accusation? Figures....
Click to expand...

Please explain how quoting Paul Ryan, your conservative debt hero, telling you exactly what democrats told you for 8 years and the opposite of what he and every republican said for 8 years is “absurd”? Ryan telling you exactly what we tried to tell you for 8 years only proves republican obstructionism was only about sabotaging the economy and undermining the recovery.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Really?

What are you high on to have such delusions?
Click to expand...

Oh look, another cowardly dodge (and in question format). It’s no shock to me that you came into this thread with zero intention to have an honest and intelligent discussion. I’ll type this slow for you LoP. If what I’m posting is such a delusion you wouldn’t have to deflect.

In the depths of the Great Bush Recession, your conservative masters were telling you debt and deficits would destroy us all. They told you we had to cut spending when the economy was cratering at -8.2% GDP and losing 600,000 jobs a month. Your blind obedience allowed them to obstruct things that would help the economy. Now your conservative debt hero tells you we have to grow the economy to lower the deficit. Yea, that’s what we tried to tell you for 8 years.
 
Vern said:
Oh look, another cowardly dodge (and in question format). It’s no shock to me that you came into this thread with zero intention to have an honest and intelligent discussion. I’ll type this slow for you LoP. If what I’m posting is such a delusion you wouldn’t have to deflect.

In the depths of the Great Bush Recession, your conservative masters were telling you debt and deficits would destroy us all. They told you we had to cut spending when the economy was cratering at -8.2% GDP and losing 600,000 jobs a month. Your blind obedience allowed them to obstruct things that would help the economy. Now your conservative debt hero tells you we have to grow the economy to lower the deficit. Yea, that’s what we tried to tell you for 8 years.
Click to expand...

Not a cowardly dodge at all. I wasn't responding to anything about Ryan.

I WAS RESPONDING TO YOU PATHETIC LIES ABOUT ME!

You need to grow up.
 
Conservative said:
Yeah, isn't it great that we had a deficit hawk in the WH the last 8 years
Click to expand...

another classic Conservative dishonest dodge. We had a president in the WH the last 8 years who understood that cutting spending to balance the budget would only have made things worse. Now that we have a republican in the WH, republicans magically understand it too. Let your debt hero Paul Ryan explain it to you

“One of the things that we’re focusing on is getting people back to work, is economic growth,” Ryan told reporters Tuesday. “You can’t ever balance the budget if you don’t get this economy growing.”

again I ask, what was wrong with that focus when 600,000 people were losing their jobs each month and the economy cratering at -8.2% GDP at the peak of the Great Bush Recession? oh yea, the President was a democrat. Just more proof republicans put their political agenda ahead of the American people.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Not a cowardly dodge at all. I wasn't responding to anything about Ryan.

I WAS RESPONDING TO YOU PATHETIC LIES ABOUT ME!

You need to grow up.
Click to expand...

deflect deflect deflect. I get it LoP, you cant respond to the thread topic even when you asked someone to elaborate it for you. But I have to ask, when you posted this

Lord of Planar said:
Excuses excuses...
Click to expand...

how was that about what you think I posted about you and not about the thread topic that Paul Ryan proved all republicans were flaming lying hypocrites about debt and deficits?. it sure looked like you were flailing about the thread topic.
 
Vern said:
deflect deflect deflect. I get it LoP, you cant respond to the thread topic even when you asked someone to elaborate it for you. But I have to ask, when you posted this
Click to expand...

I simply tired of you lying. You take your opinion of what you think my opinion of Qaddafi as fact. Every time you spew it, you are lying. I am tired of your pathetic lies, that no matter how many times I correct you, you continue.

Why do you make this thread about me?

Have you seen me defend Ryan?

Maybe you should stop your relentless hatred in threads about me.
 
Lord of Planar said:
I simply tired of you lying. You take your opinion of what you think my opinion of Qaddafi as fact. Every time you spew it, you are lying. I am tired of your pathetic lies, that no matter how many times I correct you, you continue.

Why do you make this thread about me?

Have you seen me defend Ryan?

Maybe you should stop your relentless hatred in threads about me.
Click to expand...

more double spaced deflections. You tried to deflect from Ryan's comments by posting "excuses excuses". that didn't work so now you're "feigning umbrage" for reminding you of your respect and admiration of gadaffi. if you don't wish to discuss the fact that Ryan's comment proves that republicans were flaming lying hypocrites on debt and deficits the last 8 years and they used those lies to sabotage the economy and undermine the recovery, why are you in this thread?
 
Vern said:
Please explain how quoting Paul Ryan, your conservative debt hero, telling you exactly what democrats told you for 8 years and the opposite of what he and every republican said for 8 years is “absurd”? Ryan telling you exactly what we tried to tell you for 8 years only proves republican obstructionism was only about sabotaging the economy and undermining the recovery.
Click to expand...

You took the comment out of context, and ignored conservative ideology, to draw the stupid conclusion you arrived at. Since when is conservative ideology not been predicated on growing the economy through low taxes? When was that? The debt crisis is about cutting spending, which they are working on, and growing the economy, which they are working on. The refusal to learn the conservative ideology and translate conservatism statements through their own ideology doesn't produce very informative or intelligent discussion as you, and the Seattle Times, have demonstrated.
 
jmotivator said:
You took the comment out of context, and ignored conservative ideology, to draw the stupid conclusion you arrived at. Since when is conservative ideology not been predicated on growing the economy through low taxes? When was that? The debt crisis is about cutting spending, which they are working on, and growing the economy, which they are working on. The refusal to learn the conservative ideology and translate conservatism statements through their own ideology doesn't produce very informative or intelligent discussion as you, and the Seattle Times, have demonstrated.
Click to expand...

So your new and improved narrative is “out of context”? Well at least that reflects the thread topic better than your hilarious “absurd” narrative. Okay, how is it “out of context”? I have to ask because he’s justifying things that will increase the deficit. When the economy was cratering at -8.2% GDP and losing 600,000 jobs a month he was talking about spending cuts. Unless you can think of something magical to post I’m just going to have to conclude he was pandering to an ignorant base the last 8 years because there was no debt crisis. You believed "debt crisis" just as easily as you believed President Obama was born in Kenya and wanted to kill old people. The difference here is that Ryan just told you what democrats have been telling you the last 8 years which proves he was lying the last 8 years. And that proves the republicans were actually trying to sabotage the economy and undermine the recovery.

So to be clear, your flowery rhetoric about the conservative agenda doesn’t change the facts. It only explains why you obediently flail at the facts. And JM, this thread is not about the Seattle times editorial. I only used it as a link for Ryan’s quote. So your obedient flailing at it was just as pointless as you telling us what you think Trump wants.
 
Vern said:
So your new and improved narrative is “out of context”? Well at least that reflects the thread topic better than your hilarious “absurd” narrative. Okay, how is it “out of context”? I have to ask because he’s justifying things that will increase the deficit. When the economy was cratering at -8.2% GDP and losing 600,000 jobs a month he was talking about spending cuts. Unless you can think of something magical to post I’m just going to have to conclude he was pandering to an ignorant base the last 8 years because there was no debt crisis. You believed "debt crisis" just as easily as you believed President Obama was born in Kenya and wanted to kill old people. The difference here is that Ryan just told you what democrats have been telling you the last 8 years which proves he was lying the last 8 years. And that proves the republicans were actually trying to sabotage the economy and undermine the recovery.

So to be clear, your flowery rhetoric about the conservative agenda doesn’t change the facts. It only explains why you obediently flail at the facts. And JM, this thread is not about the Seattle times editorial. I only used it as a link for Ryan’s quote. So your obedient flailing at it was just as pointless as you telling us what you think Trump wants.
Click to expand...

Vern, I am sure that any day now you will give us an update on President Hillary's first couple weeks in office and the booming stock market that started after her election and the Democrats regaining control of the Congress. Cannot wait
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom