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Thread: If Obamacare is so bad....

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    If Obamacare is so bad....

    Why can’t republicans come up with a better plan? How about a plan? Yea, they’ve had 6 years. We’ve had 3 full years of the exchanges. Certainly there is enough data from that alone to help come up with a plan. it doesn't even have to be a better plan. They can just lie that its better and their base wont hold them accountable. Their base just needs something to repeat over and over. I'm thinking something along the lines of “sure it covers fewer people and costs more but its better because there are no death panels”.

    Certainly even some conservatives have to start to wonder how "repeal and replace" got repealed and replaced with "repeal and delay"?
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    Re: If Obamacare is so bad....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Why can’t republicans come up with a better plan? How about a plan? Yea, they’ve had 6 years. We’ve had 3 full years of the exchanges. Certainly there is enough data from that alone to help come up with a plan. it doesn't even have to be a better plan. They can just lie that its better and their base wont hold them accountable. Their base just needs something to repeat over and over. I'm thinking something along the lines of “sure it covers fewer people and costs more but its better because there are no death panels”.

    Certainly even some conservatives have to start to wonder how "repeal and replace" got repealed and replaced with "repeal and delay"?
    That's right. They don't even have the start of a plan.

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    Re: If Obamacare is so bad....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Why can’t republicans come up with a better plan? How about a plan? Yea, they’ve had 6 years. We’ve had 3 full years of the exchanges. Certainly there is enough data from that alone to help come up with a plan. it doesn't even have to be a better plan. They can just lie that its better and their base wont hold them accountable. Their base just needs something to repeat over and over. I'm thinking something along the lines of “sure it covers fewer people and costs more but its better because there are no death panels”.

    Certainly even some conservatives have to start to wonder how "repeal and replace" got repealed and replaced with "repeal and delay"?
    They've been using this issue to wind up their base for so long replace has become optional. At this point, with total control of the government, it would be downright embarrassing if they didn't repeal it like a double rinded orange in the hands of a starving man. As long as they slay the beast they've been battling since time immemorial, all else is secondary. They'll own the mess afterwards and bleed votes at mid terms (on the few vulnerable seats anyway). Hopefully people realize what happens when the right has total control in 4 years.
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    Re: If Obamacare is so bad....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Why can’t republicans come up with a better plan? How about a plan? Yea, they’ve had 6 years. We’ve had 3 full years of the exchanges. Certainly there is enough data from that alone to help come up with a plan. it doesn't even have to be a better plan. They can just lie that its better and their base wont hold them accountable. Their base just needs something to repeat over and over. I'm thinking something along the lines of “sure it covers fewer people and costs more but its better because there are no death panels”.

    Certainly even some conservatives have to start to wonder how "repeal and replace" got repealed and replaced with "repeal and delay"?
    The right plan is no Obamacare at all and no involvement of government in the insurance business. Unfortunately, people aren't ready to understand that.

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    Re: If Obamacare is so bad....

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    The right plan is no Obamacare at all and no involvement of government in the insurance business. Unfortunately, people aren't ready to understand that.
    And where does that leave us?

    • Insurance premiums were rising at double-digit rates for a decade before the ACA was passed.

    • There was no guaranteed issue. Insurers spent millions trying to find reasons not to cover people who were a bad risk, or ratepayers with expensive or chronic issues.

    • We'd have to kick millions of people off of Medicaid.

    • Insurers can reinstate lifetime limits on individuals.

    • Insurers can go back to not covering preventative care.

    • No more exchanges. Ever try to buy health insurance on your own pre-ACA?

    Why is that not sounding particularly fantastic?

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    Re: If Obamacare is so bad....

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    The right plan is no Obamacare at all and no involvement of government in the insurance business. Unfortunately, people aren't ready to understand that.
    Well, you could modify that and allow people to deduct a minimum coverage package, while making it a crime to have medical treatment you cannot pay for.

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    Re: If Obamacare is so bad....

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    And where does that leave us?

    • Insurance premiums were rising at double-digit rates for a decade before the ACA was passed.

    • There was no guaranteed issue. Insurers spent millions trying to find reasons not to cover people who were a bad risk, or ratepayers with expensive or chronic issues.

    • We'd have to kick millions of people off of Medicaid.

    • Insurers can reinstate lifetime limits on individuals.

    • Insurers can go back to not covering preventative care.

    • No more exchanges. Ever try to buy health insurance on your own pre-ACA?

    Why is that not sounding particularly fantastic?
    In a country that spends about double the amount per capita on health care as other countries, insurance policies will cost much more than elsewhere. How much do you think the laborers in social democracies pay?

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    Re: If Obamacare is so bad....

    I think what people are missing is this battle is all about the 40 million people who did not have health insurance for one reason or another, prior to Obamacare.

    There are better ways to fix that than completely dismantling the existing system, and building a new federal system. Don't kid yourself. Full - on socialized, unionized medicine was the ultimate long term, goal, and the Democrats were willing use false promises to screw the 320 million who were just fine to get there.

    It's the Republicans fault for not doing anything about it when they had he numbers that led to Obamacare in the first place. So here we are, trying to construct a form of Obamacare that works.

    There are only three payers: the patient/family, the employer, or the government,
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    Re: If Obamacare is so bad....

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    And where does that leave us?

    • Insurance premiums were rising at double-digit rates for a decade before the ACA was passed.

    • There was no guaranteed issue. Insurers spent millions trying to find reasons not to cover people who were a bad risk, or ratepayers with expensive or chronic issues.

    • We'd have to kick millions of people off of Medicaid.

    • Insurers can reinstate lifetime limits on individuals.

    • Insurers can go back to not covering preventative care.

    • No more exchanges. Ever try to buy health insurance on your own pre-ACA?

    Why is that not sounding particularly fantastic?
    Prior to passage of the ACA, the numbers range from 11-18% uninsured, depending on who's studioes you believe. Most of those were not uninsurable...they were simply uninsured. many of those uninsured were by economic choice. They chose to invest in tattoos and video games and cheetos and tobacco and any number of convenience items rather than investing in health care insurance. Choice.
    That means 82-99% had somehow managed to figure out how to obtain health care. And MOST were actually quite satisfied with their coverage.
    Was health care perfect? No. Some things should have been changed. Torte reform should still be imposed. Insurance companies SHOULD be forced to not drop clients based on legitimate healthcare needs. As for the uninsured, those that were unable to financially secure healthcare should have been placed on state/fed funded healthcare. We didnt need to blow up a system...we needed an 11-18% solution.
    Ive heard it suggested that whatever system congress passed/passes/omposes, that first and foremost they and their immediate families should be subject to. Id go for that.

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    Re: If Obamacare is so bad....

    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Why can’t republicans come up with a better plan? How about a plan? Yea, they’ve had 6 years. We’ve had 3 full years of the exchanges. Certainly there is enough data from that alone to help come up with a plan. it doesn't even have to be a better plan. They can just lie that its better and their base wont hold them accountable. Their base just needs something to repeat over and over. I'm thinking something along the lines of “sure it covers fewer people and costs more but its better because there are no death panels”.

    Certainly even some conservatives have to start to wonder how "repeal and replace" got repealed and replaced with "repeal and delay"?
    Good question. Obamacare is apparently the worst thing on earth without question yet they can't just repeal it and go to how it was before or else people will be mad. Hmm...

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