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Let's figure out how we will blame Obama

Moderate Right said:
Vern, you are far too biased to debate with. There is nothing for an honest debater to grab ahold of to debate with you because you are just too partisan. But, that's you MO. You spew this extreme liberal BS until the other side just gives up so you can feel good about thinking that you won the debate.
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And..... pivot. Of course we are no longer discussing your posts and your total cluelessness (or dishonesty) that no one blamed Carter. You want to dishonestly deflect by whining about me. Its what all conservatives do. I "spew" nothing MR. I make a point and I back it up. Its why you have to post "nuh uh" over and over when you're not dishonestly deflecting.
 
Vern said:
And..... pivot. Of course we are no longer discussing your posts and your total cluelessness (or dishonesty) that no one blamed Carter. You want to dishonestly deflect by whining about me. Its what all conservatives do. I "spew" nothing MR. I make a point and I back it up. Its why you have to post "nuh uh" over and over when you're not dishonestly deflecting.
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Show me once where I ever said Carter was responsible for the mortgage bubble. In fact, I have specifically said that he didn't have anything to do with it. Put the facts where your mouth is.
 
Moderate Right said:
Show me once where I ever said Carter was responsible for the mortgage bubble. In fact, I have specifically said that he didn't have anything to do with it. Put the facts where your mouth is.
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and.......pivot again. er uh MR, I've just proven you were totally clueless (or dishonest) about the lying conservative narrative concerning Carter and the Bush Mortgage Bubble. See how you dishonestly try to deflect to "oh yea, show where I said..." If you're incapable of having an honest and intelligent conversation, why are you at a debate forum?
 
Vern said:
and.......pivot again. er uh MR, I've just proven you were totally clueless (or dishonest) about the lying conservative narrative concerning Carter and the Bush Mortgage Bubble. See how you dishonestly try to deflect to "oh yea, show where I said..." If you're incapable of having an honest and intelligent conversation, why are you at a debate forum?
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It is you who is dishonest. I am not one of them. I am a moderate. I know that the mortgage bubble was not all Bush's fault, just as I know, and have said, that Carter didn't have anything to do with the mortgage bubble. And I still have yet to see you show me where anyone blamed Carter for the mortgage bubble. Where is the proof? You keep on saying it but I have never once seen the proof. Just saying it doesn't make it fact.
 
Eric7216 said:
Well, we are the only developed country in the world without universal health care. Do you agree? Somewhere between 25 and 35 million uninsured. And apparently a declining life expectancy.
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eric, I'm going to assume you're talking to me. I pointed out that every "fact" you posted about Obamacare or even Medicaid was not true. So you resorted to the usual conservative thing where you simply repeat some and pointless phrase over and over: "not written well." But I have to ask, what point do you think you're making with your latest post? I think you're just trying to deflect from what you've posted.
 
Vern said:
eric, I'm going to assume you're talking to me. I pointed out that every "fact" you posted about Obamacare or even Medicaid was not true. So you resorted to the usual conservative thing where you simply repeat some and pointless phrase over and over: "not written well." But I have to ask, what point do you think you're making with your latest post? I think you're just trying to deflect from what you've posted.
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Nobody repeats the same pointless points more than you do.
 
RetiredUSN said:
LMAO..... Obamacare caused many companies to hire sub contractors instead of staffing 50 or more people.
Hence...............2-3 million construction and factory workers losing full time work.
Try again.
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Dittohead not! said:
You can, of course, substantiate that.
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RN, you made a claim at a debate forum. You even had numbers. You were asked politely to back that up. I just want you think about a couple of things before you cut and run for good. One, you're not ignoring his request. You're cutting and running. You should ask yourself why you felt the need to post something that has no basis in fact.

Two, this is a big one, UE is at a 10 year low. Yea, UE continued it downward trend in spite all the claims from the conservative media,. Obamacare didn't reverse UE's downward trend, it continued.

Three, I think Obamacare helped lower UE. Unbeknownst to you, lack of health care was a big impediment to people starting their own businesses. yea, as a country, we didn't promote the "entrepreneurial spirit" as much as we thought we did. 2104 was the start of the most businesses in 25 years. Sure, the Great Obama Bull Market helped with seed money but Obamacare allowed them to walk away from a job with health care benefits.


Vern said:
Hey look, Obamacare is actually unleashing the American “entrepreneurial spirit”

Startups Are Making a Comeback in America
An index of startup activity surged after a steep post-recession decline

"The Kauffman Index of Startup Activity, which is an indicator of new business creation, had the biggest increase in 2015 over the past two decades"

Startups Are Making a Comeback in America - Bloomberg Business

my my, the biggest increase in 2 decades started in 2014. mmm, I wonder how many "conservative" predictions came true? oh yea, none.
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Vern said:
RN, you made a claim at a debate forum. You even had numbers. You were asked politely to back that up. I just want you think about a couple of things before you cut and run for good. One, you're not ignoring his request. You're cutting and running. You should ask yourself why you felt the need to post something that has no basis in fact.

Two, this is a big one, UE is at a 10 year low. Yea, UE continued it downward trend in spite all the claims from the conservative media,. Obamacare didn't reverse UE's downward trend, it continued.

Three, I think Obamacare helped lower UE. Unbeknownst to you, lack of health care was a big impediment to people starting their own businesses. yea, as a country, we didn't promote the "entrepreneurial spirit" as much as we thought we did. 2104 was the start of the most businesses in 25 years. Sure, the Great Obama Bull Market helped with seed money but Obamacare allowed them to walk away from a job with health care benefits.
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Vern, Vern, Vern......

No matter what truth is thrown at you, you somehow pull out more never ending nonsense.

Companies have been replacing company workers for the past 7 years because of the ACA.

Now, I will give you a little fodder to go along with my own experience in the matter.

Are you a small business owner? I am, and I avoid hiring any permanents workers. I could keep a permanent crew of 10 at least, and keep them busy every day of the year. But I hire mostly mexican crews when I have a large project, and I turn down more work than I accept to avoid hiring Americans. I don't even care if they produce a phoney NC drivers license. I will photocopy it along with proof of workers comp to cover may azz.

Forbes Welcome

Companies Will Increasingly Use Independent Contractors To Avoid Coverage Under the Affordable Care Act/ObamaCare! | Wessels Sherman Joerg Liszka Laverty Seneczko P.C. | Minneapolis, Minnesota

https://www.agcnys.org/files/27818-0409_GCBT_WhitePaperAGC.pdf
 
RetiredUSN said:
Vern, Vern, Vern......

No matter what truth is thrown at you, you somehow pull out more never ending nonsense.

Companies have been replacing company workers for the past 7 years because of the ACA.

Now, I will give you a little fodder to go along with my own experience in the matter.

Are you a small business owner? I am, and I avoid hiring any permanents workers. I could keep a permanent crew of 10 at least, and keep them busy every day of the year. But I hire mostly mexican crews when I have a large project, and I turn down more work than I accept to avoid hiring Americans. I don't even care if they produce a phoney NC drivers license. I will photocopy it along with proof of workers comp to cover may azz.

Forbes Welcome

Companies Will Increasingly Use Independent Contractors To Avoid Coverage Under the Affordable Care Act/ObamaCare! | Wessels Sherman Joerg Liszka Laverty Seneczko P.C. | Minneapolis, Minnesota

https://www.agcnys.org/files/27818-0409_GCBT_WhitePaperAGC.pdf
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I don't mean to be a bother RN but you posted a number. You were asked to back up that number. You weren't asked to post a bunch of links and tells us your anti-American business practices. So again, you were asked to back up your claim. Hows that coming?
 
Vern said:
I don't mean to be a bother RN but you posted a number. You were asked to back up that number. You weren't asked to post a bunch of links and tells us your anti-American business practices. So again, you were asked to back up your claim. Hows that coming?
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Read for yourself. But actually, I don't feel the need to debate with anyone a mind as open as the edge of a razor.

CBO: 2 million jobs' worth of hours lost under ObamaCare | TheHill

It’s Time to Blame Obamacare for Losing So Many Full-Time Jobs | The Fiscal Times

ObamaCare and part-time employment: Shame on who? | TheHill

Yes, Obamacare Is Continuing to Hurt Employment: Newsroom: The Independent Institute

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...d-the-employer-mandate-cutting-jobs-and-wages

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/tag/obamacare-killing-jobs

Construction companies have been decimated because of Obamacare.



http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ob...ime-employment-goldman-sachs-finds-2016-06-08
 
RetiredUSN said:
Read for yourself. But actually, I don't feel the need to debate with anyone a mind as open as the edge of a razor.

CBO: 2 million jobs' worth of hours lost under ObamaCare | TheHill

It’s Time to Blame Obamacare for Losing So Many Full-Time Jobs | The Fiscal Times

ObamaCare and part-time employment: Shame on who? | TheHill

Yes, Obamacare Is Continuing to Hurt Employment: Newsroom: The Independent Institute

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...d-the-employer-mandate-cutting-jobs-and-wages

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/tag/obamacare-killing-jobs

Construction companies have been decimated because of Obamacare.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ob...ime-employment-goldman-sachs-finds-2016-06-08
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oooo RN, I looked the at links in your last "hey, here's a bunch of links" post. Please cut and paste the part that backs up the numbers you claimed. If I didn't know better, I would think your latest "hey, here's a bunch of links" post was just a cowardly dodge. Sure, conservatives post cowardly dodges all the time but I really thought you were different. After that then we can discuss your anti-American business practices.
 
Vern said:
oooo RN, I looked the at links in your last "hey, here's a bunch of links" post. Please cut and paste the part that backs up the numbers you claimed. If I didn't know better, I would think your latest "hey, here's a bunch of links" post was just a cowardly dodge. Sure, conservatives post cowardly dodges all the time but I really thought you were different. then we can discuss your anti-American business practices.
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LOL........nice try

I am 100 percent legal with what I do, and I do quite well with it.

What have you ran in your lifetime where your entire bankroll was on the line? Fellow DP'ers would love to know.
 
RetiredUSN said:
LOL........nice try

I am 100 percent legal with what I do, and I do quite well with it.

What have you ran in your lifetime where your entire bankroll was on the line? Fellow DP'ers would love to know.
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Yes yes we know you meet the legal requirement to get a SSN but you admitted you knowingly hired illegal aliens. But Rn, we weren't discussing your anti-American business practices. We were discussing the false numbers you posted in your obedient flailing at Obamacare. whining at me doest address that. Neither does your confession about your anti-American business practices. So again please cut and paste the part that backs up the numbers you claim.
 
Vern said:
Yes yes we know you meet the legal requirement to get a SSN but you admitted you knowingly hired illegal aliens. But Rn, we weren't discussing your anti-American business practices. We were discussing the false numbers you posted in your obedient flailing at Obamacare. whining at me doest address that. Neither does your confession about your anti-American business practices. So again please cut and paste the part that backs up the numbers you claim.
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Vern, I posted articles that backed my claim, and I cannot help it that you constantly refuse information that doesn't suit your agenda.

You wouldn't know the construction industry if I dropped you right in the middle a project.

Welcome to the new America Vern......................brought to you by Rinos and liberals.

We are done here.. Have a great day sport!
 
RetiredUSN said:
Vern, I posted articles that backed my claim, and I cannot help it that you constantly refuse information that doesn't suit your agenda.
You wouldn't know the construction industry if I dropped you right in the middle a project.
Welcome to the new America Vern......................brought to you by Rinos and liberals.
We are done here.. Have a great day sport!
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first I hope you don't mind I deleted the empty lines. It just seems that conservatives (and conservative like posters) have nothing to say, they say it with double spacing. Now RN, you made this claim: 2-3 million construction and factory workers losing full time work. You posted how many editorials? It seems like you felt the need to post a bunch of editorials instead of backing up your blurb. Surely you can cut and paste the blurb from one of them that backs up that statement. I hope you're not just another conservative (or conservative like posters) who posts what he wishes was true instead of the facts.

Then we can discuss your anti-American business practices.
 
Vern said:
first I hope you don't mind I deleted the empty lines. It just seems that conservatives (and conservative like posters) have nothing to say, they say it with double spacing. Now RN, you made this claim: 2-3 million construction and factory workers losing full time work. You posted how many editorials? It seems like you felt the need to post a bunch of editorials instead of backing up your blurb. Surely you can cut and paste the blurb from one of them that backs up that statement. I hope you're not just another conservative (or conservative like posters) who posts what he wishes was true instead of the facts.

Then we can discuss your anti-American business practices.
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Most rational people do not live in your fantasy world Vern.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Most rational people do not live in your fantasy world Vern.
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Mmmm, I see you’re still confused by the concept of backing up your post. Sadly that concept confuses all conservatives. You made a claim. You were asked to back it up. You weren’t asked to post all the editorials you could find that may or may not be related to the topic. You were asked to back up your claim. But RN, your posts follow a typical pattern.

Con makes claim
Con is asked to back up claim
Con does not back up claim
Con desperately tries to deflect and whines at and about Vern

We about to start the 4th open enrollment period and you’re still spewing long since proven false conservative narratives. I bet you still get mad when people say President Obama was born in Hawaii because you can post dozens of editorials that prove he was born in Kenya. RN, as I’ve said many times, when it comes time for a conservative to choose narrative or integrity, they always choose narrative

Anyhoo, since you’ve decided to cowardly deflect from your false conservative narrative, I guess we can discuss your anti-American business practices. Why do you refuse to hire American workers? And yet you complain about jobs? And what a flaming hypocrite you are. Obamacare gave 20 million people healthcare and gave all Americans a lower deficit and higher quality care but you feign concern about jobs as you admit you hire illegal immigrants. How does that make sense to you?
 
Vern said:
Mmmm, I see you’re still confused by the concept of backing up your post. Sadly that concept confuses all conservatives. You made a claim. You were asked to back it up. You weren’t asked to post all the editorials you could find that may or may not be related to the topic. You were asked to back up your claim. But RN, your posts follow a typical pattern.

Con makes claim
Con is asked to back up claim
Con does not back up claim
Con desperately tries to deflect and whines at and about Vern

We about to start the 4th open enrollment period and you’re still spewing long since proven false conservative narratives. I bet you still get mad when people say President Obama was born in Hawaii because you can post dozens of editorials that prove he was born in Kenya. RN, as I’ve said many times, when it comes time for a conservative to choose narrative or integrity, they always choose narrative

Anyhoo, since you’ve decided to cowardly deflect from your false conservative narrative, I guess we can discuss your anti-American business practices. Why do you refuse to hire American workers? And yet you complain about jobs? And what a flaming hypocrite you are. Obamacare gave 20 million people healthcare and gave all Americans a lower deficit and higher quality care but you feign concern about jobs as you admit you hire illegal immigrants. How does that make sense to you?
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Just more manure.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Just more manure.
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If you're incapable of responding in an intelligent and honest manor, you should ask yourself why you are at a debate forum. Lets review

You made a claim.
You refused to back it up
You whine at and about me.

And for some odd reason you admit you refuse to hire Americans as you pretend to be concerned about jobs. How does that make sense to you?
 
Vern said:
If you're incapable of responding in an intelligent and honest manor, you should ask yourself why you are at a debate forum. Lets review

You made a claim.
You refused to back it up
You whine at and about me.

And for some odd reason you admit you refuse to hire Americans as you pretend to be concerned about jobs. How does that make sense to you?
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I threw the numbers at you, and you refuse to look.

Get a life.

I hope your enjoying Americans working 30 hour weeks without benefits.
 
RetiredUSN said:
I threw the numbers at you, and you refuse to look.
Get a life.
I hope your enjoying Americans working 30 hour weeks without benefits.
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no silly, you threw a bunch of links at me. It was simply a cowardly dodge instead of backing up the numbers you posted. You made a claim and refuse to back it up. shocking. And I have to laugh as you continue to feign indignation about people working part time (that you refuse to back up) as you bragged you refuse to hire Americans. As low as the UE rate is just think how much lower it would be if all the greedy and corrupt business owners like yourself hired Americans instead of illegal immigrants.
 
Vern said:
no silly, you threw a bunch of links at me. It was simply a cowardly dodge instead of backing up the numbers you posted. You made a claim and refuse to back it up. shocking. And I have to laugh as you continue to feign indignation about people working part time (that you refuse to back up) as you bragged you refuse to hire Americans. As low as the UE rate is just think how much lower it would be if all the greedy and corrupt business owners like yourself hired Americans instead of illegal immigrants.
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Too funny. He throws links at you to prove the point. You refuse to even read the links and then claim that he did not prove his point. You liberals are just too much. It's laughable really.
 
Moderate Right said:
Too funny. He throws links at you to prove the point. You refuse to even read the links and then claim that he did not prove his point. You liberals are just too much. It's laughable really.
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But MR, the links didn't prove his point. And you simply continue to prove my point that the concept of “backing up a claim” confuses all conservatives. RN, made a claim. He was asked to back up the point. He couldn't back up his point so he posted "a bunch of links" to give the impression he backed up his point. I called him out as so he resorts to whining at and about me, just like you. Again, when it comes time for conservatives to choose narrative or integrity, you choose narrative. Anyhoo, for future reference, here’s an example of backing up a point. It follows a simple pattern, Claim, Blurb, Link.

Claim
The Bush Mortgage bubble started late 2004

Relevant Blurb backing up that point
“The Presidents Working Group’s March policy statement acknowledged that turmoil in financial markets clearly was triggered by a dramatic weakening of underwriting standards for U.S. subprime mortgages, beginning in late 2004 and extending into 2007.”

Link
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/fin-mkts/Documents/q4progress update.pdf

Use this as a guide for future posts. Use your whining as a guide for what not to post. Oh and MR, your conservative masters appreciate your obedient flailing.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Read for yourself. But actually, I don't feel the need to debate with anyone a mind as open as the edge of a razor.
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Who said working part-time is a bad thing? I'm confused, don't Conservatives preach family values? How can you reconcile family values while at the same time complaining about workers needing to work more hours, taking them away from their families???

Cognitive dissonance, much?

There's no scenario in that thought bubble that doesn't result in either single payer or a raise in wages.
 
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