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Black Lives Matter is Out of Proportion with Reality

And I believe the issues facing the Black Community economically can be dealt with by the Black Community if we stopped imprisoning 1 in 3 Black People... Just saying, they are more than up to the task. We just need to remove their largest Predator.
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If we failed to imprison the young black men who do the most crime.....we would be keeping their largest predator at large and predating.

The solution is more incarceration of the predators, not less.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Ah, you don't care about them as people, just how they behave in relation to you and society.

You don't see how that's racist? I am honestly asking.
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I don't care how any collective group feels. If for instance I "feel" like the world is against me, that is my problem. Not the world's problem.
 
If the BlackLivesMatter people want to have a shot at respectability they should start with a general apology to America......and then apologizing to people like Darrin Wilson and scheduling demonstrations to protest the many murders of police officers that have happened since they started their toxic movement.

That might save their movement. Otherwise, they are more hated every day.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Ok, what does unemployment and marriage rates have to do with Police training methods, Court Policy, Sentencing Guidelines, and Prison conditions? Your arguing there can not be institutional racism because no one is openly racist anymore? Try again.
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Well, again, back to the mission statement of BLM that data suggests that (perhaps) there is not the systemic and intentional racism that they claim exists. Keep in mind also that their mission statement does not limit itself to simply interactions with LEO.
 
Female cop beaten by another animal. Multiple facial fractures and she left the the job a few months later. Right in front of his daughter...................effing animal!

 
FreedomFromAll said:
Black Lives Matter is propaganda by the very extreme left. SO of course propaganda is out of touch with reality.
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Explain how cell phone video of uniformed officials shooting unarmed, non-threatening Blacks counts as "propoganda."
 
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Vox said:
If the BlackLivesMatter people want to have a shot at respectability they should start with a general apology to America......
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Yep they should apologize for putting uniformed thugs on candidate camera :rolleyes:
 
solletica said:
Explain how cell phone video of uniformed officials shooting unarmed, non-threatening Blacks counts as "propoganda."
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Because the incidents are isolated and they are presented as though there is a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks nationwide, which I do not believe is the whole truth. This exaggeration creates the perception that there is a serious nationwide problem that doesn't exist. That is how it is propaganda. It is presenting a false narrative to the public for political gain.
 
kamikaze483 said:
Because the incidents are isolated and they are presented as though there is a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks nationwide, which I do not believe is the whole truth. This exaggeration creates the perception that there is a serious nationwide problem that doesn't exist. That is how it is propaganda. It is presenting a false narrative to the public for political gain.
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On the contrary, I would expect several independent events which lead to the same conclusion to be indicative of that conclusion. I'm not saying that correlation implies any cause, but there is a correlation.
 
Celebrity said:
On the contrary, I would expect several independent events which lead to the same conclusion to be indicative of that conclusion. I'm not saying that correlation implies any cause, but there is a correlation.
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That was a thoughtful response. Let me counter this way:

I own a business that bills customer after the service is provided. Sometimes customers don't pay their bill. We considered that there were several thousand dollars in unpaid accounts and what to do about it. We could bill in advance, require a security deposit, engage in harsh collection efforts... etc.

When we looked at this several thousand dollars and compared it to our companies total revenues, we saw that is was .02% of total revenue. Even though it was a lot of money, it was insignificant in the grand scheme of things to suggest that sweeping changes were necessary.

I have not argued that there is NO targeting of blacks by cops. What I have argued here is that the targeting that does occur is FAR from a systemic nationwide crisis that justifies the type of revolt and demand for sweeping changes that BLM has endorsed. Certainly, there (as you said) is a correlation between several independent events. But in the grand scheme of things- with the vast number of police interactions that occur nationwide each year- these types of incidents are such a tiny percentage that reform efforts should be limited to the cities where these incidents have occurred, rather than bringing it to the forefront of domestic politics, as if it is a scourge that is eating through the very fabric of society.

Presenting it the way they have is definitely an attempt to harness several incidents and use them to create the impression of a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks across the country.
 
kamikaze483 said:
That was a thoughtful response. Let me counter this way:

I own a business that bills customer after the service is provided. Sometimes customers don't pay their bill. We considered that there were several thousand dollars in unpaid accounts and what to do about it. We could bill in advance, require a security deposit, engage in harsh collection efforts... etc.

When we looked at this several thousand dollars and compared it to our companies total revenues, we saw that is was .02% of total revenue. Even though it was a lot of money, it was insignificant in the grand scheme of things to suggest that sweeping changes were necessary.

I have not argued that there is NO targeting of blacks by cops. What I have argued here is that the targeting that does occur is FAR from a systemic nationwide crisis that justifies the type of revolt and demand for sweeping changes that BLM has endorsed. Certainly, there (as you said) is a correlation between several independent events. But in the grand scheme of things- with the vast number of police interactions that occur nationwide each year- these types of incidents are such a tiny percentage that reform efforts should be limited to the cities where these incidents have occurred, rather than bringing it to the forefront of domestic politics, as if it is a scourge that is eating through the very fabric of society.

Presenting it the way they have is definitely an attempt to harness several incidents and use them to create the impression of a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks across the country.
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Ok but the correlation between blacks as a minority and blacks as widely targeted by police doesn't seem to be affected by revenue. What we would see in a random sample of racial groups would show proportionally less blacks, and therefore equally brutal treatment of blacks would yield far fewer black victims because they represent a minority in the population.
 
kamikaze483 said:
Yet, if statistically there is not reason to believe that this is occurring other than in isolated instances, then their claim that the problem is "systemic and intentional" is not valid.



Leading by example... in the terms that one person throws a brick through a window in Ferguson and everyone else joins in. That's the only leading by example I have seen from this group.

I believe that this type of organization is destructive to constructive dialogue. When a co-founder of an organization takes the inclusive statement that "All Lives Matter," and declares that such a statement is racist (#AllLivesMatter hashtag is racist, critics say), then the organization is pushing a separatist agenda which is at odds with the alleged goal of healing racial divide. IMHO.
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Well said. I've been saying that all along.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
TheGoverness said:
I heard that from a podcast about a year ago. A member of the BLM movement was talking about how BLM means Black Lives Matter too, and one of the people on the podcast said: "then why not just add that word in there?"
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They don't add, "too", because Black Lives Matter doesn't give a rat's ass about black lives. BLM is a political movement is a political movement, using black folks as their pawns.
 
solletica said:
Explain how cell phone video of uniformed officials shooting unarmed, non-threatening Blacks counts as "propoganda."
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Because we only hear about it when black people are shot by white cops.

Black shoots black person - crickets

Black cop shoots white person - crickets

Hispanic cop - crickets

White cop shoots white person - crickets.

90%+ of black murder victims are murdered by black murderers - crickets. In fact, bringing that statistic up is met with accusations of racism.

An Hispanic cop shot that dude in Miami last week. That's story's over.
 
kamikaze483 said:
On their website, Black Lives Matter lists the following mission statement: "Black Lives Matter is an ideological and political intervention in a world where Black lives are systematically and intentionally targeted for demise. It is an affirmation of Black folks’ contributions to this society, our humanity, and our resilience in the face of deadly oppression."

Here are two questions for discussion:

1. Is there truly a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks by white officers with regard to police shootings, or is this simply hyperbolic political rhetoric?
2. Does the "deadly oppression" they mention in their mission statement truly exist?

I'm sure there have been plenty of threads on this, but the Washington Post published a database on police shootings:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/

Key Statistics:

990 people were shot by cops in 2015.
494 were white (49.9%)
258 were black (26%)
90 victims were unarmed.

In a separate article, the Post states that "white police officers killing unarmed black men — represent less than 4 percent of fatal police shootings." Police fatally shoot nearly 1,000 people in 2015 | The Washington Post

By the Post's numbers, therefore, killings of unarmed black men by white cops (4% of 90 unarmed victims) resulted in the shooting of 39.6 unarmed black people by white cops.

At the same time, the New York Times reports the following: "Black and white civilians involved in police shootings were equally likely to have been carrying a weapon." Conversely, this would mean that blacks and whites were equally likely to be UNARMED. Back to the data from the Post, this would mean that around 40 blacks and 40 whites were killed by police in 2015.

Next, lets look at crime data from the FBI: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

69% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by whites
28% of all crimes committed in the US are committed by blacks

Last, we have to look at the racial breakdown of the population as a whole: Census: White majority in U.S. gone by 2043 - U.S. News

Whites: 63%
Blacks: 17%

When we look at this data, we see a differential in white crime vs. white population of only -5%. Yet, we see a differential of black vs. black population of +11%. So 17% of the population commits 28% of the crime.

Looking at this data, I believe that racially motivated shootings of black men by white cops are extreme outliers and in no way reflect a "systemic and intentional" targeting of blacks.
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BLM isn't a pro black movement, it is an anti police movement.
 
Vox said:
If we failed to imprison the young black men who do the most crime.....we would be keeping their largest predator at large and predating.

The solution is more incarceration of the predators, not less.
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There are more Black people in jail, than there were slaves during slavery. Most first time offenders are non violent, young, and trying to turn a quick buck after being poor threir whole lives watching their family struggle. Because of the Drug war and its harsh sentencing guidelines, they become unhireable. They learn how to be violent in prison, and they learn to network with other criminals. A non violent first time offender, comes out after a couple years unreformed, angry, and unable to pass a background check. Faced with no prospects they tap that network.

Criminals call Prison Con College, you come out worse than when you went in. So even if you were correct in your assumption that young black men are just inherently more dangerous prison is not the answer.

kamikaze483 said:
Well, again, back to the mission statement of BLM that data suggests that (perhaps) there is not the systemic and intentional racism that they claim exists. Keep in mind also that their mission statement does not limit itself to simply interactions with LEO.
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Yeah, your right it is an anti police, anti prison, anti court, and anti establishment group and anti old white man movement. Koodos to you for guessing something people have been trying to tell you to your face. You think BLM just wants police to treat them nice, and they'll be happy? No the system needs to be changed. From how police are trained, to what proper procedure entails. I recognize the blindingly obvious bias inherent in our system. And i agree with their mission statement, even though I benefit from that bias. Your problem is, you benefit from this bias, and will do or say anything to keep the status quo. You have already admitted you don't care about them as people, at least USNavyRetired has the balls to be openly racist. And no matter how much you argue police targeting blacks is rare and isolated, I will argue that those charged with defending the public should have zero rare and isolated incidents. A persons life isn't a statistic or so callously dismissed because only a few innocent unarmed black people die when so many don't... And when they do, the DA, courts, and other officers shouldn't cover it up. You think the ones we hear about are the issue, the cops who get caught on camera? No, its the ones that get away with it because the system protects their own, and sheeple accept their official statements, because cops aren't normal humans they don't ever lie. And ignoring this because the group covering up isn't releasing their own crimes in their statistics is either an attempt at misdirection, or blind stupid ignorance. For every one cop caught on camera shooting an innocent person, there are fifty more using a tazer that aren't caught on camera. As well as group beatings, and "rough rides". But let me guess, you don't care about that. There's no statistics, absent human emotion, detailing how often a cop successfully covers up their own misdeed, and you can't believe the victims because they have an anti police agenda and can't be trusted because, you know, they are black.

And yeah when things come to a boil, because fools like you who bark the loudest won't enterain the idea the police, courts, and govenrment aren't the upstanding institutions you think they are, there will be violence. Because, contrary to what your narrative suggests, Black People aren't second class citizens. And are entitled to whatever treatment they feel they want or need. Acting like they are not, is whats going to cause the violence. In short, you and people like you are the problem.
 
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Originally Posted by Vox:
If we failed to imprison the young black men who do the most crime.....we would be keeping their largest predator at large and predating. They kill each other. They are their own predators. The solution is more incarceration of the predators, not less.
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Response:
There are more Black people in jail, than there were slaves during slavery. Most first time offenders are non violent, young, and trying to turn a quick buck after being poor threir whole lives watching their family struggle. Because of the Drug war and its harsh sentencing guidelines, they become unhireable. They learn how to be violent in prison, and they learn to network with other criminals. A non violent first time offender, comes out after a couple years unreformed, angry, and unable to pass a background check. Faced with no prospects they tap that network.
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No.......they don't have to go to prison to learn violence--they learn it at home and on the street.

There may be a lot of them in prison, but the mayhem on the streets proves there are not ENOUGH of them in prison.

They don't get hired because they lack education, skills and have a bad attitude.......do you realize that most can't read at a fourth grade level when they graduate?

Prospects? LOL! They never HAD any prospects. NONE.

Fix their poverty, their self-segregation and their anger and hate and they won't be breaking the law in the first place.

The ROOT of the problem is poverty and NOBODY is trying to FIX IT!!!!

Not even the first black president........go figure.
 
Vox said:
Originally Posted by Vox:


Response:


No.......they don't have to go to prison to learn violence--they learn it at home and on the street.

There may be a lot of them in prison, but the mayhem on the streets proves there are not ENOUGH of them in prison.

They don't get hired because they lack education, skills and have a bad attitude.......do you realize that most can't read at a fourth grade level when they graduate?

Prospects? LOL! They never HAD any prospects. NONE.

Fix their poverty, their self-segregation and their anger and hate and they won't be breaking the law in the first place.

The ROOT of the problem is poverty and NOBODY is trying to FIX IT!!!!

Not even the first black president........go figure.
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(State and Federal Prison Populations by Race, Gender, and Latino/Hispanic Ethnicity, 2014) "An estimated 516,900 black males were in state or federal prison at yearend 2014, accounting for 37% of the male prison population (table 10, appendix table 3). White males made up 32% of the male prison population (453,500 prison inmates), followed by Hispanics (308,700 inmates or 22%). White females (53,100 prisoners) in state or federal prison at yearend 2014 outnumbered both black (22,600) and Hispanic (17,800) females.
"As a percentage of residents of all ages at yearend 2014, 2.7% of black males (or 2,724 per 100,000 black male residents) and 1.1% of Hispanic males (1,090 per 100,000 Hispanic males) were serving sentences of at least 1 year in prison, compared to less than 0.5% of white males (465 per 100,000 white male residents). On December 31, 2014, black males had higher imprisonment rates than prisoners of other races or Hispanic origin within every age group. Imprisonment rates for black males were 3.8 to 10.5 times greater at each age group than white males and 1.4 to 3.1 times greater than rates for Hispanic males. The largest disparity between white and black male prisoners occurred among inmates ages 18 to 19. Black males (1,072 prisoners per 100,000 black male residents ages 18 to 19) were more than 10 times more likely to be in state or federal prison than whites (102 per 100,000)."

(People In The US Serving Time In State Prison For Drug Offenses, by Race, 2013) The most serious offense for 208,000 of the 1,325,305 people in the US sentenced to state facilities at the end of 2013 was a conviction involving illegal drugs. That represents 15% of all sentenced prisoners under state jurisdiction. Of this total: 67,800 (32.6%) were non-Hispanic white, 79,900 (38.4%) were non-Latino/Hispanic African Americans, and 39,900 (19.2%) were Latino/Hispanic.

(Note: The Bureau of Justice Statistics annual report on prisoners does not provide separate counts for inmates who identify as American Indians, Alaska Natives, Asians, Native Hawaiians, other Pacific Islanders, and persons identifying two or more races.)

Source: Carson, E. Ann. Prisoners In 2014. Washington, DC: US Dept of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics, Sept. 2015, NCJ248955, Table 11, p. 16; Appendix Table 4, p. 30.
Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Prisoners in 2014
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p14.pdf
- See more at: Race and Prison | Drug War Facts

Source: Carson, E. Ann. Prisoners In 2014. Washington, DC: US Dept of Justice Bureau of Justice Statistics, Sept. 2015, NCJ248955, p. 15.
Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Prisoners in 2014 http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p14.pdf
- See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/node/64#sthash.Y7LiC5bW.

Note that of the 208,000 sentenced in 2013 for non violent drug crime, 38 percent of the convicted are African American while as 32 percent are white. Why is that when the drug use rate of the black population is roughly the same as the white per capita. You would think to see the white number to be signifigantly higher.

The first paragraph is people incarcerated longer than a year with an emphasis on the big difference in black youth population vs every other race. The second paragraph is how many are sentenced each year for non violent drugs for longer than a year. At 80,000 per year mostly 18 19 year olds, how many thousands of those non violent drug offenders come out still non violent? How many will be hired with a felony on their record? Their choice is crime or welfare.

But hey thanks for categorizing an entire race of people as degenrate and violent worthy only of prison in your comment. The more you say things like that, the more your true motives are revealed. Doesn't ignorance and hate get tiresome after awhile?
 
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