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Perhaps the most important Trump analysis yet.

Gaugingcatenate said:
You mean after the twin disasters of the Ds electing Obama? Nah.
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Obama was the R's fault. McCain/Palin? Seriously? And now, when the Dems have put Clinton forward the Reps come up with maybe the only candidate they had available that she could beat. Clinton will be the Republicans fault, too.
 
Grand Mal said:
Obama was the R's fault. McCain/Palin? Seriously? And now, when the Dems have put Clinton forward the Reps come up with maybe the only candidate they had available that she could beat. Clinton will be the Republicans fault, too.
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You start out right, too bad you cant keep it going.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
You mean after the twin disasters of the Ds electing Obama? Nah.
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Obama, a Harvard Law School grad, is not quite the Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dumb combo of Palin-Trump. I know you all (Righties) like to paint the Democrat president as the "worst ever." But if you read Frum's article, he addresses that disconnect from reality too.
 
upsideguy said:
I suppose to a group of people that think Trump or Palin are Presidential material, Obama would look like a disaster. For thinking folk, however, I think you would have a much different assessment. Case in point, Obama is already ranked as one of our better presidents in recent survey's of political science professors (you know, thinking folk)....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States
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Yes, I have worked with, gone to university with those "thinking" types that could not start or run a business if their lives, the lives of all their family and friends, depended upon it. So, sure, if you are a "thinking" blind kinda person, you go for the sleaze, the corruption, the candidates who sound [to your side] impressive because they can read a teleprompter with ease, like its their own words, so can lie without seeming to lie, those thinkers that haven't the faintest clue about our heritage and how important it is and was...

You know the types, the ones that say they are for women's rights and then try to destroy those rightfully going after their husband for sexual harassment/abuse/rape, the ones taking money in pay to play schemes... or the divisive ones that say they are for bringing America together and yet do everything to divide us up into separate, warring camps... you know, the ones on that "thinking" side... ha ha ha ha, what a fantasy your side has convinced itself is the "truth".

No wonder your side has the most comedians, y'all are funny.
 
calamity said:
Obama, a Harvard Law School grad, is not quite the Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dumb combo of Palin-Trump. I know you all (Righties) like to paint the Democrat president as the "worst ever." But if you read Frum's article, he addresses that disconnect from reality too.
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Yeah yeah yeah, Obama is the epitome, the poster child, of why affirmative action often hurts rather than helps. Yes, he learned how to pronounce the words correctly, but the guy is a prejudiced, agenda driven hack. That he has done so much to divide us and yet he is still worshiped by the few after so much ongoing failure... well, sure, who wouldn't look good compared to an highly educated fool?

And you see, I don't take my views from the overly educated lost folk. I read and look for the truth, myself... Frum every once in a while might have a distant glimpse of the truth, but seldom gets anywhere closer than an echo of what might actually be true. I do not need a middle man to tell me what I can clearly see myself. Obama is, and while there is a lot of competition what with Carter, LB Johnson, FDR and ol Woody Wilson in just the last hundred years to be compared to, one of the very worst presidents this country has ever had. If we are lucky, that we will ever have.

My hope is that Trump will stir things up enough to somehow knock us back on track. I look forward with the ideas of "hope and change", hope our country changes back to being more like what it is supposed to be.
 
Grand Mal said:
Obama was the R's fault. McCain/Palin? Seriously? And now, when the Dems have put Clinton forward the Reps come up with maybe the only candidate they had available that she could beat. Clinton will be the Republicans fault, too.
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Nah, cannot blame Obama on the Republicans... while not my choice at all, especially McCain, he and Palin would have my country in much better shape after 8 years than the old Barry and Joe show. The economy would be better, race relations would be better, our military would not be hollowed out, the Justice Department could take its rightful name instead of the Injustice Department, the flubbed Iran deal would have been handled much better, stronger with protections to our allies and the world... and hell, McCain would have been a poor president, just much better than the alternative.

Besides which, Trump will win, Clinton should be behind bars... and if there is any justice left in the world, she will be.
 
cpwill said:
The outline of this is worth posting:



Donald Trump is trash. He peddles conspiracy theories, attacks opponents families, threatens those whom he finds inconvenient, and lashes out viciously at anyone who disagrees with him. He belongs as a character on the Kim Kardashian show, and is wholly unfit for the office of the President of the United States.



Donald Trump is a serial liar who hasn't even read his own policy statements, and feels no particular compunction to actually do anything that he has promised. He lies when he doesn't need to, he lies in obvious ways, he lies in ways where seemingly the only purpose is to get others to corrupt themselves in order to continue defending him.



Donald Trump knows less about public policy than the average member of this forum, or even the below average members of this forum. He thought Judges signed bills and conducted investigations. He thought he could threaten Paul Ryan (some of his supporters, hilariously, thought he could fire him). He didn't know his own immigration policy, he has demonstrated zero interest in learning.



Donald Trump is a liberal authoritarian, who - his words - would more correctly be identified as a Democrat than a Republican. This is a guy who wanders into talking about how we need government-provided universal health coverage, higher minimum wages, a larger regulatory state, and a federal government that has been increased in both size and scope. He is openly dismissive of Constitutional restraints on the power he expects to wield as President.



And yet, despite the deep expertise in national security that comes from watching talk shows, he didn't even know what the nuclear Triad was, much less how he intended to handle the most important decision a President can ever make. He has no plan on how to handle terrorism other than posturing (and, in fact, his "plan" changed rapidly), he lies continually on his previous positions in order to try to make himself look smarter, he didn't even know who we were at war with. And, again, he is derisive of the notion that he should. Not only is he completely ignorant to the task, he thinks that's fine.



Donald Trump casually attacks a Judge for being "Mexican". The Judge was born and raised in Indiana, but that doesn't matter to Trump, because Trump defines people by their enthicity. He tosses out as a suggestion the simple banning of an entire religious creed from the United States.



...and all you will get is increasing banal evil.
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Excellent post and analysis.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
Yeah yeah yeah, Obama is the epitome, the poster child, of why affirmative action often hurts rather than helps. Yes, he learned how to pronounce the words correctly, but the guy is a prejudiced, agenda driven hack. That he has done so much to divide us and yet he is still worshiped by the few after so much ongoing failure... well, sure, who wouldn't look good compared to an highly educated fool?

And you see, I don't take my views from the overly educated lost folk. I read and look for the truth, myself... Frum every once in a while might have a distant glimpse of the truth, but seldom gets anywhere closer than an echo of what might actually be true. I do not need a middle man to tell me what I can clearly see myself. Obama is, and while there is a lot of competition what with Carter, LB Johnson, FDR and ol Woody Wilson in just the last hundred years to be compared to, one of the very worst presidents this country has ever had. If we are lucky, that we will ever have.

My hope is that Trump will stir things up enough to somehow knock us back on track. I look forward with the ideas of "hope and change", hope our country changes back to being more like what it is supposed to be.
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And what exactly is that?
 
calamity said:
And what exactly is that?
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No exactly about it. Pretty blunt instrument, our Constitution. Less federal government intervention in everyday life, stick closer, within reason, to what was originally promised, agreed upon. In writing. Give more freedom back, make our own choices without government constantly looking over our shoulders. Its exactly wherever we legitimately as a country want to go.

See anything wrong with that as an appropriately liberty conscious advocacy?
 
A good one here:

I was wrong: Trump WILL be the next president
Jake Novak
A few months ago, I wrote that Donald Trump would win the GOP presidential nomination – but that would be the end of the line for him. I was sure that Trump just couldn't shore up enough of the already too small Republican base to win in November, thus nearly guaranteeing not only a loss but a big loss to Hillary Clinton in the general election.

Well, I was wrong.
In the 80-odd days since I wrote that piece, I've been seeing more and more evidence of why my predictions for Trump's demise were wrong — and that his chances of winning in the general election look pretty decent.

The biggest reason is something very familiar to CNBC's audience: management. In this case, it's the kind of disruptive management that refuses to accept all the conventional wisdom and truly disrupts the status quo.

Trump, a supposed political neophyte, seems to understand the Republican base better than party leaders. Trump may have failed to win over all the conservative elites represented by people like Bill Kristol and the National Review editorial board. But what I and others forgot was that on Election Day, there's not enough of that conservative elite base to fill a phone booth. Securing their support is no way to win a general election.

And, as Mitt Romney found out the hard way in 2012, even being a more moderate mainstream conservative with experience winning and running a liberal state like Massachusetts isn't good enough to win the White House anymore. And it's also impossible to hold down the conservative support and expand the potential Republican voting base at the same time.

What Trump and his advisers clearly realized a long time ago was that it would have to really disrupt the hardened "red/blue" divide to win. America's demographics, news media, and educational establishments have all successfully destroyed the traditional Republican message for at least a generation.
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http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/01/i-wa...line|story&par=yahoo&doc=103681058&yptr=yahoo
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
No exactly about it. Pretty blunt instrument, our Constitution. Less federal government intervention in everyday life, stick closer, within reason, to what was originally promised, agreed upon. In writing. Give more freedom back, make our own choices without government constantly looking over our shoulders. Its exactly wherever we legitimately as a country want to go.

See anything wrong with that as an appropriately liberty conscious advocacy?
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Hey, I like Gary Johnson (I liked Rand Paul but he never stood a chance). So, I agree with a lot of that.

But, I also have a deep suspicion that if we had too much libertarianism, we'd still be driving on dirt roads from NY to California, and the South would still be relying on candles to read at night.

Government is necessary evil. No government, no interstate highway system. No government, no TVA dams and all that electrical power bring juice to Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, Huntsville and beyond.

When it comes to things we need, you can't always rely on private enterprise. Going to the moon, finding a new drug to replace antibiotics, developing cars that run on electricity or water or whatever...all those things need government support.
 
calamity said:
Hey, I like Gary Johnson (I liked Rand Paul but he never stood a chance). So, I agree with a lot of that.

But, I also have a deep suspicion that if we had too much libertarianism, we'd still be driving on dirt roads from NY to California, and the South would still be relying on candles to read at night.

Government is necessary evil. No government, no interstate highway system. No government, no TVA dams and all that electrical power bring juice to Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, Huntsville and beyond.

When it comes to things we need, you can't always rely on private enterprise. Going to the moon, finding a new drug to replace antibiotics, developing cars that run on electricity or water or whatever...all those things need government support.
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No question about it, we need a strong yet small central govt. to do what the Constitution requires, PROVIDE for the Common Defense and stay completely out of Social programs except those mandated by the Federal Govt, SS and Medicare. There is no justification for the massive social engineering by the Federal Govt. and legislation through the courts by liberals on issues like SSM, Healthcare, Unemployment benefits as all are State issues and state responsibilities since it is the citizens of those states that are responsible for the expenses from those issues.

We certainly do not need the 4.1 TRILLION Dollar Federal Govt. Obama has proposed not if the economy is as strong as Obama supporters claim nor do we need social engineering proposed by Obama as he attempts to transform this country to the European Socialist model where Govt. spending is the major component of GDP.
 
Gaugingcatenate said:
You mean after the twin disasters of the Ds electing Obama? Nah.
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Shall we look at the state of the economy when Bush left office and the state of the economy today?

(And if you bring up those not participating in the workforce, do take care to acknowledge the Boomer Effect)



I don't like Obama much at all, but calling his election a "disaster" is hyperbole in the extreme.
 
Mr Person said:
Shall we look at the state of the economy when Bush left office and the state of the economy today?

(And if you bring up those not participating in the workforce, do take care to acknowledge the Boomer Effect)



I don't like Obama much at all, but calling his election a "disaster" is hyperbole in the extreme.
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The problem is you buy the leftwing spin and ignore basic civics. Want to compare the Bush 8 year results to Obama?

Let's start with GDP growth, Bush 10.2 trillion to 14.7 trillion(end of 2008)
Obama 14.7 trillion to 17.9 trillion

Winner Bush

Debt Bush 5.7 trillion to 10.6 trillion
Obama 10.6 trillion to 19.2 trillion

Winner Bush

Employment Bush 137 million to 146 Million(9 million) through 7 years but with a Democrat Controlled Congress 142 million(5 million)
Obama 142 million to 151 million (9 million)

Winner Obama***** It does seem Democrats were more interested in regaining the WH than doing their job

Labor Participation rate Bush 66%, Obama 63%

Winner Bush

Discouraged workers, Bush 440,000 average, Obama 900,000 average

Winner Bush

Want me to go into foreign policy?
 
Conservative said:
The problem is you buy the leftwing spin and ignore basic civics. Want to compare the Bush 8 year results to Obama?

Let's start with GDP growth, Bush 10.2 trillion to 14.7 trillion(end of 2008)
Obama 14.7 trillion to 17.9 trillion

Winner Bush

Debt Bush 5.7 trillion to 10.6 trillion
Obama 10.6 trillion to 19.2 trillion

Winner Bush

Employment Bush 137 million to 146 Million(9 million) through 7 years but with a Democrat Controlled Congress 142 million(5 million)
Obama 142 million to 151 million (9 million)

Winner Obama***** It does seem Democrats were more interested in regaining the WH than doing their job

Labor Participation rate Bush 66%, Obama 63%

Winner Bush

Discouraged workers, Bush 440,000 average, Obama 900,000 average

Winner Bush

Want me to go into foreign policy?
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Foreign policy? No. If you did that, you would repeat slogans worthy of a Little Red Book, such as "apology tour", "weak", and "hates America."

I'd like you to go back and present the kind of analysis that an economist would present. For example, you failed to take account of the blatantly obvious fact that all the alleged growth under Bush between inauguration and 2007 was proven to be an illusion when the mortage and finance bubbles simultaneously imploded - bubbles which started their exponential inflation under Bush and that Bush failed to do anything about.

Note: I recognize the fault he shared with Dems in espousing "home ownership society," the related loosening of certain mortgage standards, and the irresponsibility of borrowers. Which is about 100 times more nuance than is found in your general declaration that Obama was a disaster.



You're just repeating slogans at me.
 
Mr Person said:
Foreign policy? No. If you did that, you would repeat slogans worthy of a Little Red Book, such as "apology tour", "weak", and "hates America."

I'd like you to go back and present the kind of analysis that an economist would present. For example, you failed to take account of the blatantly obvious fact that all the alleged growth under Bush between inauguration and 2007 was proven to be an illusion when the mortage and finance bubbles simultaneously imploded - bubbles which started their exponential inflation under Bush and that Bush failed to do anything about.

Note: I recognize the fault he shared with Dems in espousing "home ownership society," the related loosening of certain mortgage standards, and the irresponsibility of borrowers. Which is about 100 times more nuance than is found in your general declaration that Obama was a disaster.



You're just repeating slogans at me.
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Have you ever taken a civics class? Do you know what equal branches of the govt. means? You buy what you are told and ignore reality. The bubble was created in the 90's and there is a lot of people to blame but you want to hold Bush totally accountable for the 2008 results ignoring the Democrat control of Congress and the purse strings.

I repeat actual data and facts which you want to ignore. What you want to ignore is the Obama stimulus was mostly govt. spending and that affected the GDP Growth which at this point is meager at best.
 
Mr Person said:
Foreign policy? No. If you did that, you would repeat slogans worthy of a Little Red Book, such as "apology tour", "weak", and "hates America."

I'd like you to go back and present the kind of analysis that an economist would present. For example, you failed to take account of the blatantly obvious fact that all the alleged growth under Bush between inauguration and 2007 was proven to be an illusion when the mortage and finance bubbles simultaneously imploded - bubbles which started their exponential inflation under Bush and that Bush failed to do anything about.

Note: I recognize the fault he shared with Dems in espousing "home ownership society," the related loosening of certain mortgage standards, and the irresponsibility of borrowers. Which is about 100 times more nuance than is found in your general declaration that Obama was a disaster.

You're just repeating slogans at me.
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Conservative said:
Have you ever taken a civics class? Do you know what equal branches of the govt. means? You buy what you are told and ignore reality. The bubble was created in the 90's and there is a lot of people to blame but you want to hold Bush totally accountable for the 2008 results ignoring the Democrat control of Congress and the purse strings.

I repeat actual data and facts which you want to ignore. What you want to ignore is the Obama stimulus was mostly govt. spending and that affected the GDP Growth which at this point is meager at best.
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The mortgage bubble started in the 1990s. True, but misleading.

The bubble's expansion was not relevant until the 2000s, when financial deregulation and failure of oversight lead to the exponential - I used that important word, and you ignored it - expansion of the mortgage bubble and related financial derivatives bubble under Bush's watch. The bubble was irrelevant in size as of 2000. By the time it and the new finance bubble burst in 2007.

Need I post videos of Bush giving speeches on the importance of a Home Ownership Society while the bubbles were in their most violent rate of expansion?
 
Mr Person said:
The mortgage bubble started in the 1990s. True, but misleading.

The bubble's expansion was not relevant until the 2000s, when financial deregulation and failure of oversight lead to the exponential - I used that important word, and you ignored it - expansion of the mortgage bubble and related financial derivatives bubble under Bush's watch. The bubble was irrelevant in size as of 2000. By the time it and the new finance bubble burst in 2007.

Need I post videos of Bush giving speeches on the importance of a Home Ownership Society while the bubbles were in their most violent rate of expansion?
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No, you will take Bush's words out of context and ignore what Carter did with the CRA, Clinton did with Glass Steagall, plus the fact that there wouldn't have been a bubble bursting without a bubble. I am sure you will blame President Trump for the bursting of the bubble being created right now. Bush didn't make one loan and can you imagine any President not promoting home ownership?

This is nothing more than a diversion from reality. tell us exactly what Obama did to end the recession and create the job creation we have today? Tell us exactly what Hillary has done to deserve anyone's vote and what Obama has done to make the world safer?
 
Fiddytree said:
Frum stopped just short of saying Hillary Clinton is a superior Presidential candidate to Trump, but was otherwise pointing that direction.

Unfortunately, a large number of Republicans have become so corrupted, so nihilistic they can't see the wiser choice before them. For all of their bluster, even the National Review has just enough seeds of Trumpism to falter.
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Republicans are corrupted? Washington is corrupted. Hence the creation of Trump.
 
calamity said:
From Palin to Trump. It's a natural progression. Is anyone really surprised that the R's went this route?
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There have been a number of nice guys running for President as Republicans. GHWB never said a bad word about anyone, almost (well, that voodoo economic stuff). Bob Dole? Nice polite guy from Kansas. GWB was probably the meanest but Rove did most of that. McCain always tried to take the high road while people were attacking him. Romney wanted a policy debate yet the ad hominen arrows came out on him. So America created Trump. A "Republican" (well, RINO) who follows Alinsky. Bizarre, yet common, attacks on him being Hitler or authoritarian and charges that electing him will likely lead to global war are treated by him in kind.

The Media, with their co-conspirators in the Democratic Party, created Trump.
 
Eric7216 said:
There have been a number of nice guys running for President as Republicans. GHWB never said a bad word about anyone, almost (well, that voodoo economic stuff). Bob Dole? Nice polite guy from Kansas. GWB was probably the meanest but Rove did most of that. McCain always tried to take the high road while people were attacking him. Romney wanted a policy debate yet the ad hominen arrows came out on him. So America created Trump. A "Republican" (well, RINO) who follows Alinsky. Bizarre, yet common, attacks on him being Hitler or authoritarian and charges that electing him will likely lead to global war are treated by him in kind.

The Media, with their co-conspirators in the Democratic Party, created Trump.
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You're close.

The Right Wing Media, with their constant whining about the Democratic Party, created Trump.
 
Mr Person said:
The mortgage bubble started in the 1990s. True, but misleading.

The bubble's expansion was not relevant until the 2000s, when financial deregulation and failure of oversight lead to the exponential - I used that important word, and you ignored it - expansion of the mortgage bubble and related financial derivatives bubble under Bush's watch. The bubble was irrelevant in size as of 2000. By the time it and the new finance bubble burst in 2007.

Need I post videos of Bush giving speeches on the importance of a Home Ownership Society while the bubbles were in their most violent rate of expansion?
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One of the things that Republicans and Democrats generally agree upon is the benefits of easy credit and easy escape from financial insolvency. I hope that you don't try to deny the strong Democratic Party support of making loans available to the disadvantaged. The World Bank ranks the US 2nd in ease of credit and 5th in ease of insolvency, which helps put the US 7th on the list of top countries for economic freedom. If it weren't for those rankings, the US economic freedom rankings would drop significantly. We are 49th in the ease of starting a business.


Ranking of economies - Doing Business - World Bank Group

The roots of the recession go way back. The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, charged with regulating banks, is an independent agency and Clinton appointee John D Hawke had that position from 1998 through 2004. Throughout that period, the low down payment buying of properties escalated.
 
calamity said:
You're close.

The Right Wing Media, with their constant whining about the Democratic Party, created Trump.
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The right wing media generally hates Trump.
 
Is this truly representative of the compassionate progressive party?

How can anyone support this kind of activity? Always said that liberalism would die slowly and after a lot of damage but this is ridiculous and a real problem in today's society. You don't take away someone else's "free stuff." What is wrong with you people?

https://gma.yahoo.com/violence-brea...ers-hurl-080013938--abc-news-topstories.html#

Whether you like Trump or not let the guy talk and stop the violence
 
Hawkeye10 said:
That has been the story since Nov when the smartest of the brain trust finally figured out that there was a real chance that Trump will not go away on his own. It is going to be very embarrassing if a year later they turn out to be wrong. It will be worse than when they were wrong for 9 months about America being in a recession, which turned out to be the worse one since the Great Depression, which is why we call it the Great Recession. Then there is the gutting of jobs, the Middle East super colossal very expensive in treasure lives and credibility of the elite disaster. Worst of all it is the grotesque immorality of spending the kids and grandkids into crushing debt as we dont even bother to pretend to be trying to keep America in good repair.



You betcha is time for Trump, it is far past time for Trump.

I am not going to be talked out of either my rage nor the direction or fashion my rage takes.

Put Trump and thus the fear of God into the coastal elite, it might do them some good, and nothing else has worked.

"TRUMP IS NOT AMERICA, YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO VOTE FOR TRUMP AND BE CONSIDERED A GOOD PERSON!"...ya maybe, we'll see.






EDIT: "you are too crude, you cant talk" we are told.....**** that, we are Americans, and some of us still believe in freedom, and some of us still know what is important, and know how civilized people measure things. You want manners you say??? Then dont lie to people and **** them over. MKay?
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Of course, the problem with rage is that it leads to irrational behavior; like supporting a totally unqualified man for the most powerful office in the world and thinking you are making a good choice. I suggest working on your anger issues then re-thinking about this from a calmer state.
 
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