If The R Party Abandons Trump Like Goldwater What Happens?

calamity said:

I say Trump is the Republicans' biggest nightmare.

He's waking up the Right leaning populists. What this means is that the establishment Republicans, you know those Republicans that live in Trump owned high rises, will gradually need to concede power to the trailer park Republicans, people they totally despise, which is why they live in gated communities and heavily guarded high rises to begin with.

Let's just say, time to heat up the popcorn.

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I think Democrats live in high rises and gated communities as well?:mrgreen:

HowardBThiname said:

He really is an R, politicians have flip-flopped between parties before and survived it. Think Reagan, Hillary, Condi Rice, Teddy R, Elizabeth Warren, Arlen Specter...the list is long.

You're right, however, in that Trump does not have the party apparatus working for him. The GOP is considering a contested convention in fear that Trump might eke out a win.

What I'm more interested in finding out is if the Republican establishment can stop an unwanted candidate if the voters want him? How much power do they have and how much power do we want them to have? A similar situation is playing out in the DNC, where the powers that be have already decided Hillary for the win, and are doing their damnedest to shut out Bernie.

I don't particularly care for Trump but I'm more concerned in seeing the people of this nation not be played like patsies by the established political parties. If nothing else, Trump is shaking the tree and apples are rolling.



He has the data, as someone else pointed out, but he doesn't have the money. Not yet, anyway. That's why, in my opinion, he's so outrageous. The media is voluntarily giving him more coverage than money can buy. As long as he continues to make "borderline" comments and the media continue to pound him for his lack of integrity - he will get all the coverage he needs. Free.

There's an old saying -- "There's no such thing as bad publicity," and while I don't agree with that in all cases, it certainly seems to be holding true in Trump's case.

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The bolded above is also my concern. Trump may say some very unpolished things but at least he does not appear to straying into the republicant only abyss of spewing anti-SSM or anti-abortion rights babble.

What few are talking about is that while 40% of the vote wins a republicant primary it definitely will not win in a general election. That "huge" 40% share is generally among (only?) republicant leaning (anti-demorat?) folks (according to most polls).

Trump wins (among his republicant rivals) when elections, like the republicant primaries, allow proportional representation to allocate delegates (electors?) but with a winner take all delegate (elector) allocation that 40% only gets you into a runoff election with a reduced field.

Why do we use one system for the primary (practice?) election and another system for the general (real?) election? Could it be that the Trump "factor" will cause the republicants to push to switch to a winner take all primary election process (with run-offs, as required) or perhaps make the general election into a proportional representation affair, like (only?) NE does now?

Perhaps it is precisely designed to allow the people to feel that their candidate was given a fair shot in lots of states only to have the party bosses make the final call, should things get out of hand or too close to call, without an official only runoff system. The use of a convention, as the only "runoff" election, deprives the voters of a state from doing what the party (bosses?) must eventually do on a national level.

Frank Apisa said:

I seriously doubt that Trump will run as a third party (or independent) candidate. If he does not make it as the party choice, I think it will be because of how he does in the primaries...not because of any heavy-handed tactics by party bigwigs.

There was a time where I thought the Republicans were not silly enough to nominate him as their party's candidate...that their base was not so shallow as to set that scenario up.

I no long am so sure of that.

Whichever way it goes, I think Hillary Clinton will be our next president. And I think this election will go down in history as the most interesting ever.

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Hillary vs. Trump debates will draw Superbowl-like ratings numbers.

PakPuk said:

I think Democrats live in high rises and gated communities as well?:mrgreen:

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Those will be the ones voting for Hillary

Hawkeye10 said:

Point of order: I am stipulating that Trump wins the nomination, and that after the convention the party elite do nearly everything they can do to make sure he loses, that both the D and the R parties pull out all their guns in coordinated attack to stop this champion of the little people.

What happens? Does he have a chance?

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Ridiculous.

Hawkeye10 said:

Point of order: I am stipulating that Trump wins the nomination, and that after the convention the party elite do nearly everything they can do to make sure he loses, that both the D and the R parties pull out all their guns in coordinated attack to stop this champion of the little people.

What happens? Does he have a chance?

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When is the last time the D and R parties pulled out all their guns to stop any moron like Trump? As if the two parties can agree on anything! And excuse me for chuckling on Chump being a champion of the little people. What I won't do is tell you who yer main GOP threat is to trump .

PakPuk said:

I think Democrats live in high rises and gated communities as well?:mrgreen:

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Anything of yer own besides the opposite of what Calamity said, saying Democrats do too .

NIMBY said:

When is the last time the D and R parties pulled out all their guns to stop any moron like Trump? As if the two parties can agree on anything! And excuse me for chuckling on Chump being a champion of the little people. What I won't do is tell you who yer main GOP threat is to trump .

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I should warn you that I have a record of being correct an abnormally high percentage of the time.

We shall see.....

NIMBY said:

When is the last time the D and R parties pulled out all their guns to stop any moron like Trump? As if the two parties can agree on anything!

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When was the last time that a compete amateur not a general was this close to the POTUS chair?

As if the two parties can agree on anything!

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They have long agreed that it should be as impossible as possible for non D's and R's to make it onto the ballet....just for starters.

I won't do is tell you who yer main GOP threat is to trump

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To this point I have no reason to expect that you know more than I do.

Hawkeye10 said:

I should warn you that I have a record of being correct an abnormally high percentage of the time.

We shall see.....

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As have I--since the 1968 Chicago convention when I was 14-YOA

Hawkeye10 said:

When was the last time that a compete amateur not a general was this close to the POTUS chair?

They have long agreed that it should be as impossible as possible for non D's and R's to make it onto the ballet....just for starters.

To this point I have no reason to expect that you know more than I do.

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We're still a month from the first caucus--as you think Trump is that close.

NIMBY said:

We're still a month from the first caucus--as you think Trump is that close.

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Because I have been talking for several years about how pissed off a huge segment of the citizens are with Washington in particular and the elite in general, yes, I know how close Trump is. It is highly unlikely that he self destructs and it will take a concentrated effort from the elite to keep him out of the chair. If Trump and Cruz are in cahoots I am not at all sure that the elite CAN keep him from the chair.

I have to ask the same questions as Greta Van Sustern.

Will somebody name who this elite is in the a Republican Party. What is this magical power that they have. What exactly can they do to that is different that has completely failed to date to get traction for Bush, Christies, Rubio, etc...if 'they' exist.

Abandon Trump? Who exactly abandons Trump and they vote for....Hillary?

It's 2016. Candidates don't need the party deadwood. Obama didn't need it and Trump doesn't need it. Candidates interact directly with the media and party members...no middlemen or filters. The old party infrastructure is irrelevent to Trump. At a flip of a coin he could be running for the Democrat nomination.

HowardBThiname said:

He has the data, as someone else pointed out, but he doesn't have the money. Not yet, anyway.

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He is a multi-billionaire. I'm not sure how you came to conclusion that he doesn't have enough money...

Iamjesus said:

I have to ask the same questions as Greta Van Sustern.

Will somebody name who this elite is in the a Republican Party. What is this magical power that they have. .

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It is anyone who works in Congress elected or not, those who write big checks, those who run campaigns, those who trot out the R talking points over the corporate media "journalists" or otherwise, R lobbyists, and those who run the Executive branch during R administrations

Some really good reading is here
Will the Republican Party Survive the 2016 Election? - The Atlantic

But this as about more than the R party. There is a sense in america that those who have been churned out by the upper crust university, especially the Ivy's, neither understand what Americans want or care, because their actions have over a long period of time indicated that what they want is to make the rest of us do what they want us to do, and they skim wealth off of the society while adding very little of value. There is now a movement of rebellion against this class, currently solidly behind Trump because he is the only one who has ever understood or showed a willingness to fight for us. I fully expect that those little people who have traditionally been considered moderates or D's will vote for Trump in great numbers.

Those who graduated from an Ivy, especially with an advanced degree, are guilty of being the enemy until they as individuals convince us that they are not. THose with extensive government leadership experience are the enemy. By the time he is done this experience that Hillary keeps yakking about is going to be what disqualifies her from the POTUS chair, and that would have happened even if she had ever shown any competence in her work, which she has not.

Here is Rush's take on the matter:

What Really Happened in 1964 - The Rush Limbaugh Show

jmotivator said:

He is a multi-billionaire. I'm not sure how you came to conclusion that he doesn't have enough money...

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As I previously clarified - Trump has raised no campaign funds. I should have been more clear.

However, should Trump get the nod, he will start picking up donations from those who want to keep Hillary from the Oval Office.

HowardBThiname said:

As I previously clarified - Trump has raised no campaign funds. I should have been more clear.

However, should Trump get the nod, he will start picking up donations from those who want to keep Hillary from the Oval Office.

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He might, but I think he's been pretty clear that he would foot the bill himself. If he wanted bonus points he'd funnel all donations to state and local elections.

Hawkeye10 said:

It is anyone who works in Congress elected or not, those who write big checks, those who run campaigns, those who trot out the R talking points over the corporate media "journalists" or otherwise, R lobbyists, and those who run the Executive branch during R administrations

Some really good reading is here
Will the Republican Party Survive the 2016 Election? - The Atlantic

But this as about more than the R party. There is a sense in america that those who have been churned out by the upper crust university, especially the Ivy's, neither understand what Americans want or care, because their actions have over a long period of time indicated that what they want is to make the rest of us do what they want us to do, and they skim wealth off of the society while adding very little of value. There is now a movement of rebellion against this class, currently solidly behind Trump because he is the only one who has ever understood or showed a willingness to fight for us. I fully expect that those little people who have traditionally been considered moderates or D's will vote for Trump in great numbers.

Those who graduated from an Ivy, especially with an advanced degree, are guilty of being the enemy until they as individuals convince us that they are not. THose with extensive government leadership experience are the enemy. By the time he is done this experience that Hillary keeps yakking about is going to be what disqualifies her from the POTUS chair, and that would have happened even if she had ever shown any competence in her work, which she has not.

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Still, no meat on the bone. There is NO 'they' who are all cowering at the thought of a Trump nomination. Some media names and old politicians have almost no influence. Bush at 4% in the polls.

The Emporer of a the Establishment has no clothes...no power to do anything to negate what has happened to date. People fall into a pattern of believing that there is some powerful minds controlling events behind the curtain. There isn't.

Iamjesus said:

Still, no meat on the bone. There is NO 'they' who are all cowering at the thought of a Trump nomination. Some media names and old politicians have almost no influence. Bush at 4% in the polls.

The Emporer of a the Establishment has no clothes...no power to do anything to negate what has happened to date. People fall into a pattern of believing that there is some powerful minds controlling events behind the curtain. There isn't.

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If the American people say that we want new people running things because the old people have failed, and we say that we want new ideas, then that is what we are going to demand and that is what we are going to get. Calling us stupid for wanting what we want only motivates us more.

Did you read the piece in the Atlantic?

jmotivator said:

He might, but I think he's been pretty clear that he would foot the bill himself. .

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Maybe he is lying. politicians have been known to do that ya know.....

The party already seems to be trying to dump Trump and have clearly not succeeded yet... The party's base has way too many uneducated bigots...

Hawkeye10 said:

Point of order: I am stipulating that Trump wins the nomination, and that after the convention the party elite do nearly everything they can do to make sure he loses, that both the D and the R parties pull out all their guns in coordinated attack to stop this champion of the little people.

What happens? Does he have a chance?

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Champion of the little people, my ass!! Trump is for Donald Trump, and nobody else.

if anyone can buy its an election its Trump

he has a history of politicians in his pocket

same old political hack as the rest

Trump supporters cannot see thru his BS ego trip he is no different than the rest so stop pretending

How true

Sheep to the voting booth