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Dow over 17,000. thank you again President Obama. [W:1017, 2344]

jbander said:
There is only one other time that we can compare the Bush/regressive almost total destruction of our economy and country, The depression and we are recovering faster then the depression. When You regressives destroy economies , you destroy massively. Obama's Dow up 125% in 7 years, The move upward started literally the day he came into office. , it's a old market it will correct , The massive debt totally belonged to you regressives, all of it accrued during regressive presidencies all the time having the veto. till Obama came into office, after your policies and president destroyed the economy. You offer nothing but the destruction of this country and ugliness that hasn't been seen in my lifetime , from your bigotry to to the long list of things you blame/hate for our problems. The ultimate is your party makes everyone except the top few poorer and then you attack the poor for being poor. Your comment says nothing other then the twisted logic that goes along with your sick party.
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So you believe Bush was a king and acted alone without the Democrat controlled Congress? Have you taken basic civics? Why is it you and others are so easily swayed by leftwing rhetoric that you don't do any basic research to verify what you are told? How did this recession hurt you and your family?

As I have stated over and over again, we have an incredible private sector economy that is quite resilient but the results do not show the severity of the recession but rather the poor leadership and economic policies implemented. We have a President that had zero executive or private sector experience being in charge of a private sector economy and what did he do, bail out union supporters and focus on transforming America into a European socialist economy.

I guess I will never understand people like you who have no problem with a 19 trillion dollar debt, no problem with the Federal Govt. usurping state responsibilities, and no problem throwing more money at the problem without accountability of the money spent

I offer a positive pro growth attitude and economic policy, something you don't understand. you see, I understand that you don't tax rich people in an attempt to make poor people richer but rather you tax rich people to gain more power and to create more dependence. I also understand that no rich person prevented me from becoming rich but socialist economic policies do exactly that, hurting incentive and economic growth.
 
Fenton said:
Fannie Maes mortgage portfolio plus or minus the HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars in worthless " No Doc Loan " debt they ommited from their 2004-2008 SEC quarterly filings ??

Fannie Mae also ommited over a hundred Billion dollars in worthless CountryWide debt too.
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oh fenton, its just sad to see you flail at the facts. Lets pretend what you posted is true, explain how you think that changes the documented fact that Fannie Mae's loan performance fell off a cliff in 2005. see the problem with your flailing. It's irrelevant to what you're flailing at. So just to reiterate, Fannie mae's mortgage portfolio data, Bush's PWG, EPD data for subprime and the home price data in the 4 bubble states back the GAO link that clearly states

“Subprime loans originated in late 2005 and 2006 are playing a major role in recent defaults and foreclosures".

Now that I've shown that your blurts are irrelevant, lets find out if they are even true, please back up your irrelevant blurt about "HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars in worthless debt". any credible link will do because I know from experience you tend to post things because you wish it was true. We know you posted an irrelevant blurt. I'm curious if its really another irrelevant blurt of questionable veracity. they are your specialty.
 
Vern said:
oh fenton, its just sad to see you flail at the facts. Lets pretend what you posted is true, explain how you think that changes the documented fact that Fannie Mae's loan performance fell off a cliff in 2005. see the problem with your flailing. It's irrelevant to what you're flailing at. So just to reiterate, Fannie mae's mortgage portfolio data, Bush's PWG, EPD data for subprime and the home price data in the 4 bubble states back the GAO link that clearly states

“Subprime loans originated in late 2005 and 2006 are playing a major role in recent defaults and foreclosures".

Now that I've shown that your blurts are irrelevant, lets find out if they are even true, please back up your irrelevant blurt about "HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of dollars in worthless debt". any credible link will do because I know from experience you tend to post things because you wish it was true. We know you posted an irrelevant blurt. I'm curious if its really another irrelevant blurt of questionable veracity. they are your specialty.
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Yes, that is true, Vern, finally a comment that is accurate now tell me the context and where does that mean that those loans created the bubble? The subprime loans originated in 2005-06 played a major role in the RECENT Default, nothing about these loans CREATING the bubble

“Subprime loans originated in late 2005 and 2006 are playing a major role in recent defaults and foreclosures".
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Conservative said:
Yes, that is true, Vern, finally a comment that is accurate now tell me the context and where does that mean that those loans created the bubble? The subprime loans originated in 2005-06 played a major role in the RECENT Default, nothing about these loans CREATING the bubble
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Subprime_mortgage_originations,_1996-2008.GIF
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Subprime_mortgage_originations,_1996-2008.GIF
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What you are showing are the defaults not when the bubble was created. Do you even understand what the bubble was? How much is it going to take to prove to you that the bubble was more than just the sub prime loans and it wasn't created in 2004-2007 but started a long time ago, back in the 90's. Ever hear of Franklin Raines and Jaime Gorelick? Who where they and what role did they play if any?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
No, you can't even understand a graph after it has posted for you multiple times. It shows both the % share and nominal value of subprime.
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You don't get it and never will, the sub prime defaults did NOT cause the bubble they were part of the crisis but didn't create it. The financial crisis was create by much more than the simple defaults that you post. Pretty chart but like all liberals it doesn't show what you want it to show
 
Conservative said:
You don't get it
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This is ironic coming from a guy who just thought a graph of subprime share represents defaults. When you screw up this badly, can't admit the error....and then have the gall to claim I don't get something, it causes one to wonder where do you begin to get anything.
 
the sub prime defaults did NOT cause the bubble
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This is your continuing Rubiotron moment, you keep repeating this nonsense right after you ask for evidence of the subrime lending causing the PRICE bubble. Your confusion....and story.....changes from post to post, it is like your text software is infected. FFS, do a scan and straighten it out....or at least reboot.

Good grief, this is just nuts.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
This is your continuing Rubiotron moment, you keep repeating this nonsense right after you ask for evidence of the subrime lending causing the PRICE bubble. Your confusion....and story.....changes from post to post, it is like your text software is infected. FFS, do a scan and straighten it out....or at least reboot.

Good grief, this is just nuts.
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Here is a very good study of the crisis and what caused it, read it and learn something

https://business.cch.com/images/banner/subprime.pdf
 
Conservative said:
Here is a very good study of the crisis and what caused it, read it and learn something

https://business.cch.com/images/banner/subprime.pdf
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You already posted this for me, and I previously pointed out that the author not only notes that subrime was a major factor in the rise in housing prices (THE BUBBLE), was a major factor in the collapse of prices, and was the major factor in the collapse of the credit markets.

But you have forgotten all of this, and you will again forget this, and you will argue it tomorrow....and each time you will get more things wrong.....until someone comes along and wheels you away from the screen.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
You already posted this for me, and I previously pointed out that the author not only notes that subrime was a major factor in the rise in housing prices (THE BUBBLE), was a major factor in the collapse of prices, and was the major factor in the collapse of the credit markets.

But you have forgotten all of this, and you will again forget this, and you will argue it tomorrow....and each time you will get more things wrong.....until someone comes along and wheels you away from the screen.
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I'm surprised the guy hasn't been bared from this place. But then again he does make for some good laughs.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
You already posted this for me, and I previously pointed out that the author not only notes that subrime was a major factor in the rise in housing prices (THE BUBBLE), was a major factor in the collapse of prices, and was the major factor in the collapse of the credit markets.

But you have forgotten all of this, and you will again forget this, and you will argue it tomorrow....and each time you will get more things wrong.....until someone comes along and wheels you away from the screen.
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You seem to have a very short and selective memory that needs repeating. We have already agreed that Bush alone didn't cause the crisis yet you keep beating that dead horse of defaults from 2004-2007 totally ignoring all the other areas that led tot he housing and financial crisis including the beginning of the sub prime loans which wasn't under Bush. There was a commercial segment of the problem as well.
 
Conservative said:
You seem to have a very short and selective memory that needs repeating. We have already agreed that Bush alone didn't cause the crisis
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We are not debating who, we are debating what.
yet you keep beating that dead horse of defaults from 2004-2007
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No, this is again you forgetting what you were arguing, you were arguing that SP did not cause the housing price bubble, but then you post AGAIN a paper that repeats the fact that SP was a "major factor" in causing the HOUSING PRICE BUBBLE.
totally ignoring all the other areas that led tot he housing and financial crisis including the beginning of the sub prime loans which wasn't under Bush.
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I have already posted the housing price index for the time period in question, you already know when the prices began to exceed the 89 bubble, it was after 2000, and the SP loans that were the "major factor" in the PRICE BUBBLE were originated after 2002.
There was a commercial segment of the problem as well.
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Well, there is another can of beans for you to screw up. But if I were you, I would stay away from commercial, since they had nothing to do with the CRA myth, were a world-wide phenom, part and parcel of the banks using real estate markets as a casino.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
We are not debating who, we are debating what. No, this is again you forgetting what you were arguing, you were arguing that SP did not cause the housing price bubble, but then you post AGAIN a paper that repeats the fact that SP was a "major factor" in causing the HOUSING PRICE BUBBLE.I have already posted the housing price index for the time period in question, you already know when the prices began to exceed the 89 bubble, it was after 2000, and the SP loans that were the "major factor" in the PRICE BUBBLE were originated after 2002. Well, there is another can of beans for you to screw up. But if I were you, I would stay away from commercial, since they had nothing to do with the CRA myth, were a world-wide phenom, part and parcel of the banks using real estate markets as a casino.
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Oh, now i get it, you don't understand creating vs being a factor in. Check with the local schools to help you. I have stated that the sub prime defaults were a factor but as has been posted there are many factors that led to the bubble other than the sub prime loans for real estate.

Obviously you aren't me for if you were you wouldn't be supporting the liberal talking points and liberalism in general.
 
Conservative said:
I have stated that the sub prime defaults were a factor ...... that led to the bubble
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You once again bring up this software glitch of "defaults led to the bubble", it is time once again for a reboot!
 
Gimmesometruth said:
You once again bring up this software glitch of "defaults led to the bubble", it is time once again for a reboot!
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There definitely is a time for booting and I would like to do it to a number of liberals on this thread. Reality seems to be a problem for you as well as context and semantics. Being the liberal that you are you have to get the last word on the subject even if you don't know that we agree that Bush was at fault along with many other players here. You don't seem to understand what being a factor means vs. causing but then again the liberal propaganda machine just won't let you be honest even with yourself.
 
Moderator's Warning:
The personal snipes and the partisan baiting stops now or you will be booted from the thread.
 
Conservative said:
So you believe Bush was a king and acted alone without the Democrat controlled Congress? Have you taken basic civics? Why is it you and others are so easily swayed by leftwing rhetoric that you don't do any basic research to verify what you are told? How did this recession hurt you and your family?

As I have stated over and over again, we have an incredible private sector economy that is quite resilient but the results do not show the severity of the recession but rather the poor leadership and economic policies implemented. We have a President that had zero executive or private sector experience being in charge of a private sector economy and what did he do, bail out union supporters and focus on transforming America into a European socialist economy.

I guess I will never understand people like you who have no problem with a 19 trillion dollar debt, no problem with the Federal Govt. usurping state responsibilities, and no problem throwing more money at the problem without accountability of the money spent

I offer a positive pro growth attitude and economic policy, something you don't understand. you see, I understand that you don't tax rich people in an attempt to make poor people richer but rather you tax rich people to gain more power and to create more dependence. I also understand that no rich person prevented me from becoming rich but socialist economic policies do exactly that, hurting incentive and economic growth.
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A lecture on economics from the party that destroyed our economy and almost destroyed this country, ya you have a better way for sure, Funny. You said one thing that is true, the right wants more states rights so the bastions of conservatism can stop taking care of the needy because they are all bums, go back to slavery because it is easy money, take money away from all programs except handouts to big business and those savings give to the only people who count in the regressive party the 1%. Education , hell it cost to much, let the church educate the population at bible study classes. Make a law that you can only elect evangelicals in all state positions. Ya we know exactly why the right would like way more state power.
 
jbander said:
A lecture on economics from the party that destroyed our economy and almost destroyed this country, ya you have a better way for sure, Funny. You said one thing that is true, the right wants more states rights so the bastions of conservatism can stop taking care of the needy because they are all bums, go back to slavery because it is easy money, take money away from all programs except handouts to big business and those savings give to the only people who count in the regressive party the 1%. Education , hell it cost to much, let the church educate the population at bible study classes. Make a law that you can only elect evangelicals in all state positions. Ya we know exactly why the right would like way more state power.
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You use the term destroyed our economy right out of the liberal play book. How did the destroyed economy affect you and your family as it didn't affect me or millions of others at all.

What you seem to ignore is the damage the next president is going to have to clean up because of liberalism. Your hatred for religion and states' rights is noted, misguided but noted. It really is a shame that Freedom OF Religion now means Freedom FROM religion in the liberal world. You need a new tactic to divert from the Obama failures and your BDS is on full display as is your inability to understand economics and civics.
 
Conservative said:
You use the term destroyed our economy right out of the liberal play book. How did the destroyed economy affect you and your family as it didn't affect me or millions of others at all.

What you seem to ignore is the damage the next president is going to have to clean up because of liberalism. Your hatred for religion and states' rights is noted, misguided but noted. It really is a shame that Freedom OF Religion now means Freedom FROM religion in the liberal world. You need a new tactic to divert from the Obama failures and your BDS is on full display as is your inability to understand economics and civics.
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Where does hate take you , hating Obama is one of the places , who has a long list of accomplishment but he is black, so in your mind everything he does is bad , talking about indoctrination. You better believe it means freedom from religion. I always get a kick out of regressives they want the church to have more control in government but how blind are they , they think it will be the evangelicals that have that control, which of course is stupid. It would be the Religions that had the biggest numbers, First Catholics then Baptist who they hate and at the end of the line , way way down will be the goofy evangelicals. Bush left office with the economy all but destroyed and Obama has fixed it to this point, we are back on our feet and you say the Democrats are the cause of all the problem, Goofy world of the right.
 
jbander said:
Where does hate take you , hating Obama is one of the places , who has a long list of accomplishment but he is black, so in your mind everything he does is bad , talking about indoctrination. You better believe it means freedom from religion. I always get a kick out of regressives they want the church to have more control in government but how blind are they , they think it will be the evangelicals that have that control, which of course is stupid. It would be the Religions that had the biggest numbers, First Catholics then Baptist who they hate and at the end of the line , way way down will be the goofy evangelicals. Bush left office with the economy all but destroyed and Obama has fixed it to this point, we are back on our feet and you say the Democrats are the cause of all the problem, Goofy world of the right.
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I don't hate Obama, he seems like a typical liberal with no executive or leadership skills. Would love to have a beer with him but he is incompetent. Not sure where those accomplishments are but I am sure social engineering would be one of them because there certainly aren't any positive economic ones.

Not sure what religion has done to you because there is where I see hatred i you. Seek some help.

You claim the economy was destroyed when Bush left office and yet you haven't said how it affected you and your family so what you are doing is parroting liberal talking points. What fixed the economy was TARP or better yet kicked the can down the road as we continue to have that same problem. Nothing Obama did fixed anything other than shore up his liberal base. The Economic numbers sure don't indicate that he fixed the economy but guess you and other supporters simply have low expectations.
 
Conservative said:
You claim the economy was destroyed when Bush left office
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Con, this is just another example of why you shouldn't be allowed to post here. Bush leaving the economy in shambles is not a claim. Its just a fact.

What fixed the economy was TARP or better yet kicked the can down the road as we continue to have that same problem. Nothing Obama did fixed anything other than shore up his liberal base. The Economic numbers sure don't indicate that he fixed the economy but guess you and other supporters simply have low expectations.
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er uh Con, there is nothing in the BLS numbers showing TARP doing anything for the economy. BLS is not only your standard for determining is something worked, its your only standard.

BLS TOTAL EMPLOYMENT.jpg

And again, if you are so determined to credit TARP then thank the democrats. The republicans did that "avoid responsibility unfit to govern" thing and voted against TARP. Again, you can actually see the stimulus kicking in.
 
Vern said:
Con, this is just another example of why you shouldn't be allowed to post here. Bush leaving the economy in shambles is not a claim. Its just a fact.



er uh Con, there is nothing in the BLS numbers showing TARP doing anything for the economy. BLS is not only your standard for determining is something worked, its your only standard.

View attachment 67196915

And again, if you are so determined to credit TARP then thank the democrats. The republicans did that "avoid responsibility unfit to govern" thing and voted against TARP. Again, you can actually see the stimulus kicking in.
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Pretty chart, Vern, learn how to read it. Stimulus signed February 17, 2009, when did the employment exceed 2008 and pre recession numbers? You really are a tool of the left and not a very good one.

By the way, Vern, "your" President's Administration talked about the goals of the stimulus to create shovel ready jobs. Seems to me that BLS would be the site to measure those shovel ready jobs and it did. There weren't any created as indicated by employment going form 142 million to 139 million
 
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