• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

GOP bill designed to keep secret the IDs of campaign donors

Again these groups are supporting candidates who SHARE their views.Its not like big oil hands money to a candidate whose views contradict their own and that candidate voted the way big oil wanted.
I thought Obama was a "big gov socialist" why would the banks donate to him? I thought Obama was all about the "green energy" why would big oil donate to him? I thought Obama was all about more regulation why would they donate to the dems? C'mon get with the program... Your point was proven wrong.



Why whine about how much someone donates to a group that can not donate to a candidate?
Because they have direct influence on the election... Just cuz that cant "directly" support a candidate it does not mean they dont support one candidate. Its pretty clear when a Super PAC runs an add against someone who they are in favor of....
 
I disagree. If you're influencing an election which is a public held event, you have the right to know who is influencing the publicly held event.

You live in La-La-Land, too.

“I got about two dozen e-mails and hate phone calls,” said Mr. LiMandri, who lives in San Diego. “They were calling me Nazi, homophobe, bigot. I tried to engage people once or twice - I said that Proposition 8 had nothing to do with being bigoted, it was about preserving marriage - but people don’t want to engage on the issue.”

Pestered Prop 8 donors file suit - Washington Times

What warped world do you live in where you think this **** is ok?
 
You live in La-La-Land, too.
So you think anyone should be able to influence in public events in complete secret?


What warped world do you live in where you think this **** is ok?

There is a example and he has every right for a lawsuit.
 
So you think anyone should be able to influence in public events in complete secret?

I believe that political donors, should be able to exercise their rights, free from harassment.




There is a example and he has every right for a lawsuit.

It wouldn't have happened, if his rights were protected.
 
I believe that political donors, should be able to exercise their rights, free from harassment.
Im guessing very very few donors get "harassed" like the one and only example you provided.
But my question is a simple yes or no answer.







It wouldn't have happened, if his rights were protected.
He's rights were excercised to donate to a campaign. And if you directly donate to a campaign that must be made public.
 
No, you don't fear it. And that's why you're a detriment to the future of this country. You don't see the fundamental difference between the "governments" of the dark ages that were nothing but unbridled private power, and a government that is actually beholden to its people.
Much of the government you cherish you have no say in whatsoever. In most cases, your fate is in the hands of unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats whom you just assume have your interests in mind. They do not.

Power is power.
Not true at all. There is a tremendous difference between political power and economic power. You seem to have an irrational fear of people with more economic power than you but are unbelievably naïve when it comes to your willingness to surrender political powers to an unaccountable bureaucracy
Why do you want it in the hands in unaccountable, unelected people whose motivation is purely self-interest instead of people who are accountable to the populace of the nation?
What are you talking about? Who the hell in the government is ever held accountable for anything?
I don't get the pathological hero worship of aristocrats. It makes no sense to me and is completely antithetical to the principles of this country.
Sorry, do have some evidence that such "hero worship" exists? Or have you just run out of argument? And what are "the principles of this country" to which you refer?
Is it the delusion that you'll be one someday? Do you actually think that people who are born into wealthy families are better than you? Do you just really hate people who are poorer than you?
Where do you get this stuff? These questions are nothing but straw men. Why is it so difficult for you just to stick to what is being said rather than resort to such nonsense?

I literally don't know how to answer you because your mindset is so alien to me that it's making my head spin.
It is your caricature of my mindset that is alien to you. But it cant be that alien since it was you who invented it.

Let's talk about education, for example. Shouldn't everyone be educated? Shouldn't everyone have a great education? Isn't that more important than education being profitable to people owning schools? Isn't an educated populace one that will make this country greater? Either the priority is profit (which our system of private enterprise necessitates that it would be), or the priority is to educate everyone. You only get one top priority.
There is no reason education cannot be accomplished via the profit motive. But if you want to argue that poor neighborhoods would get substandard education under such a system, perhaps you might look around at the current standard of education your altruistic method is offering the poor.

If the system is accountable to the people, then their priority is enacted. The people's priority is an educated and prosperous nation. If the system is unaccountable, then the priority of the few powerful people is enacted. Which one do you want to happen?
If public education is your example of an accountable, effective system then you really have no leg to stand on. But if you really feel your voice can hack its way through the layers of educational bureaucracy, your are crazy.

But I think you have answered my initial question and that answer seem to be an unequivocal 'yes.' So thanks for that. Like I said, I hadn't really considered the thought behind the liberal love of government, but at least it is now somewhat more understandable to me. Irrational, but understandable.
 
There is a tremendous difference between political power and economic power.

They are exactly the same thing and until you wrap your mind around that, you will continue to make a lot of mistakes. Including your strange fear of clerks. Tell me, what's the fundamental difference between a government bureaucrat and a corporate middle manager?
 
Donating to a political candidate is not a government function.So this comparison is idiotic.

Why are you afraid to answer the question? This seems to be a far right wing meme.... sure we want transparency but we have to protect the very rich against..... against ...... against what exactly? Criticism? Scorn? Ridicule. Being the butt of jokes from comedians and SNL?

What is it exactly you are trying to protect the rich from anyways?
 
I don't care who it is, every American citizen has the right to participate in the Democratic process, free from harassment by the opposition.

Free from harassment? absolutely.. free from responsibility? No.

Two different things.
 
Free from harassment? absolutely.. free from responsibility? No.

Two different things.

You're masquerading responsibility as harassment.

Are you willing to hold voters responsible for a cooked politician, because they voted him into office?
 
Again people donate to candidates who share their beliefs. This is why pro-life groups, pro-2nd amendment groups, and pro-traditional marriage groups do not donate to Nancy Pelosi because they know that she will oppose any pro-life legislation regardless if they donate a dollar or a millions dollars.



Super PACs can not donate to candidates.

People donate to get political power. Especially the wealthy. I and my fellow business men give to both sides of the aisle because bottom line is that you need things to get done for you. If you do business in a democrat controlled state.. then you are donating to some democrats.. no matter how republican your beliefs are.. because otherwise you are going to be left out in the cold. In fact in a campaign, you might be giving to BOTH candidates simply to make sure you have position at the table.

That's the facts of life.
 
Votes influence elections, too. You want to see that?





Obviously, as I've shown, you're wrong.

Yes.. to a degree we do need to see votes. We need to see that they are from folks that are eligible to vote and are not votes from the grave.
 
No you don't.

Oh yes I do. Its fundamental to freedom..

Tell me, how would you discover corruption in government.. if their was no record of who was giving what to whom?

Or do you contend that corruption is fine?
 
This magical influence you claim they buy is almost nonexistent.





Not if your campaign has millions or dollars.

honestly.. that is a very foolish statement that influence is not bought..:doh
 
Oh yes I do. Its fundamental to freedom..

Tell me, how would you discover corruption in government.. if their was no record of who was giving what to whom?

Or do you contend that corruption is fine?

Identifying political donors won't reveal government corruption.
 
Yes.. to a degree we do need to see votes. We need to see that they are from folks that are eligible to vote and are not votes from the grave.

Well, at least you're consistant. :roll:
 
Why are you afraid to answer the question? This seems to be a far right wing meme.... sure we want transparency but we have to protect the very rich against..... against ...... against what exactly? Criticism? Scorn? Ridicule. Being the butt of jokes from comedians and SNL?

Voter/donor transparency and government transparency are separate issues.So it is idiotic to compare them.

What is it exactly you are trying to protect the rich from anyways?

I am not envious of rich people like you and other left wingers are.
 
They are exactly the same thing and until you wrap your mind around that, you will continue to make a lot of mistakes. Including your strange fear of clerks. Tell me, what's the fundamental difference between a government bureaucrat and a corporate middle manager?
They are not the same thing at all. Political power comes with a monopoly on the use of physical force, has the power of law behind it, and is enforced at the point of a gun. Economic power does not. It is not humanly possible for you not to know that. Yet here we are.
 
honestly.. that is a very foolish statement that influence is not bought..:doh

People donate and vote for candidates whose views match theirs. Because it does no good to donate money to a candidate whose views contradict yours. This is why the NRA and GOA will never donate to Nancy Pelosi or Dianne Feinstein. If these politicians were voting, or writing bills or amendments to those bills that contradicted their beliefs after receiving some campaign donations then you can say yes those politicians were bought off or influenced.
 
Voter/donor transparency and government transparency are separate issues.So it is idiotic to compare them.



I am not envious of rich people like you and other left wingers are.

So people being able to buy a public official is not a governmental issue? WOW!!!!!!

I read your attack on me but I still did not see an answer to my question: This seems to be a far right wing meme.... sure we want transparency but we have to protect the very rich against..... against ...... against what exactly? Criticism? Scorn? Ridicule. Being the butt of jokes from comedians and SNL? What is it you are trying to protect the rich from?
 
[/FONT][/COLOR]


Video @: GOP bill designed to keep secret the IDs of campaign donors - YouTube

Yup... Remember that thing about transparency? Yea the GOP hates that, they are not much into that. They want to hide everyone contributing to their campaigns.. So I have to ask "what are they hiding"? This is clear. Its not about "free speech", its about channeling secret money.
Van Hollen is a ****ing piece of **** scumbag.

The only people who take him seriously are other scumbags and idiots.

The GOP promotes transparency in government and individual privacy rights.
 
Identifying political donors won't reveal government corruption.

Without it.. you cannot reveal corruption.

How else do you plan on knowing?

Please answer
 
Well, at least you're consistant. :roll:

Absolutely. As a conservative, I understand the importance of keeping our political system free from corruption.
 
People donate and vote for candidates whose views match theirs. Because it does no good to donate money to a candidate whose views contradict yours. This is why the NRA and GOA will never donate to Nancy Pelosi or Dianne Feinstein. If these politicians were voting, or writing bills or amendments to those bills that contradicted their beliefs after receiving some campaign donations then you can say yes those politicians were bought off or influenced.

You are living in fantasy land

People donate. especially business people donate to have political influence. Even the NRA gives to candidates whose views contradict theirs.. The NRA has given to candidates who are democrats..and others that don't support all their views. Heck, the NRA backed Mcain in the Obama Mccain election. Prior to that.. the NRA and Mccain had had vehement disagreements over closing the "gun show loophole".

And why did they back Mccain when his views contradicted theirs? Because the NRA had two choices.. Mccain who was bad on guns and Obama who was bad on guns. Well, Mccain needed the money, and was giving the money to him bought more influence that it would giving it to Obama..
 
You are living in fantasy land

People donate. especially business people donate to have political influence. Even the NRA gives to candidates whose views contradict theirs.. The NRA has given to candidates who are democrats..and others that don't support all their views. Heck, the NRA backed Mcain in the Obama Mccain election. Prior to that.. the NRA and Mccain had had vehement disagreements over closing the "gun show loophole".

And why did they back Mccain when his views contradicted theirs? Because the NRA had two choices.. Mccain who was bad on guns and Obama who was bad on guns. Well, Mccain needed the money, and was giving the money to him bought more influence that it would giving it to Obama..
It could be due to the fact that McCain is seen as the lesser of two evils.McCain does score a C+ with the NRA and F- with the GOA.The NRA has also been known to cave into anti-2nd amendment scum,which is why the GOA was formed.
Gun Owners of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Back
Top Bottom