• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Be rooted in reality

Dittohead not!

Dittohead not!

master political analyst
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
52,009
Reaction score
33,944
Location
The Golden State
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Be rooted in reality': Barack Obama urges moderation to 2020 Democratic presidential contenders


Former President Barack Obama, speaking before a crowd of Democratic donors in Washington, D.C., urged caution and moderation to the current field of Democratic presidential contenders.
"The average American doesn’t think we have to completely tear down the system and remake it. And I think it’s important for us not to lose sight of that," Obama said to the audience, the Associated Press reported.
Click to expand...




Good advice. Being rooted in reality should delineate an obvious difference between the Democratic nominee (whoever that turns out to be) and Trump.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
A rather odd thing for someone who promised the "fundamental transformation of America" to be saying.
Click to expand...

Not when you consider how he actually behaved in office.
 
Mr Person said:
Not when you consider how he actually behaved in office.
Click to expand...

True, yet many politicians have bigger barks than bites. It easier to promise big than to get congress critters to go along with you.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
A rather odd thing for someone who promised the "fundamental transformation of America" to be saying.
Click to expand...

that was the Obama before entering the white house

we are now hearing from the post white house Obama, sharing some of the wisdom he acquired
 
justabubba said:
that was the Obama before entering the white house

we are now hearing from the post white house Obama, sharing some of the wisdom he acquired
Click to expand...

I think that the thought of Warren getting the DNC POTUS nomination scares him.
 
i support a win first strategy.
 
justabubba said:
that was the Obama before entering the white house

we are now hearing from the post white house Obama, sharing some of the wisdom he acquired
Click to expand...

Right, like not even trying to pressure or persuade those who are obstacles to your policies: Lieberman: Obama Never Pressed Me On Public Option | HuffPost Canada

Obama is definitely not a person to listen to in this regard: Obama the Conservative | Tracking Obama's abandoning of the progressive agenda, and the disconnect between his words and deeds.

Starting out asking for half a loaf and getting crumbs is what contributed to the loss of turnout and the downturn of Dem electoral fortunes in 2010 and onward, along with a broader disappointment of his progressive, change oriented platform and campaigning that cynically exploited the zeitgeist of 2008. Again, it bears repeating that Obama's pivot away from his platform cost him.
 
Surrealistik said:
Right, like not even trying to pressure or persuade those who are obstacles to your policies: Lieberman: Obama Never Pressed Me On Public Option | HuffPost Canada

Obama is definitely not a person to listen to in this regard: Obama the Conservative | Tracking Obama's abandoning of the progressive agenda, and the disconnect between his words and deeds.

Starting out asking for half a loaf and getting crumbs is what contributed to the loss of turnout and the downturn of Dem electoral fortunes in 2010 and onward, along with a broader disappointment of his progressive, change oriented platform and campaigning that cynically exploited the zeitgeist of 2008. Again, it bears repeating that Obama's pivot away from his platform cost him.
Click to expand...

Cost him what?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Be rooted in reality': Barack Obama urges moderation to 2020 Democratic presidential contenders







Good advice. Being rooted in reality should delineate an obvious difference between the Democratic nominee (whoever that turns out to be) and Trump.
Click to expand...

Yea whenever I suggest common sense I get called a trumpster or some other such nonsense. It is why Booker is the only dem I could support. He is big on evidence-based solutions over ideology. It is also why he is going to be blown out of the water. He dared support magnet schools over paying teachers more money for worsening performance.
 
Rexedgar said:
Cost him what?
Click to expand...

Turn out and enthusiasm in 2010 onward, which meant that Dems lost their monopoly over power when they got routed in the midterms, thereby making the enactment of Dem legislation essentially impossible. Further, the 2012 election ended up far closer than it should have been, with votation metrics for Obama then being paltry compared to those in 2008.

Dems have been basically routed since 2010 onwards with the exception of Obama's presidency until the mid terms that literally just happened.
 
Surrealistik said:
Turn out and enthusiasm in 2010 onward, which meant that Dems lost their monopoly over power when they got routed in the midterms, thereby making the enactment of Dem legislation essentially impossible. Further, the 2012 election ended up far closer than it should have been, with votation metrics for Obama then being paltry compared to those in 2008.

Dems have been basically routed since 2010 onwards with the exception of Obama's presidency until the mid terms that literally just happened.
Click to expand...



Still don’t see a personal “cost.” I’m of the opinion that enthusiasm will see a significant upgrade .......
 
ttwtt78640 said:
A rather odd thing for someone who promised the "fundamental transformation of America" to be saying.
Click to expand...

not when you consider what he actually meant and not what Rush and Sean said he meant.
 
Rexedgar said:
Still don’t see a personal “cost.” I’m of the opinion that enthusiasm will see a significant upgrade .......
Click to expand...

You mean, being cockblocked for the better part of 6 years as Republicans essentially kiboshed any substantive Dem priorities and legislation, thereby ensuring the mediocrity of his presidency, isn't a personal cost?
 
Surrealistik said:
You mean, being cockblocked for the better part of 6 years as Republicans essentially kiboshed any substantive Dem priorities and legislation, thereby ensuring the mediocrity of his presidency, isn't a personal cost?
Click to expand...

Obama is on a beach somewhere sipping hi-grade beverages. I could stand some of that mediocrity right about now. However this turns out, DJT will always have either impeachment or an asterisk next to his name. Not that I think it will bother him; can’t shame the shameless.

Cockblocked for six years? Yeah that was Mitch’s mission; only problem Mitch wasn’t able to limit BO to only one term. Speaks to a larger problem that the US faces. I believe Trump is just a symptom of a much larger disease.
 
Rexedgar said:
Obama is on a beach somewhere sipping hi-grade beverages. I could stand some of that mediocrity right about now. However this turns out, DJT will always have either impeachment or an asterisk next to his name. Not that I think it will bother him; can’t shame the shameless.

Cockblocked for six years? Yeah that was Mitch’s mission; only problem Mitch wasn’t able to limit BO to only one term. Speaks to a larger problem that the US faces. I believe Trump is just a symptom of a much larger disease.
Click to expand...

Mitch found his way into power in large part because Obama reneged on the vision he and the Democrats at the time were elected to enact; it was a colossal unforced error. Obama's advice is perhaps good if you want to change much of nothing and preside over a caretaker presidency as he did that will probably result in your party's gradual or abrupt decline.

I agree that Trump is a symptom of a much larger disease: a deep, fundamental, and supremely justified frustration with politicos that virtually always favour the wealthy, powerful and well-connected above all others, who never actually enact the change and policies they promised, and were mandated to bring, and who largely ignore the interests of typical Americans; there are few more prolific and apt poster boys of this than Obama. Meanwhile, Trump won the Blue Wall/rust belt off the back of an economic populist message, despite the fact that he never intended to follow through on it, while Clinton largely twiddled her thumbs by contrast. Now, as Trump is revealed to be the fraud he is, we have a partial reversal in the 2018 mid terms as he has become one of the most unpopular presidents of all time. The lesson is obvious.
 
Surrealistik said:
Mitch found his way into power in large part because Obama reneged on the vision he and the Democrats at the time were elected to enact; it was a colossal unforced error. Obama's advice is perhaps good if you want to change much of nothing and preside over a caretaker presidency as he did that will probably result in your party's gradual or abrupt decline.

I agree that Trump is a symptom of a much larger disease: a deep, fundamental, and supremely justified frustration with politicos that virtually always favour the wealthy, powerful and well-connected above all others, who never actually enact the change and policies they promised, and were mandated to bring, and who largely ignore the interests of typical Americans; there are few more prolific and apt poster boys of this than Obama. Meanwhile, Trump won the Blue Wall/rust belt off the back of an economic populist message, despite the fact that he never intended to follow through on it, while Clinton largely twiddled her thumbs by contrast. Now, as Trump is revealed to be the fraud he is, we have a partial reversal in the 2018 mid terms as he has become one of the most unpopular presidents of all time. The lesson is obvious.
Click to expand...

Obama was probably not up to the task of POTUS, honestly who is in this day and age. Who wants to be under a microscope? The Democratic field bears this out. I came down the on-ramp in the last months of the Truman Administration. How the world has changed. Te US has always been about the money. In the past, we were able to sugar-coat the process and the crooks and grifters had some class. They also made sure to leave a little something for the next outfit. Now the music in the musical chairs game is playing faster and there is the realization that there will NOT be enough seats when the music stops; imo, it’s al about grabbing as much as possible before the tune stops. Much like a war/conflict that the combatants know is going to end and want to grab as much territory before the cease-fire.

Imo, Trump didn’t realize how bright the Kleig lights were going to be and he has never had to answer to another body as to his actions/decisions.
 
Surrealistik said:
Right, like not even trying to pressure or persuade those who are obstacles to your policies: Lieberman: Obama Never Pressed Me On Public Option | HuffPost Canada
Click to expand...

One of many reasons Obama was not nearly as liked by "the left" as some have it.

I was/am bitterly annoyed with him for being so surprisingly naive about the way politics works. If a politician wants to deliver, they've got to form connections, lobby people, make deals, even twist arms. That's the way it is because that's the way human beings are. Obama wanted to be above it all. That means you don't deliver much.

Of course, I also have to cede that he may not have been able to get much more seeing as the GOP had decided to oppose everything he did to "break him and make him a one term president" (McConnell quote, I believe?).


Perhaps he could have at least got a public option had he tried from the outset.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
A rather odd thing for someone who promised the "fundamental transformation of America" to be saying.
Click to expand...

At the end of the day, Obama turned out to be a neoliberal corporatist like the rest of both parties.

But he is right in this instance.

Decades of propaganda designed to keep unfettered capitalism going have the American people terrified of anything anybody even calls "socialist".
 
I don't think Democrats should negotiate their own positions before they get into office. He's probably right that most Americans aren't chomping at the bit for radical change, but I'm a big believer in starting from the boldest position possible because ultimately everything will get a little watered down even if you pick the "reasonable" one.
 
What if...? said:
At the end of the day, Obama turned out to be a neoliberal corporatist like the rest of both parties.

But he is right in this instance.

Decades of propaganda designed to keep unfettered capitalism going have the American people terrified of anything anybody even calls "socialist".
Click to expand...

which is why the Trumpers love to apply that term to any Democrat, or any government program supported by Democrats. It's so much easier to say "socialism" than it is to honestly debate issues.
 
What if...? said:
At the end of the day, Obama turned out to be a neoliberal corporatist like the rest of both parties.

But he is right in this instance.

Decades of propaganda designed to keep unfettered capitalism going have the American people terrified of anything anybody even calls "socialist".
Click to expand...

On Obama wasn't right then and he certainly isn't now.

Neo-McCarthyism is a loser, and every year socialism as a smear and pejorative loses more of its power, largely thanks to the efforts of Sanders' associating it with things people actually like, and chronic misuse of the word by Republicans such that it's lost its meaning; we know this because core and pillar progressive policies consistently poll very well.


Rexedgar said:
Obama was probably not up to the task of POTUS, honestly who is in this day and age. Who wants to be under a microscope? The Democratic field bears this out. I came down the on-ramp in the last months of the Truman Administration. How the world has changed. Te US has always been about the money. In the past, we were able to sugar-coat the process and the crooks and grifters had some class. They also made sure to leave a little something for the next outfit. Now the music in the musical chairs game is playing faster and there is the realization that there will NOT be enough seats when the music stops; imo, it’s al about grabbing as much as possible before the tune stops. Much like a war/conflict that the combatants know is going to end and want to grab as much territory before the cease-fire.

Imo, Trump didn’t realize how bright the Kleig lights were going to be and he has never had to answer to another body as to his actions/decisions.
Click to expand...

I think there are some fine candidates in the Dem field; dauntless fighters and pulpit bullies that will take on the powerful and doggedly pursue their broadly popular policies and follow through to their utmost ability, such as Sanders and to a lesser extent Warren.

Beyond that I mostly agree with you; though the whole plutocracy thing probably more started in earnest in the 70s about the same time unlimited political spending was insanely ruled by the then SCOTUS as speech and constitutionally protected.

Mr Person said:
One of many reasons Obama was not nearly as liked by "the left" as some have it.

I was/am bitterly annoyed with him for being so surprisingly naive about the way politics works. If a politician wants to deliver, they've got to form connections, lobby people, make deals, even twist arms. That's the way it is because that's the way human beings are. Obama wanted to be above it all. That means you don't deliver much.

Of course, I also have to cede that he may not have been able to get much more seeing as the GOP had decided to oppose everything he did to "break him and make him a one term president" (McConnell quote, I believe?).


Perhaps he could have at least got a public option had he tried from the outset.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately there are two takes with Obama ultimately: either he was weak and naive, or he never really believed in his own agenda, and both of these are terrible. Even if one were to blame the GOP, and there is certainly much blame to be had by them, Obama had a hand in bringing them to power, while squandering the precious time Democrats held majorities in every branch of the federal government.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom