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What does "influencing" an election look like?

Influencing an election can look like many things. Of all the things influencing any aspect of the U.S. electoral/political process may look like, things it must never entail, regardless of what it "looks like," is something whereby:
The 2016 presidential campaign team is not the first to come under scrutiny for potentially having collaborated with or otherwise been abetted unlawfully by foreign actors. Similar questions were by the GOP held Senate, and led by Sen. Fred Thompson, pursuant to imagined involvement in Bill Clinton's 1996 campaign by Chinese nationals. The ensuing investigation, which included a parallel criminal inquiry, did not uphold Thompson’s claims, but Congress, with bipartisan accord, yet amended election law to tighten the long-standing prohibition against foreign national spending in federal elections and close additional extant loopholes in the proscriptive provisions regarding foreign interference in American elections.

Doubtless is that Russia devoted resources to influence the outcome of the 2016 election; however, unlike 1996, the mode of intervention -- email hacking, issuing fake news -- has focused much criminal investigation on computer security and espionage statutes. The controversy thus lacks the "feel" of a simple case of political spending. Furthermore, the matter has obtained the air of 21st century cyber-crime and foreign intelligence service chicanery, making it a matter of sophisticated international subterfuge rather than one of banal burglary and an associated cover-up as we had with Watergate.

The law prohibits foreign nationals from providing “anything of value … in connection with” an election. The hacking of the Podesta emails, which were then transmitted to Wikileaks for posting, clearly had value, and its connection to the election is clear. None other than Trump said so publicly, egging on the Russians to locate and publish Clinton emails to aid his campaign, famously bidding: "I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30K emails that are missing;" moreover, Trump confidante, Roger Stone, offered similar contemporaneous statements about the value placed on these disclosures.

As for the criminal culpability of campaign personnel, the relevant regulation requires actus reus and mens rea nexused, at least, with "substantial assistance" to the foreign spender who illegally plies a "thing of value." Does a presidential campaign render this substantial assistance to a foreign national engaged in influencing an election by endorsing the specific activity and confirming its strategic utility? Well, when the Federal Election Commission (FEC) promulgated the ban on “substantial assistance,” it made clear that the term was to be broadly construed. It offered the concrete example of a U.S. citizen acting as a "conduit or intermediary" for foreign spending, citing such as but one example.

Russia investigators are, of course, examining whether Trump campaign members aired private assurances or conditional offers to foreign nationals -- including Russians and their agents -- to encourage them or help coordinate dissemination of ideas, information and/or materials. Coordination at this level likely warrant applying Section 110.20 provisions such as those aimed at the campaign’s acceptance or receipt of the Russian assistance, or even its direct solicitation of it, thus establishing a criminal nexus of acts and intents.

So, one might argue that the hacking and dissemination of the Podesta emails were not contributions covered by the federal campaign finance law; however, they were something of value, and the statute and related regulations of the FEC separately prohibit any value given by a foreign national. To probatively make such a case, given the nature and scope of extant FEC laws, one must argue that a presidential candidate can invite, accept and/or exploit, the aid of a foreign intelligence service because it is a particular kind of “value,” yet that Russians distributed information through online bots, the creation of DC Leaks in the United States, or the payment for online advertising did not contribute to the campaign's ends.

So what does election influence look like? Many things; it's not a binary thing; it's not enumerated list of "looks."
 
I asked the first question based on a post of yours, I'm not off topic cause you determined the topic.

I've already read your Wikipedia link and you still have yet to answer the question, what in the DNC/DCCC email hack was damaging to the Clinton Campaign ?? Just so you understand, I asked you Mach.

It wasn't just those hacks. It was hacking the data on voters in 30 states, and using that to target potential switchers with social media ads or posts from fake "friends", using sophisticated algorithms. It may even have been getting into the ridiculously undefended simple voting machines and nudging a result here and there. It was trolls in "factories" swaying opinion online for years! The effect is cumulative, and only 70,000 votes were needed in the end. It looks like Putin bought a US presidency for half a million dollars. And the "winners" don't care, because they "showed those liberals!"
 
Please.

Trump was railing about a "rigged election" before Election Day. If he had lost, he would have gone on a multi-week tirade, screaming about a "lost election," blaming everyone and everything except himself for the loss.

You mean like Hillary?
 
• Illegally hacking a candidate's servers, and gathering private communications and/or documents

• Illegally hacking into election boards

• Stealing voter information

• Foreigners spending on campaign ads

• Illegally hacking electronic voting machines and tampering with votes

• Blackmailing candidates

• Foreigners funding candidates, or providing any material support

• Foreigners infiltrating campaigns and government organizations, in order to influence election activities

Almost all of the above happened in 2016.


Twitter trolls were legal (afaik), but obviously unethical.

Russian oligarchs saying to their American buddies "boy I hope Trump wins" is legal. That isn't what we're talking about.

I.e. The Russians illegally and unethically interfered with the 2016 election, as well as numerous elections outside the US before and since, and are trying to do it again in 2018.

We're talking about the core function of our democracy here. I don't care who benefitted from it, this is not a partisan issue. This is a foreign adversary attacking the US. No American should tolerate it, no matter who they voted for.

I'm pretty sure that Russia isn't accused of hacking Hillary's server. They did, apparently, get the DNC and Podesta's email. I would ask, however, which of those emails was most damaging (or damaging at all) to Clinton. Can you cite even one "bombshell" that came out of that? Since we're on this subject, let me ask a hypothetical question: If the Russians had hacked Trump's email and obtained a ton of stuff showing common use of racial epithets, plans to round up and haul off anyone that looked Mexican ("We'll sort 'em out later!", and lurid stories of affairs with actresses would you consider it to be OK for them to release that stuff to Wikileaks? Would a release like that have been called "influencing the election" or would it have been called "justifiable".

I may be mistaken about this but I believe that phishing schemes were directed at 20+ "voting systems" but that no votes were changed and no voter data was stolen.

The voter data you cite as being "stolen", I believe, was the result of schemes using Facebook and Twitter. The data wasn't so much "stolen" as it was given willingly by unsuspecting dupes.

I'm not sure where you get "illegally hacking voting machines and tampering with votes". I haven't seen that one charged yet.

Blackmailing candidates? Really? Does the term "pee tape" ring a bell? That wasn't released by Russian hacking. That was a joint operation by McCain and Clinton.

Foreigners funding candidates? 1996 Chinagate.

Influencing elections....I love this complaint. How do you measure "influencing a campaign"? How do you differentiate between how much the opposition party propaganda influences the public versus how much some foreign entities propaganda influences the public?

Now, let's say that a political candidate actually did collude with the KGB (FSB) to influence an election. What would the public think then? What if the candidate actually KNEW that they were colluding with Russians to influence an election? Wouldn't that be bad?

Well, probably not if that candidate was a Democrat. - https://www.forbes.com/2009/08/27/ted-kennedy-soviet-union-ronald-reagan-opinions-columnists-peter-robinson.html#1fba0435359a
 
And if the same tactic benefit a Democrat you'd have the same opinion?

Believe this, if that had been Hilldog pulling Putins pud in Helsinki, the Rep House would be writing Articles of Impeachment. Folks, show your disgust at the ballot box in Nov. Its time to neuter the Russian stooge in the WH !!
 
They did, apparently, get the DNC and Podesta's email. I would ask, however, which of those emails was most damaging (or damaging at all) to Clinton. Can you cite even one "bombshell" that came out of that?

Trump cited stolen emails laundered through Wikileaks ~140 times in the final month of the campaign. Clearly he thought his Russian allies had given him something. And he's repaying the favor to his benefactors handsomely, to the detriment of the United States.
 
But WE are doing it to further the aims of democracy and freedom, rather that snuff it out like other countries and the far left in the USA.

That is an important distinction.

An "important distinction" based in pure fiction, but hey, whatever you gotta tell yourself to make it through the day.
 
you do understand OUR government has messed with elections ALL over the planet for decades...right?

did you honestly believe it would never come back on us?

So we're just supposed to bend over and take it when it happens, and be pleased when our "president" is giving off all signs that he was complicit in said meddling?
 
Trump cited stolen emails laundered through Wikileaks ~140 times in the final month of the campaign. Clearly he thought his Russian allies had given him something. And he's repaying the favor to his benefactors handsomely, to the detriment of the United States.

So which email or emails was so damaging? Just give me one that stands out. If Trump was quoting them there MUST be at least one he beat Hillary over the head with.

There aren't any. The Podesta emails show ONE thing and that's the cooperation between the Clinton campaign and media outlets we already knew were in the tank for her. The only possibly damaging thing to come out of any of the hacking was evidence that the DNC disparaged Sanders and his people. That, like the coordination with Politico and HuffPo, wasn't exactly a revelation.
 
*the stolen DNC emails that severely damaged the Hillary campaign*

What was in the DNC emails that damaged the Clinton Campaign ??

all this hyperventilating over the Russians is based mainly on the fact that the hillary faithful cannot believe she could lose. they cannot fathom how piss poor a candidate she was, how pitiful a campaign she ran and how many independents she pissed off with her arrogance. So they have to find other reasons why their queen lost-ones that don't accept the pure fail of Hillary. You'd think after she lost to an empty suit nobody like Obama in 08 people would realize what a awful campaigner she is. but even with the deck stacked in her favor, she lost. she then lost yet again in 2016.
 
And if the same tactic benefit a Democrat you'd have the same opinion?

Yes actually. Because this stuff has been happening in our elections since we have had them, to one degree or another. I trust my fellow Americans to make their own minds up about issues and vote however they feel is best. How they make their minds up is none of my concern, as its none of my business and something out of my control.
 
So we're just supposed to bend over and take it when it happens, and be pleased when our "president" is giving off all signs that he was complicit in said meddling?

i dont know anymore

i just knew someday it was going to come back and bite us in the ass

we have been playing with other countries politics forever

Intervention, coup's, election manipulation

Now we are getting a small taste of our own medicine....as they throw a little discord into our elections

Question is....what will our response be?

How far do we want to go....what actions do we want to take with RTA....what 1st amendment rights do we want to amend to stop such attacks?

And once we get on this slippery slope, how do we get off?
 
And if the same tactic benefit a Democrat you'd have the same opinion?

please tell me which vote was changed because of RTA

you cant....no one can

they sowed discord....that was their mission.....their entire mission

they wanted as much chaos in our electorate and after the election as possible....and by damn, dont they have it
 
I'm pretty sure that Russia isn't accused of hacking Hillary's server.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...hillary-clinton-email-server-trump-indictment


They did, apparently, get the DNC and Podesta's email.
Yeah, that's still illegal, and in my list.


I would ask, however, which of those emails was most damaging (or damaging at all) to Clinton.
That's irrelevant. The Russian government hacked the campaign, and released the emails, in an attempt to influence the election. That is what you asked about, after all -- not "were the Russians really good at affecting the election?"

And even if there wasn't one single bombshell, it's the overall efforts that are corrosive.


Would a release like that have been called "influencing the election" or would it have been called "justifiable".
It would be "foreign influence on the election."


I may be mistaken about this but I believe that phishing schemes were directed at 20+ "voting systems" but that no votes were changed and no voter data was stolen.
They changed voter rolls and yes, stole voter data.

Russian Hacking on Election More Widespread Than Reported | Time


The voter data you cite as being "stolen", I believe, was the result of schemes using Facebook and Twitter. The data wasn't so much "stolen" as it was given willingly by unsuspecting dupes.
Actually, that isn't what I was thinking about at all. Cambridge Analytica, which did not inform users of the data it was taking, and refused to delete the data after they agreed to do so, is a US firm and is thus not an example of illegal foreign influence.


I'm not sure where you get "illegally hacking voting machines and tampering with votes". I haven't seen that one charged yet.
Read my post. I said that "not all of these happened in 2016." But you didn't ask "what foreign tampering happened in 2016?" You asked "what does illegal foreign influence look like?"


Blackmailing candidates? Really?
Really. Read my post. I said that "not all of these happened in 2016." But you didn't ask "what foreign tampering happened in 2016?" You asked "what does illegal foreign influence look like?"


Does the term "pee tape" ring a bell? That wasn't released by Russian hacking. That was a joint operation by McCain and Clinton.
1) US campaigns hiring PIs digging up dirt is legal, and not an example of foreign influence.
2) It wasn't used to blackmail anyone.


Foreigners funding candidates? 1996 Chinagate.
Read my post. I said that "not all of these happened in 2016." But you didn't ask "what foreign tampering happened in 2016?" You asked "what does illegal foreign influence look like?"


Influencing elections....I love this complaint. How do you measure "influencing a campaign"?
It doesn't have to be quantified. Again, you asked etc etc


Now, let's say that a political candidate actually did collude with the KGB (FSB) to influence an election. What would the public think then? What if the candidate actually KNEW that they were colluding with Russians to influence an election? Wouldn't that be bad?
All this Whataboutism is really fascinating, especially when it's false:
http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...gh-ted-kennedy-undercut-reagan-back-door-lin/

Anyway. This is not a partisan issue. We're talking about a hostile government that attacked our democracy, and is continuing to do so, while our President genuflects before him, and spends days lying about it. Either you're going to apply the standards equally, regardless of partisanship, or you aren't. Screaming "Dems did it!!!" (even when true) while deliberately downplaying the influence that favored Republican candidates does not exactly establish you as a neutral or disinterested observer.
 
please tell me which vote was changed because of RTA
you cant....no one can
they sowed discord....that was their mission.....their entire mission
they wanted as much chaos in our electorate and after the election as possible....and by damn, dont they have it

Oh nonsense. They wanted to get Trump elected, and they succeeded. They wanted chaos in NATO, and Trump gave it to them. They wanted trade with our allies and others disrupted, and Trump gave it to them. They wanted a reduction in sanctions against RUssia, they got it. They wanted to be seen treated as equals on the world stage to show that the U.S. now accepts their invasion of Crimea and the UK assassinations etc...but Trump didn't just give it to them, he got on his hand and knees.

No, Putin may have figured he'd never get Trump elected and would settle for disruption, but his "stretch goals" were met with a resounding success.

Keep preaching this absurdity, MAGA.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...hillary-clinton-email-server-trump-indictment



Yeah, that's still illegal, and in my list.



That's irrelevant. The Russian government hacked the campaign, and released the emails, in an attempt to influence the election. That is what you asked about, after all -- not "were the Russians really good at affecting the election?"

And even if there wasn't one single bombshell, it's the overall efforts that are corrosive.



It would be "foreign influence on the election."



They changed voter rolls and yes, stole voter data.

Russian Hacking on Election More Widespread Than Reported | Time



Actually, that isn't what I was thinking about at all. Cambridge Analytica, which did not inform users of the data it was taking, and refused to delete the data after they agreed to do so, is a US firm and is thus not an example of illegal foreign influence.



Read my post. I said that "not all of these happened in 2016." But you didn't ask "what foreign tampering happened in 2016?" You asked "what does illegal foreign influence look like?"



Really. Read my post. I said that "not all of these happened in 2016." But you didn't ask "what foreign tampering happened in 2016?" You asked "what does illegal foreign influence look like?"



1) US campaigns hiring PIs digging up dirt is legal, and not an example of foreign influence.
2) It wasn't used to blackmail anyone.



Read my post. I said that "not all of these happened in 2016." But you didn't ask "what foreign tampering happened in 2016?" You asked "what does illegal foreign influence look like?"



It doesn't have to be quantified. Again, you asked etc etc



All this Whataboutism is really fascinating, especially when it's false:
Limbaugh: Ted Kennedy undercut Reagan with back-door line to Soviets | PunditFact

Anyway. This is not a partisan issue. We're talking about a hostile government that attacked our democracy, and is continuing to do so, while our President genuflects before him, and spends days lying about it. Either you're going to apply the standards equally, regardless of partisanship, or you aren't. Screaming "Dems did it!!!" (even when true) while deliberately downplaying the influence that favored Republican candidates does not exactly establish you as a neutral or disinterested observer.

Hacking Podesta’s email was likely illegal. The kid that hacked Palin’s email in 2008 got a year in jail. However, whether or not the hacking influenced the election is purely subjective and totally unprovable. Like the Palin hacking, no negative or inflammatory information was exposed. That result could just as easily turned people who believed Clinton was corrupt to reconsider their opinion. In short, it could have helped her.
 
Hacking Podesta’s email was likely illegal.
It was illegal. The Russians sent him malware via email, which compromised his computer. Even if it was an American, it's illegal. You can drop the "likely."


The kid that hacked Palin’s email in 2008 got a year in jail. However, whether or not the hacking influenced the election is purely subjective and totally unprovable.
Let's say Joe breaks into your house, and steal a bunch of costume jewelry. Joe thinks he's gotten away with a fortune, but in reality it's just $200 worth of cheap junk. Did Joe still commit a crime? Yep. Joe may have committed petty theft instead of grand theft, but he still committed multiple crimes (burglary and theft).


Like the Palin hacking, no negative or inflammatory information was exposed.
And as you pointed out, that hacker committed and was convicted of a crime.

Your attempts to minimize the act here does not change the fact that Russians hacked the Clinton campaign with the intent of disrupting our democratic systems. Thus, when you ask "what qualifies as illegal foreign interference in an election?" the answer "hacking a campaign, copying emails, and distributing them" definitely qualifies.
 
It was illegal. The Russians sent him malware via email, which compromised his computer. Even if it was an American, it's illegal. You can drop the "likely."



Let's say Joe breaks into your house, and steal a bunch of costume jewelry. Joe thinks he's gotten away with a fortune, but in reality it's just $200 worth of cheap junk. Did Joe still commit a crime? Yep. Joe may have committed petty theft instead of grand theft, but he still committed multiple crimes (burglary and theft).



And as you pointed out, that hacker committed and was convicted of a crime.

Your attempts to minimize the act here does not change the fact that Russians hacked the Clinton campaign with the intent of disrupting our democratic systems. Thus, when you ask "what qualifies as illegal foreign interference in an election?" the answer "hacking a campaign, copying emails, and distributing them" definitely qualifies.

These were "spearfishing" attacks. It is a cybercrime but it's so common as to be expected in business and, presumably, political circles. Podesta, I believe, even forwarded the suspicious email to his IT team who inadvertently told him it was legitimate. My point is that whether the hacking was instigated by Russia, by the GOP or by some kid from Kentucky working out of his dorm room the damages due to the theft are indeterminable. It IS NOT the kind of thing that warrants a special prosecutor and two years of media outrage. All that stuff is purely political.

Now, just because I like to stir the pot, all this Russia stuff came up under the watchful eye of James Clapper, John Brennan and James Comey. These are all guys who were part and parcel of the Obama/Clinton Democrat party. They all were heavily invested in the foreign policy of the Obama administration and had an interest in seeing that policy continue. It may be tin foil hat stuff but there is at least the possibility that they abetted the Russian plan as an "insurance policy" in case Trump pulled off a win. A "Plan B" to discredit Trump would have fit nicely in the toolbox for the elite political class of both parties. Just think about it. You know that Russia is engaging in cyber propaganda. You know that they prefer Trump to win because they (and you) perceive him to be the weakest candidate and the most easy to overcome in advancing your foreign policy. You already have a vast network of back channels supporting your policy. All you need is a "dossier" to tie Trump to the hacking. If you win you won't need any of that but if you lose you'll be able to hang that millstone around his neck.

Maybe Trump simply didn't trust the people that were briefing him on the hacking because he knew they were not there to support him.
 
These were "spearfishing" attacks. It is a cybercrime but it's so common as to be expected in business and, presumably, political circles....
Yes, it's common. Yes, Podesta checked with his IT staff. Yes, they made a mistake and thought it was legit. None of that changes the fact that it was highly illegal.


My point is that whether the hacking was instigated by Russia, by the GOP or by some kid from Kentucky working out of his dorm room the damages due to the theft are indeterminable. It IS NOT the kind of thing that warrants a special prosecutor and two years of media outrage.
It's part of an organized, concerted, sustained attack on our electoral system. And in case you forgot, we're pretty much fighting against Russia in Syria. So yes, major efforts by an adversarial foreign power requires a major investigation.


Now, just because I like to stir the pot, all this Russia stuff came up under the watchful eye of James Clapper, John Brennan and James Comey. These are all guys who were part and parcel of the Obama/Clinton Democrat party.
Here we go


They all were heavily invested in the foreign policy of the Obama administration and had an interest in seeing that policy continue. It may be tin foil hat stuff but there is at least the possibility that they abetted the Russian plan as an "insurance policy" in case Trump pulled off a win.
Yeah, that is definitely Tin Foil Hat territory.

Once Trump was elected, the only way to bump him is impeachment -- a wildly unpredictable process that could make Trump a martyr or would leave Pence in charge. C'mon, man.


You know that Russia is engaging in cyber propaganda. You know that they prefer Trump to win because they (and you) perceive him to be the weakest candidate and the most easy to overcome in advancing your foreign policy. You already have a vast network of back channels supporting your policy. All you need is a "dossier" to tie Trump to the hacking. If you win you won't need any of that but if you lose you'll be able to hang that millstone around his neck.
Tin Foil Hat + Just-So Story = Fail

Russia has repeatedly attacked democratic elections. They went after the Brexit referendum, the US in 2016, Netherlands in 2017, France in 2017, Germany in 2017, US again in 2017. Bulgaria, Austria, Norway, the list goes on.

Putin is an autocrat, and his goal is to discredit democratic elections and the governments that oppose his agenda. Specific results are not as important as merely disrupting and damaging democracies.


Maybe Trump simply didn't trust the people that were briefing him on the hacking because he knew they were not there to support him.
C'mon, man.

Manafort worked for pro-Putin forces in Ukraine. Flynn had Russian connections. Page was pro-Putin and had business in Russia. Tillerson personally did business with Putin. Roger Stone communicated with Guccifer 2.0. Papadapolous tried to get the campaign to talk to Russian leaders. Trump has done business with Russian oligarchs for years, including trying to build in Moscow. And that's just some of the ties we know about.

The problem isn't with the US intelligence or law enforcement agencies.
 
you do understand OUR government has messed with elections ALL over the planet for decades...right?

did you honestly believe it would never come back on us?

For the 21093472390487239872394587345th time, I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS what "we did in the past".
I LIVE HERE.
 
Responding to this kind of post butchering makes my head hurt and destroys the context of the post you're replying to.
:roll:

No, actually, it maintains the context. It lets you know exactly which points I'm addressing. But since you can't parse it:

Hacking Podesta was illegal.

Hacking the Clinton campaign was illegal.

It doesn't matter if, in your opinion, the damage was minimal. It was illegal.

It doesn't matter if, in your opinion, the damage was minimal. It's serious. It's part of a sustained multi-year campaign.

I should add, the primary way we know about this is because our intelligence agencies are taking it seriously and investigating it.

Russia has spent years using cyberhacking techniques to sabotage democratic elections. US, Germany, France, UK, Netherlands etc. It doesn't matter if, in your opinion, the damage was minimal. It was illegal. They're doing it. It's serious. They are not stopping.

Trump's campaign was up to its freaking eyeballs in Russian connections. People who work for Russia, people who publicly promoted Russia. Trump doing business with Russians. Trump showed he was a Putin toady this week. Russian spies worked their way into right-wing organizations, even the freaking National Prayer Breakfast.

WAKE UP. What Russia did was illegal, it's serious, its intent is to harm the United States and any other democratic nation, and it won't stop by excusing Trump's behaviors or trying to score partisan points.

Is that better?
 
:roll:

No, actually, it maintains the context. It lets you know exactly which points I'm addressing. But since you can't parse it:

Hacking Podesta was illegal.

Hacking the Clinton campaign was illegal.

It doesn't matter if, in your opinion, the damage was minimal. It was illegal.

It doesn't matter if, in your opinion, the damage was minimal. It's serious. It's part of a sustained multi-year campaign.

I should add, the primary way we know about this is because our intelligence agencies are taking it seriously and investigating it.

Russia has spent years using cyberhacking techniques to sabotage democratic elections. US, Germany, France, UK, Netherlands etc. It doesn't matter if, in your opinion, the damage was minimal. It was illegal. They're doing it. It's serious. They are not stopping.

Trump's campaign was up to its freaking eyeballs in Russian connections. People who work for Russia, people who publicly promoted Russia. Trump doing business with Russians. Trump showed he was a Putin toady this week. Russian spies worked their way into right-wing organizations, even the freaking National Prayer Breakfast.

WAKE UP. What Russia did was illegal, it's serious, its intent is to harm the United States and any other democratic nation, and it won't stop by excusing Trump's behaviors or trying to score partisan points.

Is that better?

Great. Hacking is illegal. That's been established and I agree with it. Go ahead and prosecute the offenders if you can.

What we're talking about, however, is how or if that hacking influenced the election. Just because a crime was committed DOES NOT mean that the election was compromised in any way. For example, people were caught and convicted of voting multiple times. The Brennan Center goes to great lengths trying to explain why voter fraud isn't even worth investigating. Meanwhile the Heritage Foundation cites over 1,000 proven cases. Voter fraud, like hacking emails, is a crime but it's not a crime we get all excited about.

The idea that this hacking crap should be used to justify a special prosecutor is absurd. It warrants, at most, an FBI/DoJ investigation with recommendations on how to mitigate it.
 
These were "spearfishing" attacks. It is a cybercrime but it's so common as to be expected in business and, presumably, political circles. Podesta, I believe, even forwarded the suspicious email to his IT team who inadvertently told him it was legitimate. My point is that whether the hacking was instigated by Russia, by the GOP or by some kid from Kentucky working out of his dorm room the damages due to the theft are indeterminable. It IS NOT the kind of thing that warrants a special prosecutor and two years of media outrage. All that stuff is purely political.

Now, just because I like to stir the pot, all this Russia stuff came up under the watchful eye of James Clapper, John Brennan and James Comey. These are all guys who were part and parcel of the Obama/Clinton Democrat party. They all were heavily invested in the foreign policy of the Obama administration and had an interest in seeing that policy continue. It may be tin foil hat stuff but there is at least the possibility that they abetted the Russian plan as an "insurance policy" in case Trump pulled off a win. A "Plan B" to discredit Trump would have fit nicely in the toolbox for the elite political class of both parties. Just think about it. You know that Russia is engaging in cyber propaganda. You know that they prefer Trump to win because they (and you) perceive him to be the weakest candidate and the most easy to overcome in advancing your foreign policy. You already have a vast network of back channels supporting your policy. All you need is a "dossier" to tie Trump to the hacking. If you win you won't need any of that but if you lose you'll be able to hang that millstone around his neck.

Maybe Trump simply didn't trust the people that were briefing him on the hacking because he knew they were not there to support him.

Who the hell would trust the likes of Comey, McCabe, Brennan, Clapper after Director Admiral Rogers at the NSA paid Trump a visit at Trump tower where his transition team was set up shortly after the election. There he told him he and members of his team were being surveilled by the FBI. It was Rogers' team that came across irregularities so Rogers ordered an audit. It revealed excessive unmaskings and FISA abuse. After that Rogers hand walked his finding to the FISA court to reveal the abuse. Then without telling anyone in the Obama administration he went to see Trump and told him his team was being surveilled. The very next day the transition team moved to Trump's golf course in Jersey.


Later Trump said he was being wiretapped and the response from the media and others is that he was a clown wearing a tinfoil hat. But it turned out to be true.


Brennan Obama's CIA director, Clapper director of NIA, Comey, FBI, are the persons Trump received his intelligence reports from up till he was sworn in, in late January 2017. Brennan, Clapper and Carter Ashe of DOD all resigned Obama's last day in office and one of the Obama underlings in those Intel departments took over temporarily till Trump's nominees were confirmed. But that turned out to be a fiasco because the Democrats in the Senate slow walked Trump's appointees keeping Obama's holdovers in place. Another example is the DOJ where they slow walked Sessions' confirmation and was one of the most brutal I have ever witnessed in all my years. That allowed Sally Yates to play acting AG for months. Yes Sally Yates whose office is just one door down from Bruce Ohr's who we now know 18 months later was in bed with FUSION GPS and his wife worked for FUSION GPS who were hired by the Clinton campaign. They produced the infamous dossier. And the same thing happened at the State Department. All major branches of government involving intelligence, Trump's appointees were stonewalled by the Democrats in the Senate allowing months of their "friends" in control. For at least the first 6-8 months of Trump's presidency he wasn't even entitled to seat his picks for very key positions by design. He fires Comey and what did he get for months before Christopher Wray was confirmed? McCabe another partisan hack.


18 months later we have the former CIA director Brennan on MSNBC employed as a anti-Trump partisan hack. We have the former NIA director James Clapper employed at CNN as an anti-Trump political hack. We have James Comey writing an anti-Trump book, giving interviews non-stop and now calling for everyone to vote Democrat in the midterms. Another political hack. All three perjured themselves before Congress.

Would I trust any of these Yahoos? Hell no! And all this Russian hacking happened under their friggen watch! Where is their personal responsibility in all of this? Where is the DNC's responsibility for not protecting their servers, etc. from hacking?


While the investigations are ongoing, my hope is before long we're hearing Brennan, Clapper, and Comey are spending a fortune in lawyering up for what is to come.
 
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