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Trump isn’t the real problem

eohrnberger said:
Not always being told that the US is crap, bad, terrible.

The US has some instances where it was good, and other instances where it was less than it should have been, but on the whole, better than most.

How's that saying go? "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."
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Yea we did horrible things, but what country hasn't through history?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
No, I expect a society that works for the benifit of all mankind and where no one is privileged by who they are or what they are born with.
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Yea b/c thats the only motivation people will have b/c its "good for society", human nature doesn't work that way (there are individuals that do believe that) but not everyone thinks they way. They may only care to benefit themselves, their families or people they know.
 
enderpotato00 said:
Yea we did horrible things, but what country hasn't through history?
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Indeed, and indeed correct.
Those that don't study history are doomed to repeat it.

I'll note that it seems that the millennial generation is rather clueless about history.
 
Lutherf said:
"Trump isn't the problem. The problem is rural Americans who are all Nazis." That's what this ****piece says.

Nothing says "unity" quite like "everyone outside the city limits is a closet Nazi". I know this may be hard for some of you to believe but what REALLY pisses off the people outside the Blue Bubble is being referred to as "deplorables" and "nazis" and "hillbillies". The reason many of us don't particularly care for many of you is because you're so often elitist assholes.
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Just a note...being called an elitist asshole simple for living in a urban environment doesn't add much to unity either.
 
JMR said:
Just a note...being called an elitist asshole simple for living in a urban environment doesn't add much to unity either.
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I think his point is that these type of people are very privileged and think they care about minorities while just making them out as victims all the time.
 
enderpotato00 said:
I think his point is that these type of people are very privileged and think they care about minorities while just making them out as victims all the time.
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I think this is a stereotype that does not actually meld with the reality.
 
eohrnberger said:
Probably true.

How does that square with all the baseless accusations of racism to silence political opposition? The free expression of counter ideas?

Doesn't seem to square with that at all.
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If I was a store owner who puts up a sign on the store that said “ help wanted. No Irish Need Apply.” Would I not be racist?

If I threw bricks into the window of a Irish bar, would I be racist?

If I said on public television that the Irish are nothing but liars and thieves and did not deserve to have the vote, would I be racist?

If I were a police officer who deliberately pulled over or ticketed people whom I judged to be Irish based on their physical traits, would I be racist?


The answer to all my questions is yes! If I believe that being Irish makes a person more likely to be a trouble maker or rabble rouser, if being irish makes a person inferior to me and somehow less deserving of equal treatment, then I am being racist and deserved to be called out on such views because such views are reprehensible.

And that is my position on the matter.
 
enderpotato00 said:
No there are liberals that are like that. Look it up.
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So you are saying SOME people who live in urban areas are elitist assholes. That would then correlate with SOME people in the rural areas are Nazis?

What good does this name calling achieve ?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
If I was a store owner who puts up a sign on the store that said “ help wanted. No Irish Need Apply.” Would I not be racist?

If I threw bricks into the window of a Irish bar, would I be racist?

If I said on public television that the Irish are nothing but liars and thieves and did not deserve to have the vote, would I be racist?

If I were a police officer who deliberately pulled over or ticketed people whom I judged to be Irish based on their physical traits, would I be racist?


The answer to all my questions is yes! If I believe that being Irish makes a person more likely to be a trouble maker or rabble rouser, if being irish makes a person inferior to me and somehow less deserving of equal treatment, then I am being racist and deserved to be called out on such views because such views are reprehensible.

And that is my position on the matter.
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You have the right under the constitution to say that. Freedom of speech, unless it actually harms someone (not feelings, actual violence)
 
TheGoverness said:
I am not stunned by the comparisons. Everybody just has to compare Trump's administration to the rise of the Nazi Party in the 1930's. It's stupid and dumb, and I wish people would stop doing it with every president that they don't like.
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In other words, you're saying that we should refrain from violating Godwin's law, right? Godwin himself said that the right-wing protesters at Charlottesville should be called Nazis, especially since some of them were flying Nazi (or neo-Nazi) flags.

But when it comes to Trump, there's a good article about a discussion between history professors at Cornell. To make a long discussion much shorter, the conditions that enabled the rise of Trump do mirror at least to some extent those that enabled the rise of Hitler, and that Trump's tendencies do somewhat resemble Hitler's:

Hull pointed out that some of the things that paved the way for fascism in Germany are repeated now, such as a weak government that was intentionally undermined by its elites, and “a highly stove-piped national press, such that people only heard and saw what they already thought, and that should sound familiar though it now comes in a different mode,” said Hull, the John Stambaugh Professor of History.

Another similarity Hull pointed to was that Hitler, like Trump, “had no regard for bureaucracy or law or regularity or policies. Under National Socialism, that system of government made it flexible, adaptable, but also self-radicalizing and ultimately completely self-destructive.”

But the other side of the argument was admittedly more effective:

In explaining Trump’s ascendance there’s been far too much emphasis placed on socio-economic problems and far too little on cultural and status problems, said Hull: Populism, not fascism, better explains Trump’s support. U.S. populism, she said, began as a revolt by farmers against the industrial and financial movements of the 1880-90s. It was a status revolt “by a group of people who felt sold out because they received lip service as being great yeoman farmers … but who believed that they were being disadvantaged and sold out by the rest of America.” It was, said Hull, a liberation movement to “free them from their perceived victimized status and return to values they felt that they epitomized.” And while this populist movement was xenophobic and racist, it lacked effective leadership, strong organization or the transcendent ideology that defines fascism and National Socialism.

Trump won, said Traverso, because of “the rejection of the political establishment through both mass abstention and a protest vote captured by a populist demagogue” – not because of a fascist revolution.

To summarize, comparing Trump and the GOP to Hitler and the Nazis is not without reason or merit...BUT it is still in accurate in that they don't have the effective leadership, strong organization, and transcendent ideology that defined Nazism.
 
JMR said:
So you are saying SOME people who live in urban areas are elitist assholes. That would then correlate with SOME people in the rural areas are Nazis?

What good does this name calling achieve ?
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A lot of liberals believe if I support Trump I'm racist. Thats not a generalization is it not?
 
StuPedaso said:
Oh yes! He is! Right here, right now ... djt and his "miss-administration" is the REAL problem! Little djt is our NATIONAL problem.
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The racism and misogyny were already there. Obama actually treated African Americans like people - Trump is a backlash for that and how DARE we have a woman for a presidential candidate. Old straight rich white guys are very very scared.
 
jghiretire said:
The racism and misogyny were already there. Obama actually treated African Americans like people - Trump is a backlash for that and how DARE we have a woman for a presidential candidate. Old straight rich white guys are very very scared.
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And Obama kissed everyone ass. In Russia, even officials refused to shake his hand b/c they had very little respect. Obama was just a weak leader. Also Hillary Clinton was a crook.
 
JMR said:
Just a note...being called an elitist asshole simple for living in a urban environment doesn't add much to unity either.
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If you're one of the people, like the knucklehead that wrote the article or the candidate for president that wasn't Trump, who figures anyone east of LA and west of DC is a nazi then you're an elitist asshole. That article in the OP is the EPITOME of elitist assholery.
 
enderpotato00 said:
Yea ok. Because there aren't any Americans that actually believe in making this country great and not turn into what is going on in Europe?
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MAGA - Mueller Ain't Going Away. What needed making it "great again"??? Explanation??
 
jghiretire said:
MAGA - Mueller Ain't Going Away. What needed making it "great again"??? Explanation??
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Making America not the laughing stock of the world and intruding on EVERYTHING. Thats a start.
 
enderpotato00 said:
A lot of liberals believe if I support Trump I'm racist. Thats not a generalization is it not?
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I have posted here numerous times....I think Trump supporters are many types....Hillary haters, Republicans who want to give him a chance, angry people, and racists. Mixed bag. I have no idea which category you fit in, haven't really seen a lot of your posts.

Since his nomination I believe Trump has given the population many good reasons to question why his supporters continue to support him... Some just stubborn, others happy with what they are seeing. That leads me to further questions....
 
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