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2020 Dem Female Ticket

Did Manchin, McCaskill, Donnelly, Heitkamp etc. magically disappear?

It seems so.

Clinton is *not* a centrist. Never has been.

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That there are conservative blue dog Dems to the right of Clinton doesn't make her left, it makes them blue dogs. Relative to the again, skewed frame of reference/orthodoxy concerning the pool of American politicos, I'd put them at the right of centre; what they have in common with Clinton is that they both are on the continuum of centrism.

It's all relative really, and a typical US centrist or even leftist is basically a right wing politico in pretty much any other developed country, which is part of the reason 'centrists' don't actually align with independents, why Sanders does, and why the fetishism for them among some Democrats is so tragic/laughable, especially in light of the mountains of evidence/polling that blatantly contradict their unsupported notion that centrists, as Americans know them, are somehow the way forward politically.

Moreover, being a dual citizen residing in Canada, a country whose political orthodoxy is itself overall to the right of most of Europe (albeit not nearly as much as the States), the notion that even someone as obviously right wing (she's about on par with our Conservatives if they could legislate what they believe without incurring political suicide; perhaps even further to the right) as Clinton could be earnestly considered centrist, nevermind left, is laughable to me.
 
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More interesting having both all female Democrat and Republican ticket running against each other.
Who knows ?
With patience and confidence they may put the country back on track.
 
That there are conservative blue dog Dems to the right of Clinton doesn't make her left, it makes them blue dogs. Relative to the again, skewed frame of reference/orthodoxy concerning the pool of American politicos, I'd put them at the right of centre; what they have in common with Clinton is that they both are on the continuum of centrism.

It's all relative really, and a typical US centrist or even leftist is basically a right wing politico in pretty much any other developed country, which is part of the reason 'centrists' don't actually align with independents, why Sanders does, and why the fetishism for them among some Democrats is so tragic/laughable, especially in light of the mountains of evidence/polling that blatantly contradict their unsupported notion that centrists, as Americans know them, are somehow the way forward politically.

Moreover, being a dual citizen residing in Canada, a country whose political orthodoxy is itself overall to the right of most of Europe (albeit not nearly as much as the States), the notion that even someone as obviously right wing (she's about on par with our Conservatives if they could legislate what they believe without incurring political suicide; perhaps even further to the right) as Clinton could be earnestly considered centrist, nevermind left, is laughable to me.

Of course Clinton comes off as center-right to foreign viewers. That's their political spectrum. It's not ours. We don't respond to international forms and norms, because we can't really participate in them, even if we had the inclination to do so (which we by and large do not). We have to abide by our political spectrum to appropriately analyze it in a domestic context.

Blue Dog Democrats are, basically, your centrist political figures for Democratic Party candidates. Hillary Clinton has always been a liberal and never a centrist. She only became identified as such when the left-wing of the Democratic Party wanted to pursue its vision for the party and push the party toward its left-most years during the early 1970s. In so doing, they inadvertently or purposefully erased the Blue Dog wing of the party and used the Obama-Clinton wing as the proverbial center. They weren't but it became a cute thing for lefties to dream up.
 
Of course Clinton comes off as center-right to foreign viewers. That's their political spectrum. It's not ours. We don't respond to international forms and norms, because we can't really participate in them, even if we had the inclination to do so (which we by and large do not). We have to abide by our political spectrum to appropriately analyze it in a domestic context.

Blue Dog Democrats are, basically, your centrist political figures for Democratic Party candidates. Hillary Clinton has always been a liberal and never a centrist. She only became identified as such when the left-wing of the Democratic Party wanted to pursue its vision for the party and push the party toward its left-most years during the early 1970s. In so doing, they inadvertently or purposefully erased the Blue Dog wing of the party and used the Obama-Clinton wing as the proverbial center. They weren't but it became a cute thing for lefties to dream up.

Right (again, even in Canada she'd be considered right wing; from a European perspective I can only imagine she'd be flirting with the fringes), not centre-right, and yes, you're correct, it's a different frame of reference, I've acknowledged this.

However, even by an American standard/FoR, I can't really call her a liberal as liberals go in the party; if she is, she's on the right-most end of what can be called a liberal.

Remember, the Clintons are easily the most (in)famous of the 'third way' Dems, and in fact are fundamentally avatars of the movement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Way

The only way Clinton could be perceived as a bona-fide liberal is from a position on the right. To be fair, the political frame of reference/orthodoxy in America has slowly crept that way since the 70s, likely due to a combination of Reaganism and the right leaning explosion of money in politics as a consequence of Buckey v Valeo 76.

I think it is telling that you perceive the left as having such power and influence as to some how foster a collective perception of Clinton as a centrist/moderate; that was not our doing. We of the FDR/Sanders wing largely did not, and do not regard her as either (except perhaps as a euphemism/shorthand of convenience for her true stances), but as a corporatist; one who, like virtually every other Third Way Dem/Clintonian, put donor and corporate interests first and foremost before those of constituents. More than anything else, you can probably thank the media for her branding: we had little to do with it.

While I think it's true there might be an element of contrast principle at play, the fact is that the party as a whole, until recently, has only gotten more and more economically conservative, albeit socially liberal since, as you've said, the early 70s (again, likely due to the immense proliferation of private money in public office per Buckley v Valeo). Remember, once upon a time, the FDR wing was the norm and dominant wing as opposed to being branded 'fringe extremists' by both the establishment Dems of today and media sources friendly to them; the rightward shift in the party is painfully apparent and undeniable to anyone who's been paying attention. That having been said, in general, I don't think that Blue Dogs have been displaced (outside of the recent resurgence of the FDR wing) so much as social conservatism has been displaced within the Dem party; the reasons for this seem pretty apparent to me: social justice costs megadonors nothing; economic justice costs them a lot. Meanwhile, Third Way Dems can, have and continue to lean heavily on identity politics and social liberalism to mask and smokescreen their rank economic conservatism.

Bottom line, if Clinton cannot be called a centrist of some stripe per the American FoR, left leaning or otherwise, it's only because political orthodoxy has moved unbelievably to the right. Moreover, despite this shift in orthodoxy and FoR among the political class, I think it's evident by now that the general populace has not subscribed to the same, which is in large part why Sanders (despite often being lampooned as extreme/fringe) does well and people who identify as 'centrists' generally do not (at least relatively), and probably would not come 2020.
 
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In the current culture, I thought it may be interesting to see what folks would think of an all female Dem ticket in 2020. I have my own ideas, save for later. Obviously you know who is not an option. This could be a winner for the Dems in 2020 provided the top of the ticket was a centrist and does not come with the name Clinton.

**** the gender thing. Just pick the best two candidates.

If there are two good females, do it. But my fear is that the Dems would be all "ooooo, look at us, two females! Look at the *****-grabbers". It'd be "deplorables" times 10.



They need to back off that tack. If I see Trump 2020-2024, I think I'll lose all hope in humanity. Or at least in America
 
In the current culture, I thought it may be interesting to see what folks would think of an all female Dem ticket in 2020. I have my own ideas, save for later. Obviously you know who is not an option. This could be a winner for the Dems in 2020 provided the top of the ticket was a centrist and does not come with the name Clinton.

Shouldn't they be chosen based on who is the best choice, not based on what sex they are? And if you are just picking women candidates because they are women, doesn't that makes you more likely to lose? Well, if Democrats really were dead set on an all-women ticket, the best ticket I can think of for them would probably be Kamala Harris and Amy Klobuchar. The biggest problem there is that Harris is from California and Klobuchar is from Minnesota, two already heavy Democratic states, although Trump is targeting Minnesota already, and he lost last election by only 1% despite not really campaigning in Minnesota. I think Klobuchar could do a lot for helping sure up the Midwest, though, and both women are intelligent and well-spoken. So yeah, that's my vote.
 
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