Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 44

Thread: Democrats eye gains in Pennsylvania trial on 'goofy' gerrymandering

  1. #11
    Guru
    MrPeanut's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,082

    Re: Democrats eye gains in Pennsylvania trial on 'goofy' gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by holbritter View Post
    Huh.. I never knew it was around for as long as it has been.

    The word gerrymander (originally written Gerry-mander) was used for the first time in the Boston Gazette on 26 March 1812. The word was created in reaction to a redrawing of Massachusetts state senate election districts under Governor Elbridge Gerry (pronounced /ˈɡɛri/; 17441814). In 1812, Governor Gerry signed a bill that redistricted Massachusetts to benefit his Democratic-Republican Party. When mapped, one of the contorted districts in the Boston area was said to resemble the shape of a mythological salamander.[4]


    How would people go about changing this? Could it just be done by county? School districts?
    Independent commissions. https://ballotpedia.org/Independent_...ng_commissions

    I think it would be a big step in the right direction. It isn't perfect, but it is better than what we have now.

  2. #12
    Guru
    HowardBThiname's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    America's Heartland
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:03 AM
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    4,885

    Re: Democrats eye gains in Pennsylvania trial on 'goofy' gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    LEGITIMACY



    The Electoral College is not the least bit reflective of the popular-vote and in any Real Democracy the popular-vote is the only valid election-measure.

    Moreover, the Electoral College has resulted in at least 5 instances where the loser of the democratic popular-vote was, in fact, the winner in the Electoral College. Twice recently, Al Gore lost to Dubya, and Hillary to Donald Dork.
    We need to avoid the popular vote, as our Founders understood, but too many today don't understand the reasoning behind it. We've never been a "true democracy" and that's a good thing.

    Because our system of governance is represented at both the state and federal level, our Founders realized that large populations of citizens could easily overrule the best interests of less-populated states.

    The EC was set up to give all regions better representation, despite their population. The EC is better at geographically representing the citizens.


    Which has resulted in presidencies that are considered "less than satisfactory", and why they should be done away with.
    Bull****. Less than satisfactory presidencies are a result of less than satisfactory candidates. Want better presidents? Run better candidates.

    It's simple - such elections have no real electoral legitimacy because our EC in far too many states has no direct proportionality to the popular vote. Which results in a map of the US, if measured according to proportionality of the Electoral College, that would look like this:
    The elections are perfectly legitimate and will remain that way.

    The distortion of the Electoral College vote should be evident.

    Had elections been by popular-vote with two rounds to finalize an initial multiple-candidate vote*, none of the five historical-errors would have happened.

    And finally, the US finds itself (with its electoral college) amongst this august list-of-nations: Burundi, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Madagascar, Myanmar, Pakistan, Trinidad, Tobago and Vanuatu.

    Wow ... !

    *First-round of all candidates who propose to run, and Second-round (in a weeks time) with the top two winners of the first round.
    The EC is the best and fairest way to elect a President. Many have whined and cried about it but that's just too bad. Their lack of understanding doesn't translate into a need to change the election process.
    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." ~ Thomas Jefferson

  3. #13
    Guru

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    France
    Last Seen
    12-18-17 @ 02:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    4,603

    Re: Democrats eye gains in Pennsylvania trial on 'goofy' gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    That's quite by design. The last thing the founders wanted to do was create a Real Democracy.
    There is no such thing as "designed democracy".

    It is simply and naturally ONLY the citizens' vote of the majority.

    Dead simple, get it?

    The only reason some people don't believe/accept that simplicity is because they don't want to do so.

    They have some other objective in mind - like manipulating democracy to serve their own selfish purpose ...
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

  4. #14
    Guru

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    France
    Last Seen
    12-18-17 @ 02:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    4,603

    Re: Democrats eye gains in Pennsylvania trial on 'goofy' gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by holbritter View Post
    I like how your map distorts the sizes of the blue states to make them appear bigger, giving an inaccurate illusion.
    Not my design. It was taken from an presidential election that a Dem-prez won.

    More than likely, Obama.

    (Never did understand America's choice in colours. Red is politically Left, and blue typically Royal ...)
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

  5. #15
    Sage

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    In the Land of Fruits, Nuts, and Flakes
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:02 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    6,708

    Re: Democrats eye gains in Pennsylvania trial on 'goofy' gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by holbritter View Post
    I'll agree with popular vote when strict voter ID laws are enforced.
    It has always been a check on voter fraud. Regardless of how many illegal votes, you get the same number of electoral votes. In a national contest, we'd never have an undisputed winner due to fraud in the "machine state" where they brag about "delivering the vote". Literately in trunks of cars, sacks, and wheelbarrows.LOL
    I admire JFK for his most admirable achievement - bedding Marylin Monroe!
    When Democrats are out of options, they make everything about race.
    American students want to be "happy". Chinese students want to rule the world.
    It's hard to match the burning, visceral hate a liberal can bring to bear.

  6. #16
    Guru

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    France
    Last Seen
    12-18-17 @ 02:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    4,603

    Re: Democrats eye gains in Pennsylvania trial on 'goofy' gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    Because our system of governance is represented at both the state and federal level, our Founders realized that large populations of citizens could easily overrule the best interests of less-pop
    Our system of governance is one of states within a democratic republic.

    Which means that states have the right to govern matters related to their individual states.

    Voting in a presidential election is by state only as a voting-convention - that is, the best means of identifying voters who vote. The practice of voting a president is actually national in nature.

    The states have no right to either want or need to somehow "influence and control" the voting of the PotUS. The Chief Political Executive of the nation is voted nationally. Of course, that is not the way it happens, because voters cannot divorce themselves intellectually when it comes to voting for the nation's Chief Executive.

    However, "Birds of a feather flock together" and we are all animals of that nature since the dawn of time ...
    Last edited by Lafayette; 12-12-17 at 04:07 AM.
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

  7. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    USA
    Last Seen
    01-08-18 @ 05:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    722

    Re: Democrats eye gains in Pennsylvania trial on 'goofy' gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    Yeah this country should rightly be run by mob rule. What could go wrong?

    If you don't think Democrats regularly engage in gerrymandering, you're incredibly ignorant.

  8. #18
    Guru

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    France
    Last Seen
    12-18-17 @ 02:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    4,603

    Re: Democrats eye gains in Pennsylvania trial on 'goofy' gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by worksforpigs View Post
    Yeah this country should rightly be run by mob rule. What could go wrong?

    If you don't think Democrats regularly engage in gerrymandering, you're incredibly ignorant.
    Of course they do. Fight fire with fire.

    That does not make fire acceptable ...
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

  9. #19
    Wading Through Bull****
    shagg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,610

    Re: Democrats eye gains in Pennsylvania trial on 'goofy' gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by worksforpigs View Post
    Yeah this country should rightly be run by mob rule. What could go wrong?

    If you don't think Democrats regularly engage in gerrymandering, you're incredibly ignorant.
    Why does it have to be a left-right thing? It's just bad. It produces politicians who are more extreme in their views, because there is one dominant set of beliefs among their constituents, by design. With gerrymandering it's possible to take a state with 13 seats and a population that typically votes 50% party A, and end up with party A winning 3 seats in a landslide and losing the other 10 seats, all around 45% Party A to 55% Party B. Sure, 1 party is probably worse than the other, but it's all bad and needs to stop. It's at least part of the reason we're so divided, politicians can usually ignore and even insult the opposing party and still be confident in his/her gerrymandered win due to party affiliation, in fact this behavior often resonates with that dominant set of beliefs and clinches the win. And like others have mentioned, in this digital age where nothing is private and programs can draw the lines and crunch the numbers, it's much worse than any other time in history. Technology and inter-connectivity has allowed them to fine tune their technique.


    Good Read:https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/ele...n-t-it-n803051

    North Carolina is one of eight states still fighting lawsuits related to redistricting in 2011 that followed the 2010 census. The state's Republicans have been blunt about their goals, according to a transcript from one lawsuit challenging the state's most recent maps.

    "I acknowledge freely that this would be a political gerrymander, which is not against the law," state Rep. David Lewis, chairman of the House’s redistricting committee, is quoted as saying in a transcript of a committee meeting last year when the legislature was forced by courts to rework the maps again. "I propose that we draw the maps to give a partisan advantage to 10 Republicans and three Democrats because I do not believe it’s possible to draw a map with 11 Republicans and two Democrats."

    That lawsuit notes that Democrats won 51 percent of statewide votes in 2012, but Republicans won nine of 13 seats, adding a tenth seat the next year with just a slim 53 percent majority of votes.

    "The stark contrast of having a state that’s fairly evenly divided between the two parties and yet has a delegation of 10-3 Republican-Democrat just immediately raises the question of is it fair?" said Anita Earls, the executive director of the Southern Coalition for Social Justice, which represents the suit's plaintiffs.
    The party that happens to be in control at the right time can redistrict as they see fit, shamelessly undermining broad swathes of the population and misrepresenting them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jefferson Keebler Sessions
    A little Sessions magic goes a long way
    Could It Be Semantics Generating This Mess We're In?

  10. #20
    Guru

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    France
    Last Seen
    12-18-17 @ 02:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    4,603

    Re: Democrats eye gains in Pennsylvania trial on 'goofy' gerrymandering

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    The EC is the best and fairest way to elect a President. Many have whined and cried about it but that's just too bad. Their lack of understanding doesn't translate into a need to change the election process.
    Bollocks, piffle and drivel. We live on two intellectually different planets.

    So be it ...
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •