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Thread: 2017 Political Earthquake, 2018 Political Tsunami?

  1. #21
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    Re: 2017 Political Earthquake, 2018 Political Tsunami?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeAndMirrors View Post
    Well, I think the real solution there is one we should have dealt with literally decades, if not centuries, ago: removing impediments to viable third parties. And there ARE real impedements, in terms of what percentage makes them "worthy" of any sort of air time.

    Because you're right, they are very different. Hell, some libertarians are closer to to the left of the spectrum than to typical conservatives. Some are unrecognizable under either paradigm. Why is there no choice but for them to try to shove themselves into one of the main two parties?

    America is politically diverse, as much as our partisan football sometimes makes it look otherwise. We need to have the ability to elect equally diverse representation.

    Part of the reason we wound up with Trump is because of so many "never Hillary's" who had no one else to viably vote for, because the leading independent candidate put on a DNC hat since that was the only way to give himself any sort of platform. A lot of people who came down for Trump, or didn't vote at all, would have voted for Bernie instead. Hell, they would have voted for a third party, if they had any belief whatsoever that they had a shot in hell of being elected.

    And that same thing happens over and over again at all levels of our elected officials. There's no reason for it. It's long overdue to be fixed.
    I agree totally. It's difficult because both parties oppose it (of course)
    I think the best path is to try for this Instant-runoff voting for starters.

  2. #22
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    Re: 2017 Political Earthquake, 2018 Political Tsunami?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Outright hatred and loathing of Trump on the left unites the Democrat Party and last night it provided big wins in many places.

    If Trump continues to slide - and there is nothing on the horizon to say otherwise - 2018 could be a major wave election.
    The "We don't like Trump" schtick goes only so far.

    In the end, people will want to see what else the Dems have to offer. If they can't offer anything else.....

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    Re: 2017 Political Earthquake, 2018 Political Tsunami?

    Quote Originally Posted by CletusWilbury View Post
    How about if science can figure out how to transport the fetus to another woman? Would the evangelicals accept that solution? Maybe you can convince them on free trade.
    Honestly, I'm not sure what to do about the Evangelical voters. As a staunch proponent of secularism, I'm all for keeping them out of power at every turn, but I don't have any ideas for convincing them that abortion is acceptable. The awful truth about humanity is that on issues that one holds dear in their heart, information that contradicts your beliefs is often treated as an actual attack on you as an individual - it literally triggers a fight-or-flight reaction in the brain. This is why we have people who have spent years screaming at each other on the same issue for years on DP and many forums like it, especially when it comes to religion or abortion - dissent and criticism on these subjects are a challenge to the core principles that you define the world around you by, and very few people can contemplate a drastic change to their world like that. I'm included in that crowd, but I strive to be open minded as best I can.

    Long story short, I don't think American voter demographics are going to shift fast enough to either force or allow the GOP to change - the evangelicals are here to stay for at least another few generations.
    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
    Pepe Booth strikes again.

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    Re: 2017 Political Earthquake, 2018 Political Tsunami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    The "We don't like Trump" schtick goes only so far.

    In the end, people will want to see what else the Dems have to offer. If they can't offer anything else.....
    In the long term, yes. And that's been a perennial problem with Democrats for the past 30 years.

    But in the short term, no. An utterly disastrous Republican-led country is more than enough to make people vote Dem. That's exactly what happened after the Bush years (McCain lost in large part due to being considered "another Bush"), and Trump is shaping up to be considerably worse than that.

    In the short term, the repulsive statements and actions of a party playing Jeckll and Hyde with Nazis is more than enough to make people vote for the party that says, "never Nazis."

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    Re: 2017 Political Earthquake, 2018 Political Tsunami?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I understand and in most times would agree with your point. Trump is different. The normal assumptions do not apply with him.
    We'll see. It is all moot anyway unless the economy starts booming.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Re: 2017 Political Earthquake, 2018 Political Tsunami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Booth View Post
    Honestly, I'm not sure what to do about the Evangelical voters. As a staunch proponent of secularism, I'm all for keeping them out of power at every turn, but I don't have any ideas for convincing them that abortion is acceptable. The awful truth about humanity is that on issues that one holds dear in their heart, information that contradicts your beliefs is often treated as an actual attack on you as an individual - it literally triggers a fight-or-flight reaction in the brain. This is why we have people who have spent years screaming at each other on the same issue for years on DP and many forums like it, especially when it comes to religion or abortion - dissent and criticism on these subjects are a challenge to the core principles that you define the world around you by, and very few people can contemplate a drastic change to their world like that. I'm included in that crowd, but I strive to be open minded as best I can.

    Long story short, I don't think American voter demographics are going to shift fast enough to either force or allow the GOP to change - the evangelicals are here to stay for at least another few generations.
    All of this is correct. Some thoughts that I've had for a long time:
    The GOP needs to find a better approach than no compromise as policy. That leads to a serious problem within the party.
    I first heard this from Rush Limbaugh in the early 90's, push the party as far to the right and then they would win! It went against every political history I was aware of.
    Even my Dad bought into it. He was so busy reading about American heroes, he missed the political history. Similar to some of my war gaming buddies.

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    Re: 2017 Political Earthquake, 2018 Political Tsunami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    The "We don't like Trump" schtick goes only so far.

    In the end, people will want to see what else the Dems have to offer. If they can't offer anything else.....
    It works until they win, they screw up, and the process continues.

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    Re: 2017 Political Earthquake, 2018 Political Tsunami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roadvirus View Post
    The "We don't like Trump" schtick goes only so far.

    In the end, people will want to see what else the Dems have to offer. If they can't offer anything else.....
    I agree that Dems need more than just HATE TRUMP. And the ones that won yesterday had local issue positions as well.

    But HATE TRUMP is a terrific motivator for many voters and will play a role in 2018 to the advantage of the Democrats.
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    Re: 2017 Political Earthquake, 2018 Political Tsunami?

    DS hit the nail on the head about Trumpism. It's unfortunate that we still have to put up with Trump's administration, as they continue to pull all kinds unethical and/or illegal crap with our America. I could wish that the ongoing investigation would take Trump down, but I really don't like Pence either. The dems do have their numbers going for them, but it's a long time until the next presidential election. I feel everyone should be on the alert for more trickery, gerrymandering, election fraud/voter suppression, fake news, Russian help, and anything else that likely will be attempted.
    "The measure off intelligence is the ability to change." Albert Einstein

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    Re: 2017 Political Earthquake, 2018 Political Tsunami?

    Quote Originally Posted by CletusWilbury View Post
    All of this is correct. Some thoughts that I've had for a long time:
    The GOP needs to find a better approach than no compromise as policy. That leads to a serious problem within the party.
    I first heard this from Rush Limbaugh in the early 90's, push the party as far to the right and then they would win! It went against every political history I was aware of.
    Even my Dad bought into it. He was so busy reading about American heroes, he missed the political history. Similar to some of my war gaming buddies.
    It's particularly unfortunate that one of their big talking points not too long ago was "only conservatives are required to compromise." That has, and is going to continue to make any attempt to talk their base into supporting any agreements more difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
    Pepe Booth strikes again.

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