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What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss[W:152]

Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

PIPEWRENCH said:
No candidate has ever won the popular vote in recent history. With roughly half the population not voting a candidate would have to win with almost 100% of the voter turn out to even have a shot at winning the popular vote. Half the people in this country don't waste their time voting for either of the 2 party puppets.
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You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means....

Popular vote

Majority of votes cast

"More votes than half the total number of Americans with the right to vote" is different....
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

jimbo said:
It does change the party in power however.
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Actually the EC mechanism enabled that to happen despite the will of the people seeing it the other way.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
When you have a mechanism that ignores the will of the American people, that can sometimes happen regardless of how strong the economy is.
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Oh looky over here, not there. I lost my last argument. Lets move on to the Eevil EC.

The American people spoke. Some spoke louder than others.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

ttwtt78640 said:
What of those that do work but for very low wages and/or the minimum required 20 hours/week - the vast majority of "safety net" recipients? That was mostly what I was addressing - low wages, made possible by using immigrant labor (and the "safety net"), drive up the costs for all by (ever?) increased taxation to support "safety net" spending used to supplement those with lower incomes. Your savings on lettuce, restaurant meals and hotel stays are cancelled (and possibly exceeded) by higher taxation to support the "safety net".
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What you are describing sounds a great deal like many Wal Mart workers.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

Kobie said:
Apparently pointing out that some people have unreasonable desires or expectations is "bigotry."
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Apparently so.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
Are you criticizing me or Trump?
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I believe I quoted you. I don't believe President Trump is part of this forum.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

jimbo said:
Oh looky over here, not there. I lost my last argument. Lets move on to the Eevil EC.

The American people spoke. Some spoke louder than others.
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What is factually wrong with the statement of fact I made that you pretended you were replying to?
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

jimbo said:
I believe I quoted you. I don't believe President Trump is part of this forum.
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Fine. Your reply had nothing to do with the post from me you quoted and were pretending to be replying to. It was simply a springboard for you to say something you wanted to get off your chest.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
Actually the EC mechanism enabled that to happen despite the will of the people seeing it the other way.
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Oh looky over here, not there. I lost my last argument. Lets move on to the Eevil EC.

Blatantly lifted from myself.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
You and I live in two very very different worlds.

The article discussed the price of apples in Washington.





Tell me about landscape workers in Michigan or New York or Ohio or Florida or California. I bet their wages are a whole lot more than the under ten percent they claimed labor ate up in the cost of those apples.
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So economics works differently in different areas? Is that what you're really saying? Guess we should just have schools that teach economics only teach based on specific areas?

The use of apples was an example. Just like your "lettuce" comment was just an example. You're reaching Haymarket.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

BadK9 said:
Swing voters in the swing states that voted for Obama twice switched to Trump in 16'. Why? One, the Obama economy was abysmal. You disagree? Fine. Then why did all those voters in the midwest and Florida vote for Trump instead of Hillary IF, as you allege, the economy was just humming along just fine? Two, Trump promised (and has delivered) on putting Americans FIRST, instead of LAST, for a change.

The Democratic Party used to be known as the party for the average working American. That is no longer the case.
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In a nutshell, the Democrats have insulted the intelligence of the average American who takes care of his/her family, embraces tried and true values of God, family, community, and/or country. We have had dozens of unacceptable social concepts forced down our throats, been told what speech and/or beliefs are acceptable if one does not wish to be economically or physically punished or forbidden from participating. And we have constantly been told how racist, bigoted, sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic, greedy, anti-science, inhumane we are if we don't embrace their definition of acceptable speech and/or beliefs.

The Democrats ran a candidate who not only was highly suspect in her motives and ethics while serving in public office while delivering an amazing lack of achievement most of her life and who treated us as Democrats treat us. And she offered us nothing more than more of the same.

So, we chose and elected into office a candidate who is neither partisan nor ideologue, who understood and acknowledged what we are feeling and what we want, who convinced us he really does want to fix problems and accomplish good things for America/Americans, and who respected and understood us and gave us credit for some common sense.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

Kal'Stang said:
Which one?
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Good Grief.

Although it seems to not actually be a town. Just a name on the map, but it sure caught my eye.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

Kal'Stang said:
So economics works differently in different areas? Is that what you're really saying? Guess we should just have schools that teach economics only teach based on specific areas?

The use of apples was an example. Just like your "lettuce" comment was just an example. You're reaching Haymarket.
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The economics of landscape are not necessarily the economics of apple growing regarding labor costs. Or do you believe that there is a fixed percentage of labor cost that applies to all goods and services?
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

rocket88 said:
And that hasn't really changed much over the past few years, so it's silly to say that's why Trump won.
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Trump won because traditional blue collar perhaps former union members in industrial states switched votes, and people in those state who would have vote democrat stayed home
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
What is factually wrong with the statement of fact I made that you pretended you were replying to?
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Nothing really. Hillary's loss was obviously the fault of The Russkies, Comey. The EC. The idiots.

No way, no how could i have been the fault of a terrible candidate with a terrible message.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

calamity said:
Good Grief.

Although it seems to not actually be a town. Just a name on the map, but it sure caught my eye.
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Ah, yeah, its no longer a town. Hasn't been for a long time. Not even sure why its still on maps. There used to be a bar there that served the best ribs I've ever eaten in my entire life. Unfortunately the people that owned that bar and served those ribs sold the place. Not even sure if its still open to be honest. I believe that was the last business that was open in that area also.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

BadK9 said:
And you're a "centrist"? :lol:
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Actually, he is. Since the election of Trump, we have been seeing the more liberal side of him, but you should not take that as meaning he has no right leaning positions
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

jimbo said:
Nothing really. Hillary's loss was obviously the fault of The Russkies, Comey. The EC. The idiots.

No way, no how could i have been the fault of a terrible candidate with a terrible message.
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Do you operate under the belief that events in a campaign have no impact on votes or voters decisions? Unless you do operate under that delusion, I would hope well would be willing to admit that there were many factors leading to the results of the campaign and many factors impacting who won the EC and who lost the EC.

Yes, Clinton has a lot to be blamed for and made many bad decisions. That is without doubt. And yes, Comey impacted the election at a crucial time when ten to 15 million votes were cast... and yes Trump invoked wikileaks from the Russian collision over 160 times in the last month of the campaign and yes the mechanism of the EC permitted somebody to win office despite over 2.8 million MORE voters picking the other candidate over the EC winner.

Those are all factors.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
The economics of landscape are not necessarily the economics of apple growing regarding labor costs. Or do you believe that there is a fixed percentage of labor cost that applies to all goods and services?
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Of course there isn't fixed percentage of labor costs. But economics still works the same whether you live in a city or in farming areas. Which means that the economics for agriculture works the same as it does in landscaping, construction, maid services etc etc etc. Which means you can use the same model across all sectors of work. Different values from one area to another, such as labor costs, does not change the model used to determine facts and statistics.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
Do you think the American people want to pay triple for a head of lettuce since it is picked by an American citizen getting $20 per hour plus benefits?
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Do you apply that same reasoning to people who advocate a $15 minimum wage because the argument is identical.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

Kal'Stang said:
Of course there isn't fixed percentage of labor costs. But economics still works the same whether you live in a city or in farming areas. Which means that the economics for agriculture works the same as it does in landscaping, construction, maid services etc etc etc. Which means you can use the same model across all sectors of work. Different values from one area to another, such as labor costs, does not change the model used to determine facts and statistics.
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So can you then tell me why there is such a large percentage of foreign immigrant labor in such American sectors as hotel maids, landscape workers, food harvesting and other such areas of the economy?
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

Fletch said:
Do you apply that same reasoning to people who advocate a $15 minimum wage because the argument is identical.
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I would concede readily that if a company - say McDonalds is paying a nine dollar wage and they have to change it to a $15 dollar wage, that there will be an increase in their costs and those will probably passed on to the consumer.

The question then becomes if we as a larger society of people want that or not?
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
Can you provide examples of jobs immigrants are taking from native born Americans?
BadK9 said:
I could, but I doubt you're open to the concept that immigration should be based on what's best for the average American, as opposed to what's best for a foreigner that wants to live here.
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That's a cop-out answer. I don't think that you can provide any examples.

The reality is that the unemployment rate has been lower than 5% for more than a year. 5% unemployment has been considered the benchmark for full-employment. What you are telling everyone is that there is a big problem with immigrants taking the jobs of native born Americans, in an economy that has little unemployment. That makes no sense.

What Trump is good at doing is making a segment of the population think there are problems that just do not exist. He also did that with crime -- perpetuating the myth that cities are crime havens. They aren't. Most cities have crime rates near 30 year lows. There is also no problem with immigrants taking native jobs -- unless you cut lawns for a living or work washing dishes in the back of restaurants.

May I also point out the hypocrisy:
Trump's Private Clubs In Florida Are Seeking Visas For Foreign Workers
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

MTAtech said:
That's a cop-out answer. I don't think that you can provide any examples.

The reality is that the unemployment rate has been lower than 5% for more than a year. 5% unemployment has been considered the benchmark for full-employment. What you are telling everyone is that there is a big problem with immigrants taking the jobs of native born Americans, in an economy that has little unemployment. That makes no sense.

What Trump is good at doing is making a segment of the population think there are problems that just do not exist. He also did that with crime -- perpetuating the myth that cities are crime havens. They aren't. Most cities have crime rates near 30 year lows. There is also no problem with immigrants taking native jobs -- unless you cut lawns for a living or work washing dishes in the back of restaurants.

May I also point out the hypocrisy:
Trump's Private Clubs In Florida Are Seeking Visas For Foreign Workers
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You raise many good points.

If full employment is 5% unemployment rate, It is indeed a sad commentary on America and some of our people that 5% of adults of working age are simply unable to do any job. But that is reality just the same. And that is where immigrants and jobs fill that gap.
 
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