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What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss[W:152]

Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

faithful_servant said:
..and you back your bigotry by posting a bigoted article... smart move...
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lol...the article was anything but bigoted. Perhaps you should examine it. If you can.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
Do you think the American people want to pay triple for a head of lettuce since it is picked by an American citizen getting $20 per hour plus benefits?

Are Americans willing to double the cost of a meal if it is prepared and cooked by an all American wait and kitchen staff getting those wages and benefits?

What about getting your law mowed or your sheets changed at a hotel or that nanny?

Sure, I will concede that there are some jobs immigrants take that Americans would be doing. No problem there. I admit that. But the Demons Trump rails against - the people coming over the Mexican border - are the people who work in kitchens or in landscape or do day work for low wages that are not going to be done by Americans at those same wages nor is American business ready to radically change its business model to change the wage and benefit scale making immigrants irrelevant to them.
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Your claims here has been debunked many times.

First the price for food would not "triple" or even double if citizens or legal immigrants did the work. Seattle Times: Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices

Second the claim that certain jobs "are not going to be done by Americans" is BS also. Easily proved by the fact that you won't find a single job out there that is done entirely by illegal aliens.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

polgara said:
Greetings, haymarket. :2wave:

Greetings Polgara. :2wave:

With the millions of immigrants that have already arrived, shouldn't there be sufficient numbers already here that are willing to work? :shock:
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yes -and many do.

My solution for immigration problems is very very simple and require NO wall at all. Since people come here for jobs and money, simply have a law which fines any employer who employs an illegal immigrant a hefty amount - say $10 grand per day - and enforce it strictly and offer rewards of 15% to people who report such violations - and I bet the problem goes away fast when the incentive is no longer there.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

humbolt said:
Thank you. I'm not sure why you asked the question when you already knew the answer. It's relatively common knowledge. No change in business models is required. Those businesses that hire illegal immigrants should be heavily fined. If profit margins are insufficient for those who employ legal immigrants and Americans, they're in the wrong business.
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Well we agree on something - the fine on business hiring illegals.

My solution for immigration problems is very very simple and require NO wall at all. Since people come here for jobs and money, simply have a law which fines any employer who employs an illegal immigrant a hefty amount - say $10 grand per day - and enforce it strictly and offer rewards of 15% to people who report such violations - and I bet the problem goes away fast when the incentive is no longer there.

Then we can face the consequences and see if Americans are willing to do those bottom of the rung jobs and if employers are willing to raise wages to employ them and if American consumers are willing to pony up for both.

And I do think that is a change in the business model.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

Kal'Stang said:
Your claims here has been debunked many times.

First the price for food would not "triple" or even double if citizens or legal immigrants did the work. Seattle Times: Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices

Second the claim that certain jobs "are not going to be done by Americans" is BS also. Easily proved by the fact that you won't find a single job out there that is done entirely by illegal aliens.
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The same folks who argued that the 15 dollar minimum wouldn't raises prices at the greasy spoons, are the same hypocrites that claim prices will go up because of the lack of legal/illegal immigrants.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

faithful_servant said:
..and adding to the TDS, we get some good old fashioned liberal bigotry.
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That makes no sense on any level in any way.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

ttwtt78640 said:
Hmm... again we see folks that like pressure to keep wages low but see no problem with paying US folks not to work to support themselves. If we expect low skilled, barely educated, non-English speaking immigrant folks to support themselves and their dependents working low wage jobs without benefit of the "safety net" then why not apply that same expectation to US citizens? The main (only?) reason that we need ever more immigrants is that the next generation of those immigrants, who are US citizens, can (and do?) take advantage of the "safety net" alternative to taking those 'job's that US citizens won't do'.
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Agreed. I have long been against welfare payments to support able bodied people who will not work.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

Kal'Stang said:
Your claims here has been debunked many times.

First the price for food would not "triple" or even double if citizens or legal immigrants did the work. Seattle Times: Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices

Second the claim that certain jobs "are not going to be done by Americans" is BS also. Easily proved by the fact that you won't find a single job out there that is done entirely by illegal aliens.
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Get in a car and go around my subdivision and watch the crews doing landscape and you will be lucky to find an American in the bunch. And its not just appearances as I have attempted to talk to some and all you get is no nabla Englase.

I travel a lot and if you go to New York or California or Florida or Texas its hard to find a hotel maid who is not foreign. So spare me your debunking.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

RetiredUSN said:
The same folks who argued that the 15 dollar minimum wouldn't raises prices at the greasy spoons, are the same hypocrites that claim prices will go up because of the lack of legal/illegal immigrants.
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I would hope we all can agree - both right and left and middle - that since wages are a big part of any business cost - raising wages significantly would indeed raise the cost of doing business.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
Get in a car and go around my subdivision and watch the crews doing landscape and you will be lucky to find an American in the bunch. And its not just appearances as I have attempted to talk to some and all you get is no nabla Englase.

I travel a lot and if you go to New York or California or Florida or Texas its hard to find a hotel maid who is not foreign. So spare me your debunking.
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Sorry but statistics and facts outweigh your personal experiences. You ignoring them does not change them either.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

Kal'Stang said:
Sorry but statistics and facts outweigh your personal experiences. You ignoring them does not change them either.
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I guess when you live in Idaho, immigration and the jobs they perform look a lot different than in places where lots of people really live and work and your experiences are in a different world altogether.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
I guess when you live in Idaho, immigration and the jobs they perform look a lot different than in places where lots of people really live and work and your experiences are in a different world altogether.
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OMG. I did not notice that before. It certainly explains much.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
I guess when you live in Idaho, immigration and the jobs they perform look a lot different than in places where lots of people really live and work and your experiences are in a different world altogether.
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Except of course I gave you a link which had nothing to do with Idaho and had information from areas outside of Idaho and was even from a left leaning news site. Like I said, facts and statistics outweigh your personal anecdotes.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
That makes no sense on any level in any way.
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Apparently pointing out that some people have unreasonable desires or expectations is "bigotry."
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
Agreed. I have long been against welfare payments to support able bodied people who will not work.
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What of those that do work but for very low wages and/or the minimum required 20 hours/week - the vast majority of "safety net" recipients? That was mostly what I was addressing - low wages, made possible by using immigrant labor (and the "safety net"), drive up the costs for all by (ever?) increased taxation to support "safety net" spending used to supplement those with lower incomes. Your savings on lettuce, restaurant meals and hotel stays are cancelled (and possibly exceeded) by higher taxation to support the "safety net".
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

calamity said:
OMG. I did not notice that before. It certainly explains much.
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FYI, living in Idaho does not equal being from Idaho. I've actually lived in many states. From Idaho to South Carolina to Washington and Oregon and many other states in between. Hate to say it but any preconceptions that you may have about Idaho is not relevant to me. ;)
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

Kal'Stang said:
FYI, living in Idaho does not equal being from Idaho. I've actually lived in many states. From Idaho to South Carolina to Washington and Oregon and many other states in between. Hate to say it but any preconceptions that you may have about Idaho is not relevant to me. ;)
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I like the mountains there. Sawtooth range, I believe. It's been a while since I visited--20 years, at least.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

calamity said:
Trump is very good at fooling idiots.
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Calling half the voters idiots and then expecting them to vote your way next time around works about as well as calling them deplorables.

A platform of Trump bad, Trump voters worse, we good, will certainly gain political power in '18, '20, and beyond.
 
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Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

calamity said:
I like the mountains there. Sawtooth range, I believe. It's been a while since I visited--20 years, at least.
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The scenery is one of the main reasons that I live in Idaho. I simply cannot get enough of mountains. However I don't live near the Sawtooth range. I live far up north near the Canadian border.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
First of all, the economy in 2016 was good by almost all measures. But a sector of America - largely the undereducated and those not able to adapt to a computer technology economy - feel left out and see their way of life declining and fear for themselves and their children. Trump appealed to them as their savior.

Second, the real challenge of this century is what to do with large numbers of people who are simply not needed to be producers in this new economy. Solve that problem and you go a long way to solving our political problems as well.

And Trump has not the foggiest idea how to do that. The idea that coal is coming back in beyond stupid. Trump cannot run back the clock to the 1940's.
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"Your attitude sucks. Needs adjusting."

Blatantly lifted from another poster. True thoughts deserve repeating.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

Kal'Stang said:
Except of course I gave you a link which had nothing to do with Idaho and had information from areas outside of Idaho and was even from a left leaning news site. Like I said, facts and statistics outweigh your personal anecdotes.
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You and I live in two very very different worlds.

The article discussed the price of apples in Washington.


At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower’s other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer’s markup.
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Tell me about landscape workers in Michigan or New York or Ohio or Florida or California. I bet their wages are a whole lot more than the under ten percent they claimed labor ate up in the cost of those apples.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

Kal'Stang said:
The scenery is one of the main reasons that I live in Idaho. I simply cannot get enough of mountains. However I don't live near the Sawtooth range. I live far up north near the Canadian border.
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Ah, near what would have to be my favorite town in all the land, Good Grief. :lol:
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

haymarket said:
The opinion of those swing voters does not change the reality of a strong economy by almost every measure.
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It does change the party in power however.
 
Re: What liberals are unwilling to acknowledge regarding Hillary's loss

jimbo said:
"Your attitude sucks. Needs adjusting."

Blatantly lifted from another poster. True thoughts deserve repeating.
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Are you criticizing me or Trump?
 
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