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LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally voting

Lafayette

Lafayette

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LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally voting and swinging elections - excerpt:
Part of the Republican-led crackdown on supposed voter fraud, battles over measures to guard against noncitizen voters have percolated for years in election offices, state legislatures and federal courtrooms.

Records in these fights show that small numbers of noncitizens do end up registered, and a few have cast votes. However, no one has uncovered evidence of thousands of noncitizen voters — and no evidence has emerged to support Trump’s theory of a coordinated effort to throw an election by stuffing the voting rolls with ineligible immigrants.

“What we have seen are errors,” said Dale Ho, director of the voting rights project of the American Civil Liberties Union. “There’s not a horde of people trying to break into this country so they can vote.”

Past claims that large numbers of ineligible noncitizens are lurking on the voting rolls have fizzled. In 2012, Florida’s Republican governor, Rick Scott, pushed for a purge of noncitizen voters. An initial list of 180,000 names was whittled to 2,600, then sent to county election supervisors to check. But the smaller list also turned out to be filled with errors, and in the end, only 85 people were removed from the rolls.
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Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Hawkeye10 said:
I am not convinced that anyone has looked, so saying that nothing has been found means little to nothing.
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That's the burden of proof for conspiracy theories: A lack of evidence is evidence.
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

How can there be evidence that either shows it DOES exist or even that it DOES NOT exist when there is no way to discover the truth due to not requiring any ID, and how some states do with voting by mail?

Seriously?

This is like saying there is no evidence that the grass is growing if we don't ever look at the grass. Of course it doesn't exist if you can't see it because you're not looking. This reminds me of the old saying, "it isn't a crime if you don't get caught."
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Phys251 said:
That's the burden of proof for conspiracy theories: A lack of evidence is evidence.
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Except when it applies to Trump. You can't presume to know what people might do when citizens tell them "no one will know, and no one will care", coulped with the "By any means necessary" credo of the left.

Bottom line: we as voters have a right to make our vote count and not have it cancelled out by an illegal vote. .
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Hawkeye10 said:
I am not convinced that anyone has looked, so saying that nothing has been found means little to nothing.



View attachment 67218512
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Beaudreaux said:
How can there be evidence that either shows it DOES exist or even that it DOES NOT exist when there is no way to discover the truth due to not requiring any ID, and how some states do with voting by mail?

Seriously?

This is like saying there is no evidence that the grass is growing if we don't ever look at the grass. Of course it doesn't exist if you can't see it because you're not looking. This reminds me of the old saying, "it isn't a crime if you don't get caught."
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Did you guys read the quote in the OP? Someone claimed to have 180,000 names and the "proof" fell down all the way to 85.

Tell me, would you have the same "a meaningful impact is to be assumed without evidence" attitude when it comes to gun control?
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Phys251 said:
That's the burden of proof for conspiracy theories: A lack of evidence is evidence.
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Nope, this is voting, super important to get right, those who run the system should be checking on a regular basis to make sure that only citizens vote, if they are not then they have betrayed us. What we need now is outside experts that most can trust to look at for instance all of california in the last election, and for them to tell us how many of those voters should not have voted. My best guess is that it was around 800,000 for the nation. .

We need to know.
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Hawkeye10 said:
Nope, this is voting, super important to get right, those who run the system should be checking on a regular basis to make sure that only citizens vote, if they are not then they have betrayed us. What we need now is outside experts that most can trust to look at for instance all of california in the last election, and for them to tell us how many of those voters should not have voted. My best guess is that it was around 800,000 for the nation. .

We need to know.
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The voter fraud myth is one of the biggest lies put forth by the Right. They know it's a lie yet repeatedly double down on it.
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

The fact remains without ID there is no way to determine if there is voter fraud or not. The democrats seem very afraid of ID which would do nothing but make sure those that are supposed to vote are the only ones voting. As far as these millions and millions of people without ID maybe it is time we found out who they are and get them the ID the need. I do know of a lot of people who do not want to be identified such as criminals, illegal aliens, spies, terrorist, drug dealers, and a host of other malcontents.
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Phys251 said:
The voter fraud myth is one of the biggest lies put forth by the Right. They know it's a lie yet repeatedly double down on it.
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Once those who run the systems have proven that they do their jobs correctly then we can move on.

Their say so is most certainly not good enough.
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Absentglare said:
Did you guys read the quote in the OP? Someone claimed to have 180,000 names and the "proof" fell down all the way to 85.

Tell me, would you have the same "a meaningful impact is to be assumed without evidence" attitude when it comes to gun control?
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Care to stand up a strawman? WTF does gun control have to do with voting? You have to have an ID to buy a gun, but not vote. You have to prove that you're not a felon to buy a gun, but not to vote in many states. You have to ask permission of the government to buy a gun, but not to vote.

Which act is more dangerous to our nation? Buying a gun that a person has had to jump through hoops to get approval from the government? Or voting where no one asks you to prove who you are or that you're even a citizen of this country?

You guys think Russia is a danger to our voting system?

I find it ironic as hell that some folks raise sand about Russia tampering with our elections and those same people emphatically declare that there's no way that illegal votes can even be cast in a way to sway an election.
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Beaudreaux said:
Care to stand up a strawman? WTF does gun control have to do with voting? You have to have an ID to buy a gun, but not vote. You have to prove that you're not a felon to buy a gun, but not to vote in many states. You have to ask permission of the government to buy a gun, but not to vote.

Which act is more dangerous to our nation? Buying a gun that a person has had to jump through hoops to get approval from the government? Or voting where no one asks you to prove who you are or that you're even a citizen of this country?

You guys think Russia is a danger to our voting system?

I find it ironic as hell that some folks raise sand about Russia tampering with our elections and those same people emphatically declare that there's no way that illegal votes can even be cast in a way to sway an election.
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I didn't mention Russia.

I don't believe the claims that millions of illegals voted. Why would they bother? What does a single vote buy them that's worth risking 10 years in prison?

Further, there's basically no evidence for the claim. A Republican governor made the best case he could, on an alleged 180,000 illegally registered voters: but it turns out there were only 85 or so. So, almost no evidence.
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Beaudreaux said:
Care to stand up a strawman? WTF does gun control have to do with voting? You have to have an ID to buy a gun, but not vote. You have to prove that you're not a felon to buy a gun, but not to vote in many states. You have to ask permission of the government to buy a gun, but not to vote.

Which act is more dangerous to our nation? Buying a gun that a person has had to jump through hoops to get approval from the government? Or voting where no one asks you to prove who you are or that you're even a citizen of this country?

You guys think Russia is a danger to our voting system?

I find it ironic as hell that some folks raise sand about Russia tampering with our elections and those same people emphatically declare that there's no way that illegal votes can even be cast in a way to sway an election.
Click to expand...

They seem to be going with the mind control argument...people legally showed up to vote but they did not have possession of their minds, Putin did...best as I understand it.
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Absentglare said:
I didn't mention Russia.

I don't believe the claims that millions of illegals voted. Why would they bother? What does a single vote buy them that's worth risking 10 years in prison?

Further, there's basically no evidence for the claim. A Republican governor made the best case he could, on an alleged 180,000 illegally registered voters: but it turns out there were only 85 or so. So, almost no evidence.
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You haven't mentioned Russia on this forum since the 2016 primary season... at all? Interesting.

As for the rest of the post, it's just deflection from your comment about gun control.
 
Beaudreaux said:
You haven't mentioned Russia on this forum since the 2016 primary season... at all? Interesting.

As for the rest of the post, it's just deflection from your comment about gun control.
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That's not what i said.

Please look at my point:

Absentglare said:
Did you guys read the quote in the OP? Someone claimed to have 180,000 names and the "proof" fell down all the way to 85.

Tell me, would you have the same "a meaningful impact is to be assumed without evidence" attitude when it comes to gun control?
Click to expand...

Absentglare said:
I didn't mention Russia.

I don't believe the claims that millions of illegals voted. Why would they bother? What does a single vote buy them that's worth risking 10 years in prison?

Further, there's basically no evidence for the claim. A Republican governor made the best case he could, on an alleged 180,000 illegally registered voters: but it turns out there were only 85 or so. So, almost no evidence.
Click to expand...

Why should we be concerned about an unlikely issue that we lack any meaningful evidence of?
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Absentglare said:
That's not what i said.

Please look at my point:





Why should we be concerned about an unlikely issue that we lack any meaningful evidence of?
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Because running the voting right is one of the most important tasks in a democratic society, those who run the system have an obligation to go above and beyond to make sure they are doing it correctly, no proof that they are doing it wrong is required to check, they should be constantly checking regardless.
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Hawkeye10 said:
I am not convinced that anyone has looked, so saying that nothing has been found means little to nothing.
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Do you KNOW how to make an internet search for factual evidence in the matter? No?

Then I suggest you learn.

The Replicant Yelling 'n Cursing about Monumental Voter Fraud is highly specific in nature and Never Massive. There is no evidence whatsoever that it affects elections on an other than highly local scale, and none in the least for Presidential voting.

Donald Dork - already in deep-sneakers in terms of presidential credibility - is up to his old tricks of "belittling the enemy" with mindless, unsubstantiatable remarks. He is attempting drastically to explain his record-breaking LOSS (2%!) in the popular vote last November with a falsehood ... !
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Lafayette said:
Do you KNOW how to make an internet search for factual evidence in the matter? No?

Then I suggest you learn.

The Replicant Yelling 'n Cursing about Monumental Voter Fraud is highly specific in nature and Never Massive. There is no evidence whatsoever that it affects elections on an other than highly local scale, and none in the least for Presidential voting.

Donald Dork - already in deep-sneakers in terms of presidential credibility - is up to his old tricks of "belittling the enemy" with mindless, unsubstantiatable remarks. He is attempting drastically to explain his record-breaking LOSS (2%!) in the popular vote last November with a falsehood ... !
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OPEN YOUR EARS!

I am not a republican, I am not a conservative, I am not only not partisan in the common sense I despise the partisans....I accuse them of goofing off rather than working.....I am the keeper of my own mind, a guy who calls himself a Zen Socialist.

And please try to be nicer, I never did anything to you.
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY!

Hawkeye10 said:
Once those who run the systems have proven that they do their jobs correctly then we can move on.

Their say so is most certainly not good enough.
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So, I have to prove that I am honest rather you having to prove that I committed a crime.

Aint the way justice works in America* ...

*"Innocent until proven guilty". Show me the crime! Show me the proof of who-done-it!
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

OPEN YOUR EYES!

Hawkeye10 said:
OPEN YOUR EARS!I am not a republican, I am not a conservative, I am not only not partisan in the common sense I despise the partisans....I accuse them of goofing off rather than working.....I am the keeper of my own mind, a guy who calls himself a Zen Socialist.

And please try to be nicer, I never did anything to you.
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I could really give a damn about what label you want to put on yourself.

Your opinions are Fantasies, and I enjoy immensely showing underlying falsehoods whether on the Right or Left!

France has a very heavy contingent of Socialist voters. I enjoy immensely taking the "mickey out of them" in exactly the same manner I do here on the Right. With the statistical facts - which politicians worldwide refuse to acknowledge because they are driven by party-platforms that are wholly unsubstantiated by fact and especially as regards the market-economy.

Which in France is treated for milking as a cash-cow on the Left that is likely to take a drubbing in the upcoming elections. This last Socialist president (Hollande) was a complete and utter failure having not had the courage to change underlying regulatory factors that are the cause of France's systemic High Unemployment.

See? I can pee on both sides of the aisle - Left & Right! Why?

Because the truth is nearly always somewhere in-between the two extremes on either side ...
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Hawkeye10 said:
Because running the voting right is one of the most important tasks in a democratic society, those who run the system have an obligation to go above and beyond to make sure they are doing it correctly, no proof that they are doing it wrong is required to check, they should be constantly checking regardless.
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... they do constantly check. Do you realize how much bigger of a problem mail-in voter fraud is than in-person voter fraud? Turns out people are much more likely to risk 10 years in prison by mail rather than in person, since, you know, it's harder to catch someone who simply mailed a letter. They only want to make in-person voting more difficult. They don't want to address voter fraud because that would interfere with military mail-in votes which are, guess what, republican.
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Hawkeye10 said:
Nope, this is voting, super important to get right, those who run the system should be checking on a regular basis to make sure that only citizens vote, if they are not then they have betrayed us.
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Wow. Use hyperbole much?

See, here's the thing. If voting is "super important," then we need to ensure that policies and actions that deal with fraud do not disenfranchise voters. Catching 80 people who committed voter fraud doesn't help anyone, if it prevents 10,000 legitimate voters from being able to vote. That is, to put it mildly, counter-productive.

And again, people have tried for YEARS to find voter fraud -- and aren't finding it. Most cases are US citizens who don't realize that they are limited to voting in one jurisdiction. E.g. they have homes in 2 different counties, and want to vote in local elections in both counties.

So no, we don't need to hire hordes of "outside experts," we don't need to spend billions looking for voter fraud, we don't need to vilify low-income voters in the name of combatting fraud. It isn't happening. It demonstrably isn't happening. So let the state election boards do their work, and stop foaming at the mouth over it.
 
Re: LA Times: No, there is no evidence that thousands of noncitizens are illegally vo

Hawkeye10 said:
Nope, this is voting, super important to get right, those who run the system should be checking on a regular basis to make sure that only citizens vote, if they are not then they have betrayed us. What we need now is outside experts that most can trust to look at for instance all of california in the last election, and for them to tell us how many of those voters should not have voted. My best guess is that it was around 800,000 for the nation. .

We need to know.
Click to expand...

I have it on absolutely unimpeachable authority that 125,983,045 illegals voted in the last election, and they all voted for Trump, no exceptions.
 
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