Gerrymandering should be outlawed and the Electoral College repealed

Lafayette said:

From here: New Report: Extreme Partisan Maps Account for 16-17 Republican Seats in Congress

Excerpt:


We just elected a PotUS who lost the popular-vote by a significantly large margin (2%), the sixth time in the nation's history when the popular-vote has been overturned. This is a travesty of democratic justice. Trump was elected by an Electoral College which is non-proportional; that is, based upon "one winner takes all, despite the respective popular-vote amounts".

Yes, everybody has an excuse for what has been happening in American politics since the 14th Amendment was instituted in 1803 and gerrymandering began in the very beginning of the nation (but earned its name in 1812 in Boston). A just nation needs neither if it believes in electoral voting that is fair and honest - one person, one vote and only the total determines the elected winner.

Both mechanisms, along with unlimited money donations, have corrupted American democracy; and in this latest election allowed a wholly inept PotUS to inhabit the White House.

The US is on the wrong path for as long as Americans refuse to take action, by fixing the nation's archaic electioneering mechanism ...

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The Senate isnt Gerrymandered and niether are Governor races

Since 2010, the Democrats have lost over 900 State legislator seats, 14 Governor races, the House Majority and the Senate majority and finally the WH.

Oh and my State, Texas ( Yaaay Texas !!! ) got redder.

No, its not because of Gerrymandering, and yes its because of Obama's disastrous agenda and legacy.

Ive always said the fastest way to grow the Conservative base is to subject people to the consequences of Liberalism. Thats what happened over the last 8 years

Kal'Stang said:

What France is does not equal what the US is.

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I beg to differ. The above notion was pre-WW2.

Nowadays, with our globally interconnected planet, there are comparisons worth considering.

Why should Europeans enjoy National Perquisites like Nearly Free Health care, whilst Americans pay through the nose:


Or very low cost Post-secondary Education costs, whilst Americans do not? See Tertiary-education Costs by country at this OECD site here. Scroll down to the infographic and note how US tertiary-education costs are the third highest of all OECD countries.

Huh? Tell me why. "Because that's the way the cookie crumbles?"

Or some other such nonsense? Ours is the only "developed" nation on earth that allows both Tertiary Education and Health Care without total or near-total government assistance.

Which is why some people call that "backwards", because both are not like widgets that a country can crank out with sophisticated automation techniques. They are both highly personal services that must be tailored to the individual, because the alternative is even worst cost-wise as shown in the above infographics ...

Lafayette said:

I keep telling you to get a dictionary. The popular-vote is "an act of voting by the electorate of a country or area, and thus the choice expressed through the votes cast by said electorate".

So, yes, when an electoral-college "overturns" the popular-vote then democracy has failed. The popular-vote, like it or not, is the only real means of voting in a democracy.

And, if you don't like that an entire state votes popularly (for instance) for an ex Klu-Klux-Klan leader who wins, then that's just too bad. Such is the voice-of-the-people in a genuine democracy.

Like it or not. I'm not saying its infallible - nonetheless it is more fair than a winner-take-all electoral-college "vote" ...

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Words have meaning, and the word "overturned" doesn't apply in this case. The United States is not a democracy, we've never been a democracy. The electoral college serves a purpose, and it worked exactly as designed in this case. I know you libs would love for the east and west coast liberal enclaves to rule the nation, but that's not how it works. Thank God.

countryboy said:

Words have meaning, and the word "overturned" doesn't apply in this case. The United States is not a democracy, we've never been a democracy. The electoral college serves a purpose, and it worked exactly as designed in this case. I know you libs would love for the east and west coast liberal enclaves to rule the nation, but that's not how it works.

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Hopeless. I will not lower myself to respond to such an imbecility.

Yet another one who never took a course in Civics ...

Lafayette said:

Hopeless. I will not lower myself to respond to such an imbecility.

Yet another one who never took a course in Civics ...

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Then perhaps you should take one. :shrug:

The reason you "will not lower myself to respond to such an imbecility", is you cannot refute anything I said.

Lafayette said:

I beg to differ. The above notion was pre-WW2.

Nowadays, with our globally interconnected planet, there are comparisons worth considering.

Why should Europeans enjoy National Perquisites like Nearly Free Health care, whilst Americans pay through the nose:

Or very low cost Post-secondary Education costs, whilst Americans do not? See Tertiary-education Costs by country at this OECD site here. Scroll down to the infographic and note how US tertiary-education costs are the third highest of all OECD countries.

Huh? Tell me why. "Because that's the way the cookie crumbles?"

Or some other such nonsense? Ours is the only "developed" nation on earth that allows both Tertiary Education and Health Care without total or near-total government assistance.

Which is why some people call that "backwards", because both are not like widgets that a country can crank out with sophisticated automation techniques. They are both highly personal services that must be tailored to the individual, because the alternative is even worst cost-wise as shown in the above infographics ...

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The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence mentality. Turns out that when you get to that other side of the fence, the grass is just as brown as it was on the side you were on.

Tell me, what are the costs of all those things that you mentioned? And I'm not just talking about monetarily. Though that in itself shows a difference. The taxes over there are far higher than the US's which has the lowest tax rate among the developed countries out there. Personal income tax rate in the US goes as high as 39%. (If you go into effective tax rate its even lower.) France is 50%. I am also talking about personal liberties, which the US is far superior in that than in France.

You want to compare? Fine. For every positive that you find and show I can show a negative. And visa versa. Which is why comparing the two countries is a false equivalency argument. They are not the same. Different cultures, different outlooks on life, different system of government. Etc etc etc. What's good for them, does not mean it will be good for us. And visa versa.

LOOK AT WHAT YOU GET FOR THE MONEY!

Kal'Stang said:

Tell me, what are the costs of all those things that you mentioned? And I'm not just talking about monetarily. Though that in itself shows a difference. The taxes over there are far higher than the US's which has the lowest tax rate among the developed countries out there. Personal income tax rate in the US goes as high as 39%. (If you go into effective tax rate its even lower.) France is 50%. I am also talking about personal liberties, which the US is far superior in that than in France.

You want to compare? Fine. For every positive that you find and show I can show a negative. And visa versa. Which is why comparing the two countries is a false equivalency argument.

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False equivalency, me arse. The facts are the facts, and you don't want to face them!

What callous disinformation from someone who has never lived beyond the three-mile limit! True Replicant mentality. Of course taxation is higher in Europe - but you are overlooking "what you get for the money"!

What is more important in determining quality of life-style other than Health Care and Schooling?:
*In terms of HealthCare you have some of the most costly on earth (twice as expensive per capita as National HealthCare Systems in Europe). Moreover, the final outcome is that Americans are living 3-years less than Europeans. The out-of-pocket cost to see a doctor in France is (net) $5, whilst yours cost in the US is $49. (See here.)
*We are coming out of the Industrial Age (for which most simple products manufacturing has long-since left the US), and are entering the Information Age that should mean (to anyone not brainless) that education is the KEY ELEMENT in determining Future Income. At present, the average American graduating with a 4-year degree also has a $30K debt to pay-off uniquely because of their degree. And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, the debt is a barrier to postsecondary degree completion for which only 45% of high-school students obtain a Tertiary Level degree in the US. (Click here to see tuition fees in 15 different countries) In most EU schools, there is NO STUDENT DEBT - and thus a higher rate of graduates.

(Just ASK me to prove those contentions with factual infographics that I have already posted on this site at least a hundred times!)

Give it up, will you? You are SO WRONG, SO WRONG, SO WRONG ...

Lafayette said:

LOOK AT WHAT YOU GET FOR THE MONEY!



False equivalency, me arse. The facts are the facts, and you don't want to face them!

What callous disinformation from someone who has never lived beyond the three-mile limit! True Replicant mentality. Of course taxation is higher in Europe - but you are overlooking "what you get for the money"!

What is more important in determining quality of life-style other than Health Care and Schooling?:
*In terms of HealthCare you have some of the most costly on earth (twice as expensive per capita as National HealthCare Systems in Europe). Moreover, the final outcome is that Americans are living 3-years less than Europeans. The out-of-pocket cost to see a doctor in France is (net) $5, whilst yours cost in the US is $49. (See here.)
*We are coming out of the Industrial Age (for which most simple products manufacturing has long-since left the US), and are entering the Information Age that should mean (to anyone not brainless) that education is the KEY ELEMENT in determining Future Income. At present, the average American graduating with a 4-year degree also has a $30K debt to pay-off uniquely because of their degree. And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, the debt is a barrier to postsecondary degree completion for which only 45% of high-school students obtain a Tertiary Level degree in the US. (Click here to see tuition fees in 15 different countries) In most EU schools, there is NO STUDENT DEBT - and thus a higher rate of graduates.

(Just ASK me to prove those contentions with factual infographics that I have already posted on this site at least a hundred times!)

Give it up, will you? You are SO WRONG, SO WRONG, SO WRONG ...

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What is more important? Freedom. Liberty. The ability to live life as you see fit so long as you do not interfere with other peoples freedoms and liberty. That's the part that you skipped over in your reply to me. You have less freedoms than I do.

And really? "never lived beyond the three-mile limit"? You obviously do not know me or have not read many of my posts. I've lived from the west coast of this country to the east coast and back again. With many states in between. And seen many different types of cultures doing so. So you can take that bit of arrogant assumption and throw it out the window.

Yes, the US has its problems. So does every other country out there. No country is perfect.

Kal'Stang said:

t? Freedom. Liberty. The ability to live life as you see fit so long as you do not interfere with other peoples freedoms and liberty. That's the part that you skipped over in your reply to me. .

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Freedom and Liberty are guaranties of any Whole Democracy. It's not each state that is responsible.

We are 321M Americans and we all deserve a Fair Share since we all contribute to the market-economy. However, taxation law assures that we don't get fairness. Tax-rates are heavily in favor of upper-incomes and it is foolish to think that just because they pay a lot in taxes, that they are "over-taxed".

In fact, the lack of taxation is the prime-reason the Great Recession happened. The avarice on Wall Street was rampant as brokers sought to get-rich-quick - and they did so by selling packaged SubPrime Loans (that were of dubious credit-quality) and authenticated by rating agencies as Triple-A then sold to the world by Investment Bankers.

All for what? Those who earned handsome commissions and retired long before the age of 65 because they had made one humongous chunk-a-money. The result was the Great Recession of 2007/9 that pushed unemployment rates up to 10%. The money taken and made into Wealth is now "invested" - but in interest-bearing bonds. Had it been taxed fairly, it would have been returned to the market-economy by means of government job-creation funding.

This is only one example of the America's fixation with Making Money and Tax-rates. Which Donald Dork is about to reduce yet again - as if the rich and super-rich did not yet have enough Wealth.

Who went to jail for the gigantic fraud as a result of the SubPrime Mess? Nobody. The banks paid a nominal fine, that's all. The people who ran Fannie-mac and Freddie-mae (from which most sub-prime loans issued) are enjoying their very early "retirement" on the links in Florida.

And the rest of us unemployed from 2007 to 2014 when the economy started creating jobs once again were just road-kill on the Highway of Life. The fast-lane is for the Ferrari-rich - you know, the guys that now infest the White House ...