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Random initial thoughts on yesterday's election...

radcen

radcen

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Random initial thoughts on yesterday's election...

- All I can say is, he pulled it off. For good or for bad, Trump is it.

- Pollsters need some serious work.

- The Dems seriously underestimated the rural person's point-of-view and impact. They kept smugly and arrogantly proclaiming that the demographics have changed, implying a new direction, but it hasn't changed enough to suit their goals. In reality it's only changed significantly in the urban areas and around colleges. Much of the rest of the country is still greatly conservative, and I felt people in these rural areas made it a point to stand up this time and make sure their voice was heard, too.

- Reps, I believe, will get all cocky over these results, take it as a mandate (which it isn't), and basically shoot themselves in the foot. Not unlike how the Dems did so after Obama was first elected in 2008 and they controlled Congress and the WH for a couple years, then blew it. I swear the most un-self-aware entities in the world have to be political parties, but I digress.

- I do believe that the email scandal hurt Hillary more than she and the Dems know, or want to admit. True that she has been able to avoid indictment, but even if it was/is legal it was still a massively boneheaded thing to do and shows an utter lack of judgment on her part. And then on top of that she "lost" so many emails?!? Seriously? That defense, I'm sure, helped keep her from legal prosecution, but from a competency perspective it made her look completely irresponsible and unqualified for the job she was seeking.

- Trump is still a buffoon. But, he's going to be President Buffoon, and as such his office (if not him) deserves the benefit of the doubt now and we *should be* working toward common goals. Will he get get that? Meh, probably not, but petty partisanship of the past is a poor excuse for continuing said pettiness. If you/we can clamor for party unity, we should have no reservations clamoring for national and societal unity, as well... but I won't hold my breath. Ok, off my Pollyanna soapbox.
 
radcen said:
Random initial thoughts on yesterday's election...

- All I can say is, he pulled it off. For good or for bad, Trump is it.

- Pollsters need some serious work.

- The Dems seriously underestimated the rural person's point-of-view and impact. They kept smugly and arrogantly proclaiming that the demographics have changed, implying a new direction, but it hasn't changed enough to suit their goals. In reality it's only changed significantly in the urban areas and around colleges. Much of the rest of the country is still greatly conservative, and I felt people in these rural areas made it a point to stand up this time and make sure their voice was heard, too.

- Reps, I believe, will get all cocky over these results, take it as a mandate (which it isn't), and basically shoot themselves in the foot. Not unlike how the Dems did so after Obama was first elected in 2008 and they controlled Congress and the WH for a couple years, then blew it. I swear the most un-self-aware entities in the world have to be political parties, but I digress.

- I do believe that the email scandal hurt Hillary more than she and the Dems know, or want to admit. True that she has been able to avoid indictment, but even if it was/is legal it was still a massively boneheaded thing to do and shows an utter lack of judgment on her part. And then on top of that she "lost" so many emails?!? Seriously? That defense, I'm sure, helped keep her from legal prosecution, but from a competency perspective it made her look completely irresponsible and unqualified for the job she was seeking.

- Trump is still a buffoon. But, he's going to be President Buffoon, and as such his office (if not him) deserves the benefit of the doubt now and we *should be* working toward common goals. Will he get get that? Meh, probably not, but petty partisanship of the past is a poor excuse for continuing said pettiness. If you/we can clamor for party unity, we should have no reservations clamoring for national and societal unity, as well... but I won't hold my breath. Ok, off my Pollyanna soapbox.
Click to expand...

I think a big reason why Hillary lost is because she has absolutely no charisma. She had no real momentum behind her campaign, other than the fact that she wasn't Donald Trump. Hillary is as dry and bland as a piece of cardboard, and because of that her supporters weren't all that hyped for her.

Donald Trump on the other hand, had a ton of momentum behind his campaign. His supporters were very enthusiastic about him winning. And hey, it payed off big time in the end.
 
radcen said:
Random initial thoughts on yesterday's election...

- All I can say is, he pulled it off. For good or for bad, Trump is it.

- Pollsters need some serious work.

- The Dems seriously underestimated the rural person's point-of-view and impact. They kept smugly and arrogantly proclaiming that the demographics have changed, implying a new direction, but it hasn't changed enough to suit their goals. In reality it's only changed significantly in the urban areas and around colleges. Much of the rest of the country is still greatly conservative, and I felt people in these rural areas made it a point to stand up this time and make sure their voice was heard, too.

- Reps, I believe, will get all cocky over these results, take it as a mandate (which it isn't), and basically shoot themselves in the foot. Not unlike how the Dems did so after Obama was first elected in 2008 and they controlled Congress and the WH for a couple years, then blew it. I swear the most un-self-aware entities in the world have to be political parties, but I digress.

- I do believe that the email scandal hurt Hillary more than she and the Dems know, or want to admit. True that she has been able to avoid indictment, but even if it was/is legal it was still a massively boneheaded thing to do and shows an utter lack of judgment on her part. And then on top of that she "lost" so many emails?!? Seriously? That defense, I'm sure, helped keep her from legal prosecution, but from a competency perspective it made her look completely irresponsible and unqualified for the job she was seeking.

- Trump is still a buffoon. But, he's going to be President Buffoon, and as such his office (if not him) deserves the benefit of the doubt now and we *should be* working toward common goals. Will he get get that? Meh, probably not, but petty partisanship of the past is a poor excuse for continuing said pettiness. If you/we can clamor for party unity, we should have no reservations clamoring for national and societal unity, as well... but I won't hold my breath. Ok, off my Pollyanna soapbox.
Click to expand...

I don't think Reps will take it as a mandate. I think it scares the CRAP out of them. The only mandate expressed by this vote is, "We're sick of ALL of you!!"

Trump is not a buffoon. If you can't respect the man, respect the office.
 
TheGoverness said:
I think a big reason why Hillary lost is because she has absolutely no charisma. She had no real momentum behind her campaign, other than the fact that she wasn't Donald Trump. Hillary is as dry and bland as a piece of cardboard, and because of that her supporters weren't all that hyped for her.

Donald Trump on the other hand, had a ton of momentum behind his campaign. His supporters were very enthusiastic about him winning. And hey, it payed off big time in the end.
Click to expand...

It's quite the same thing that happened to us, when Obama won.
 
MaggieD said:
I don't think Reps will take it as a mandate. I think it scares the CRAP out of them. The only mandate expressed by this vote is, "We're sick of ALL of you!!"

Trump is not a buffoon. If you can't respect the man, respect the office.
Click to expand...

We're sick of all of you and political correctness.
 
joG said:
We're sick of all of you and political correctness.
Click to expand...

Liberals are sick of trump and he hasnt even been sworn in yet?

Why dont libs just cut to the chase and begin the nominating process for 2020 in the dear, sweet, wonderful democrat party?
 
MaggieD said:
Trump is not a buffoon.
Click to expand...
He certainly ran a great campaign and I said that before the election.

I think what's most fascinating is that Trump got people to believe that simply reading off a teleprompter and not saying/tweeting outlandish things actually was a positive about him. He was so bombastic throughout the election, when he stopped being outlandish, people argued that was a point in his favor.

I don't know if that was his gameplan, but if so, it certainly worked.
If you can't respect the man, respect the office.
Click to expand...
This is something I've always believed. Personally, I'm quite disappointed Americans validated the type of campaign Trump ran (not even about Trump, just the campaign) but at the end of the day, he will be our next President and the office deserves respect. I hope good things come from his election, even if I'm far from convinced it will at this point.
 
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Slyfox696 said:
He certainly ran a great campaign and I said that before the election.

I think what's most fascinating is that Trump got people to believe that simply reading off a teleprompter and not saying/tweeting outlandish things actually was a positive about him. He was so bombastic throughout the election, when he stopped being outlandish, people argued that was a point in his favor.

I don't know if that was his gameplan, but if so, it certainly worked.
This is something I've always believed. Personally, I'm quite disappointed Americans validated the type of campaign Trump ran (not even about Trump, just the campaign) but at the end of the day, he will be our next President and the office deserves respect. I hope good things come from his election, even if I'm far from convinced it will at this point.
Click to expand...

Are you a hillary voter?
 
TheGoverness said:
I think a big reason why Hillary lost is because she has absolutely no charisma. She had no real momentum behind her campaign, other than the fact that she wasn't Donald Trump. Hillary is as dry and bland as a piece of cardboard, and because of that her supporters weren't all that hyped for her.

Donald Trump on the other hand, had a ton of momentum behind his campaign. His supporters were very enthusiastic about him winning. And hey, it payed off big time in the end.
Click to expand...
This election has to be analyzed not only as a Trump win, but a Hillary loss. She had everything: the money, the endorsements, the media, the surrogates, yet she lost fairly convincingly to a guy with zero experience who had a penchant for saying unbelievably stupid and insulting things. As bad a s Trump was during the campaign--and he was bad--the majority of the public viewed her as worse. Hillary was hopelessly flawed and democrats need to confront that. Blaming the voters, calling them stupid and racist will be the knee-jerk reaction of the left, but it misses what really happened here
 
Fletch said:
This election has to be analyzed not only as a Trump win, but a Hillary loss. She had everything: the money, the endorsements, the media, the surrogates, yet she lost fairly convincingly to a guy with zero experience who had a penchant for saying unbelievably stupid and insulting things. As bad a s Trump was during the campaign--and he was bad--the majority of the public viewed her as worse. Hillary was hopelessly flawed and democrats need to confront that. Blaming the voters, calling them stupid and racist will be the knee-jerk reaction of the left, but it misses what really happened here
Click to expand...
Excellent post, and I pretty much agree with all of it. My only quibble is that the majority of the public sees her as worse. She did win the popular vote (last I heard, subject to update), but that was so close I would call it virtually evenly split.
 
Mac77 said:
Are you a hillary voter?
Click to expand...
I actually left the Presidential line blank. I even looked into possible write-in candidates (my state only allows write-ins who registered, or something to that effect) and couldn't even find a write-in I supported.

So I left it blank. Why?
 
radcen said:
Excellent post, and I pretty much agree with all of it. My only quibble is that the majority of the public sees her as worse. She did win the popular vote (last I heard, subject to update), but that was so close I would call it virtually evenly split.
Click to expand...

Thing is, with the way Trump handled himself, it shouldn't even have been close.
 
Slyfox696 said:
I actually left the Presidential line blank. I even looked into possible write-in candidates (my state only allows write-ins who registered, or something to that effect) and couldn't even find a write-in I supported.

So I left it blank. Why?
Click to expand...
Because you have principles.
 
radcen said:
Excellent post, and I pretty much agree with all of it. My only quibble is that the majority of the public sees her as worse. She did win the popular vote (last I heard, subject to update), but that was so close I would call it virtually evenly split.
Click to expand...
It is fairly interesting that she won the popular vote but so completely has lost the electoral college vote (barring a surprise in Michigan or Arizona).
 
Slyfox696 said:
I actually left the Presidential line blank. I even looked into possible write-in candidates (my state only allows write-ins who registered, or something to that effect) and couldn't even find a write-in I supported.

So I left it blank. Why?
Click to expand...

Dont ask me what I think of Tweeners who cant decide cause you would not like the answer.

Hopefully you will come to like the president that the rest of us elected for you

But if you dont thats ok too
 
Slyfox696 said:
It is fairly interesting that she won the popular vote but so completely has lost the electoral college vote (barring a surprise in Michigan or Arizona).
Click to expand...
The popular vote not coinciding necessarily with the electoral vote has happened in the past, but it's been fairly rare. I wonder if it's going to become more common in the foreseeable future. 2000, 2016, ???
 
A POTUS lasts for 4 years and is largely constrained by congress but the SCOTUS changes that a POTUS makes will likely last much longer and can trump (love that pun) all other branches of government (at all levels of government) - possibly forever, via precedent, barring any constitutional amendment.
 
MaggieD said:
I don't think Reps will take it as a mandate. I think it scares the CRAP out of them. The only mandate expressed by this vote is, "We're sick of ALL of you!!"

Trump is not a buffoon. If you can't respect the man, respect the office.
Click to expand...

Exactly on point MaggieD.

Despite all the efforts of the Establishment Elites in the GOP, voters told them to pound sand. The ramifications of that message have not worked it's way through yet.

The "buffoon" meme is rather interesting since Trump, with little to no support from the party, rocked everyone onto their rear ends.

Pretty difficult to suggest that result is the sign of a buffoon.
 
radcen said:
The popular vote not coinciding necessarily with the electoral vote has happened in the past, but it's been fairly rare. I wonder if it's going to become more common in the foreseeable future. 2000, 2016, ???
Click to expand...

Seven of the last eight US elections, the Republicans lost the popular vote.
 
ocean515 said:
Exactly on point MaggieD.

Despite all the efforts of the Establishment Elites in the GOP, voters told them to pound sand. The ramifications of that message have not worked it's way through yet.

The "buffoon" meme is rather interesting since Trump, with little to no support from the party, rocked everyone onto their rear ends.

Pretty difficult to suggest that result is the sign of a buffoon.
Click to expand...
To paraphrase Forrest Gump, a buffoon is as a buffoon does. Trump is a buffoon. Just because so many bought into it doesn't, by itself, negate that. It only means Hillary has just as many, if not more, negatives than he has.

As far as the GOP getting slapped, I'd be more willing to believe that if the Senate and House races had more rejection of the status quo, too. For the most part, they really didn't.
 
ocean515 said:
Exactly on point MaggieD.

Despite all the efforts of the Establishment Elites in the GOP, voters told them to pound sand. The ramifications of that message have not worked it's way through yet.

The "buffoon" meme is rather interesting since Trump, with little to no support from the party, rocked everyone onto their rear ends.

Pretty difficult to suggest that result is the sign of a buffoon.
Click to expand...

The baffoon label is really aimed at trump voters more than trump himself.

Liberals and libertarians (anti trumpsters or libs for short) can say that trump was just acting the fool to impress dumb old white males without a college degree and they fell for trumps act.

That gives libs an out and the best of both worlds.
 
radcen said:
To paraphrase Forrest Gump, a buffoon is as a buffoon does. Trump is a buffoon. Just because so many bought into it doesn't, by itself, negate that. It only means Hillary has just as many, if not more, negatives than he has.

As far as the GOP getting slapped, I'd be more willing to believe that if the Senate and House races had more rejection of the status quo, too. For the most part, they really didn't.
Click to expand...

You are entitled to your opinion.

As to the Congress, the question of Status Quo was not really in play. I have to believe it will be in the future. Despite the efforts of many GOP members of Congress, the people sent a message. I would suggest they pay attention to it if they plan on remaining in office for the long term.
 
Mac77 said:
The baffoon label is really aimed at trump voters more than trump himself.

Liberals and libertarians (anti trumpsters or libs for short) can say that trump was just acting the fool to impress dumb old white males without a college degree and they fell for trumps act.

That gives libs an out and the best of both worlds.
Click to expand...
Nice spin, and I'm sure that makes you feel better, but no. "Buffoon" is for Trump. "Gullible" and/or "sucker" is for his supporters.
 
Mac77 said:
The baffoon label is really aimed at trump voters more than trump himself.

Liberals and libertarians (anti trumpsters or libs for short) can say that trump was just acting the fool to impress dumb old white males without a college degree and they fell for trumps act.

That gives libs an out and the best of both worlds.
Click to expand...

Well, labels are all the left really has. They earned a new one: Runner up.
 
ocean515 said:
You are entitled to your opinion.

As to the Congress, the question of Status Quo was not really in play. I have to believe it will be in the future. Despite the efforts of many GOP members of Congress, the people sent a message. I would suggest they pay attention to it if they plan on remaining in office for the long term.
Click to expand...

The Senate wasn't really in play as it can change (theoretically) 1/3 at a time. The House is always "in play".

Having said that, even a voting revolution would not have affected wholesale change, that was not the implication. But, pretty much nothing changed, at least substantially. For the most part, incumbents still prevailed.
 
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