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WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED? Trump? Hillary?

EvaPeron said:
Look - I see why you feel the way you do. However, not voting is also a choice. If I could do one think, it would be to try and convince anyone who would listen why choosing Trump is a better choice over Hillary. Is he an a&*(*)( when it comes to saying stupid things? Yes. Is he a bit self centered? Yes. Is he often living a tad bit in the past? Yes. Did he use his power and money to manipulate pretty women in his earlier years? Yes.

Now, compare that to Hillary. The woman is on tape laughing about getting a man off on a failed lie detector result who raped a 12 year old girl. Raped so badly, she was never able to have children. She with her husband ran the white house and used their power to basically do whatever they wanted to do. Including, affairs in our highest office with interns who were later made out to be bimbos and tramps. She was so horrible as the SOS, the men in Benghazi lost their lives horribly and she can't even be honest bout any of it. She's created the sneakiest of all foundations for charity. One that while she taunts as being great, has made her and her husband millions and one that cannot be truly rated by charitable organizations because it doesn't operate in a normal manner. Now, why does it not operate in a normal manner? Because it is linked to Hillary Clinton. Just like her private email server, she is the sneakiest of sneaky and never, ever plays by the books. By doing it the way she does, she gets to say that she donates 89% of the money but really, no one has any measure to track her. Look at some of the news reports from those she's supposedly helped - all lies. And, then we have her time as SOS and all her lies and her pay for play scandals that netted her millions. How dare she use the office of the SOS to benefit and to betray the American people.

Look, you have a choice to make and deciding not to vote is actually helping put her in office. I hope that you reconsider because while it is easy to say that we are faced with difficult choices because our candidates simply don't measure up, to do nothing is doing something and maybe doing something that will harm our country for decades to come.
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Oh and of course I forgot to mention the Supreme Court. For that reason alone, everyone who believes in the constitution should get out and vote for Trump. Giving it to Hillary is losing our freedoms that our founding fathers and our own fathers, grandparents etc. worked to protect.
 
haymarket said:
The fact that there were so many super delegates and the DNC establishment for Clinton worked against the insurgent - which was Sanders.
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It was partially his fault tho. If he was serious, he should have run as an independent. At least then, he would have had some morals. National parties like people with track records helping their own party, Sanders has shown no interest (until now) to do that. Plus, the liberal base isn't as pissed off as the conservative base. Clinton wants to improve upon Obama's policies and most Dems are happy with that regardless of her image problems.

With Trump as the Republican nominee, Hillary is smooth sailing.
 
apdst said:
If Cruz and Rubio and the rest hadn't given us the same old song-n-dance, they might have won the primary.
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Cruz didn't stand a chance because the permanent political class establishment hated and feared him more than they hate Trump. It is too bad that Cruz and Trump got so sideways in the primaries because though Pence was an excellent choice in theory, he too is seen as establishment while Cruz is not. And Cruz might have given Trump more clout with the voters.

But Rubio was 100% status quo establishment Republican and was being groomed as a rising star. He or Jeb Bush were intended to be the nominee. I'm afraid because they put Rubio out there too early--way before he was ready--they may have ruined him for good. Only time will tell about that.

The fact is that Hillary Clinton is a thorough dishonest, corrupt, feckless politician who is in it for Hillary Clinton and nobody else. I base that on a long long track record and decades of watching Hillary Clinton. No good will come from a Clinton presidency and what good happens will be in spite of and not because of her.

I don't know if Trump will win--I don't expect that he will but keep hoping that there is hope--because he had everybody against him--Democrats, liberals, Libertarians, Republicans, everybody left, all on the right who base their vote on feelings instead of solid issues, the Media, all organizations and entities who depend on establishment government for their existence, and, most importantly, the fact that Trump is his own worst enemy in this campaign. But if he does I am fully prepared for him to be as undisciplined and self centered as President as he is now. But I will still vote for him because he is the ONLY one running that I trust to make Supreme Court appointments, and he is the ONLY one running who has any clue how to make things better.

And because he does understand what make things better, I think he just might do that out of pure ego so that he can say he did it.
 
ModerateGOP said:
It was partially his fault tho. If he was serious, he should have run as an independent. At least then, he would have had some morals. National parties like people with track records helping their own party, Sanders has shown no interest (until now) to do that. Plus, the liberal base isn't as pissed off as the conservative base. Clinton wants to improve upon Obama's policies and most Dems are happy with that regardless of her image problems.

With Trump as the Republican nominee, Hillary is smooth sailing.
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Yay, lets all get out and vote!

blackjack50 said:
Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


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Thanks, I love to pontificate.

Election flow chart: 1) As long as the Republicans hold to trickle down we cannot have them as President. 2) Have the Democrats screwed up yet? No. 3) Ted Cruz and those guys poll better than Trump against Mrs. Clinton.

Bernie Sanders was a close call. Any man can just walk up and take from the woman because he is man so he takes first.

This is the first Primary season went like it did because of how Republicans treated Obama after they handed over such an economic crisis when given a surplus.
 
Exquisitor said:
Yay, lets all get out and vote!



Thanks, I love to pontificate.

Election flow chart: 1) As long as the Republicans hold to trickle down we cannot have them as President. 2) Have the Democrats screwed up yet? No. 3) Ted Cruz and those guys poll better than Trump against Mrs. Clinton.

Bernie Sanders was a close call. Any man can just walk up and take from the woman because he is man so he takes first.

This is the first Primary season went like it did because of how Republicans treated Obama after they handed over such an economic crisis when given a surplus.
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" Trickle down" ? You mean supply side and it works just fine.

And what surplus was handed over to the Republicans ? The debt went up every year under Clinton ?

Amd that " economic crisis " was also called the Subprime Crisis which the Democrats had a large hamd in creating
 
America is in trouble, that is what happened, and it will keep getting worse till/unless we decide to work together to fix it.

No signs of that yet.
 
blackjack50 said:
Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


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Yea we got ourselves a good ol fashioned cluster F. Should be Omalley running for the left, and either Rubio or Bush on the right. All three of those people didn't pander to who they needed to pander to in order to get donors. Trump and Clinton winning their sides proves that only money wins elections.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
America is in trouble, that is what happened, and it will keep getting worse till/unless we decide to work together to fix it.

No signs of that yet.
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No, I say one side slays the other, (goat caricatures) now we've given these Republicans enough rope to hang themselves and they've gone and done that so let's make sure this goat of a party dies quickly and is good and dead so it doesn't have to lay around suffering.

Fenton said:
" Trickle down" ? You mean supply side and it works just fine.

And what surplus was handed over to the Republicans ? The debt went up every year under Clinton ?

Amd that " economic crisis " was also called the Subprime Crisis which the Democrats had a large hamd in creating
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By trickle down I mean the notion that giving rich more money besides being a nice dream to buy into with your vote if you're poorer than beneficiaries of trickle down,... the notion that this money we give the rich is going to be spent on jobs not bubble or some potentially evil extravagance.

By the end of his term Clinton had the Budget balanced and we could have stopped borrowing and begin paying principle. Haven't you ever heard of the Clinton Boom?
 
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Cardinal said:
Do you have stats for that? As I remember it, the concept of the super delegate was more alarming than what it actually did to the voting results.
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The super delegates existed since Mondale's defeat.

The only thing unusual about this year was that Clinton received more early endorsements from the Democratic Party establishment then in previous elections.
 
Cardinal said:
Which candidate is that?
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blackjack50 said:
I will be voting for "him." He is the only choice I can make without feeling dirty. But I'm not a libertarian. I'm the new republican. Not a Neo con. I want fiscal conservative policies. I am socially liberal, for a republican, I don't care about gays and weed. Abortion is law now. I want us to spend time protecting other rights and the economy.
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Good deal, man. If all the people that said they liked Ron Paul and Gary Johnson the best would actually just go vote for them instead of waving the subject away and saying, "They can't win" we'd have a much better government.
 
Brewdog said:
Good deal, man. If all the people that said they liked Ron Paul and Gary Johnson the best would actually just go vote for them instead of waving the subject away and saying, "They can't win" we'd have a much better government.
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Are you implying I should vote for Johnson? Why would I want to do that?
 
Cardinal said:
Are you implying I should vote for Johnson? Why would I want to do that?
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I'm implying that if he's the person you see as being the best candidate, then you should vote your conscience. Why vote for someone you don't like for president? Why waste your vote on someone you deem to be horrible just because they're more likely to win? If they're more likely to win, your single vote won't help. But if the libertarian supporters had put their weight behind Johnson, he could have been in the debates. And had that happened, I think we'd have a completely different ballgame.

In various polls, when Johnson is put head to head against either Trump or Hillary, Johnson wins. The disdain for both of the major candidates is so bad, Johnson would get a huge number of people coming over to his camp. But many of the polls don't even include Johnson at all, so how would he ever get 15% to get into the debates when he's not even presented as an option?
 
WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED? Trump? Hillary?
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the ****ty two party system happened, along with decade upon decade of gerrymandering.

blackjack50 said:
Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news?
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yep.
 
Helix said:
the ****ty two party system happened, along with decade upon decade of gerrymandering.
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I'm so sick and tired of Gerry and all his mandering. Someone needs to reel him in a bit.
 
blackjack50 said:
Does anyone else find themselves thinking this every time they see the news? Is this like a majority view? Do people actually believe these 2 nitwits are capable of the highest office in the land? The corruption and the idiocy and the lies and subversion...it is so damn high on both sides. I cannot be the only person who refuses to vote for either simply to save my soul and my integrity?

So. Maybe. Just share your thoughts on how ridiculous these choices are in this election and pontificate who your better candidate for the front runner for each party, and then for the president.

Personally? As a republican? Cruz was ok. But I liked Rubio and Paul and Carson better. I'd take any one of them over trump.


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THis is NOT an endorsement for Trump Or hilary but I think Cruz, Paul and Carson lose just as bad or even worse. Rubio could have put up a fight if his platform avoid social issues but if he made them part of his platform he would have gone down in smoke too. I started saying it here in 2012 that IF Hillary gets the nomination the whitehouse is probably hers because the GOP nominee will be far right or some type of nutter. Again thats not an endorsement for Hillary just how I saw reality unfolding.
 
helix said:
the ****ty two party system happened, along with decade upon decade of gerrymandering.
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like like like like like like like like like like like like like like like
 
Brewdog said:
I'm implying that if he's the person you see as being the best candidate, then you should vote your conscience. Why vote for someone you don't like for president? Why waste your vote on someone you deem to be horrible just because they're more likely to win? If they're more likely to win, your single vote won't help. But if the libertarian supporters had put their weight behind Johnson, he could have been in the debates. And had that happened, I think we'd have a completely different ballgame.

In various polls, when Johnson is put head to head against either Trump or Hillary, Johnson wins. The disdain for both of the major candidates is so bad, Johnson would get a huge number of people coming over to his camp. But many of the polls don't even include Johnson at all, so how would he ever get 15% to get into the debates when he's not even presented as an option?
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Even if I were to assume that Johnson is the best candidate, which I don't, I can tell you right now that I'm voting my conscience just fine.
 
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Cardinal said:
Even if I were to assume that Johnson is the best candidate, which I don't, I can tell you right now now that I'm voting my conscience just fine.
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And you should. I just wish everyone would instead of being so hardheaded as to always get fixated on just two people.
 
I hate this election. I borderline hate this country now...
 
Brewdog said:
And you should. I just wish everyone would instead of being so hardheaded as to always get fixated on just two people.
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You're getting into the eternal "vote your favorite candidate" vs. "vote the best of those most likely to win" debate I don't judge people for which of the two makes them more comfortable. FWIW, I'm in the latter group.
 
Cardinal said:
Trump was chosen in the Primaries because the GOP underestimated that the majority of its registered voters were so angry over their economic situation that they would ignore all other considerations, e.g. the qualities and inexperience of the champion they chose to speak for their concerns.

Clinton was chosen in the Primaries because of the pervasive narrative that she was the only one who could defeat a Republican candidate.

And here we are.
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That's a fair summation of how we got here.

The GOP political elite running in the primaries were really out of touch with the majority of their electorate's legitimate concerns, legitimate concerns that the political elite have been seemingly ignoring for years already. Trump dared to speak about those very concerns; hence his popularity with that electorate.

I would hope that the political elite, of both parties for that matter, take this as a teaching moment, i.e. you can't ignore the concerns of the electorate without repercussions.

I would further hope that the winner of this election tune in really hard into this teaching moment, as once the election is over, they are going to have to do something to unite the country and the electorate, to lead the country and it's people, which has never been more deeply divided.
"A house divided against itself, cannot stand."T

To me, this means that there should be no shoving bad legislation up the nation's ass sideways. We've seen how that works out, and it's worse than what the nation and it's people deserve, worse than what the nation and it's people deserve from their leadership.
 
eohrnberger said:
That's a fair summation of how we got here.

The GOP political elite running in the primaries were really out of touch with the majority of their electorate's legitimate concerns, legitimate concerns that the political elite have been seemingly ignoring for years already. Trump dared to speak about those very concerns; hence his popularity with that electorate.

I would hope that the political elite, of both parties for that matter, take this as a teaching moment, i.e. you can't ignore the concerns of the electorate without repercussions.

I would further hope that the winner of this election tune in really hard into this teaching moment, as once the election is over, they are going to have to do something to unite the country and the electorate, to lead the country and it's people, which has never been more deeply divided.
"A house divided against itself, cannot stand."T

To me, this means that there should be no shoving bad legislation up the nation's ass sideways. We've seen how that works out, and it's worse than what the nation and it's people deserve, worse than what the nation and it's people deserve from their leadership.
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I think the only way for things to get back to normal is to break this gridlock in congress.
 
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