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Are Electors still relevant?

We do allow on average a million people to legally enter our country every year.

To become citizens ?

Why not more ?


I support legal immigration.

So do I


Once again you seem confused about the difference between legal and illegal.

Nope it's you


Why is there illegal immigration ?

Why can't they just be let in and get a job (legally that is and pay taxes) just like your great grandfather ?


Immigrants are not bad. Criminals who have no respect for our laws are bad. Again I support legal immigration. I don't understand your inability to comprehend the difference.

So legalize them and make them citizens and hey presto you don't have to think of them as criminals.
 
So? Why should a vote there be more important then a vote here? Is there a value or benefit that these powerful votes bring to our nation that is so critical we must preserve it? Why should a vote in the sixth largest economy in the world not mean more then one in Wyoming? There is a compelling argument that a voter in TX, NY and CA should have more power since these three states alone drive most of the national economy and have world class institutions. Or how about Mass or IL or WA? All three have extraordinary economies, more world class universities and yet somehow a rancher in Wyoming is more valuable to us. This makes no sense at all. Since comparing states is a lesson in futility, why even bother with debating it and just go to one man, one vote? That way, we are all equal under the law.

The electoral college prevents mob rule. For example, let's say California opens its borders with Mexico and encourages hundreds of thousands of undocumented aliens to flood into our country and then gives them voting rights while guiding them to vote democrat. Eventually those illegal voters could determine the outcome of a national election by force of sheer numbers.

Vote against state laws protecting illegal voting. Vote republican in 2020.
 
I have been doing some homework or refresher on early presidential elections. I discovered/re-learned that the founders were really torn on our presidential election system. Half wanted to go with the direct vote for President aka national popular vote, while the other half wanted congress to pick the President. Their compromise or 11th hour decision was electors. The belief here was that the average Joe were uneducated/uninformed on the issues, needed political experts to vote on their behalf, and feared they would pick a tyrant. Electors were the middle-ground people. They were not members of the U.S Senator or Congress. They were local political figures and had a broad understanding of the world around them.

Fast forward to 2020. We live in an age of the internet, social media, television, radio, and wide range of transportation options. Most of the population has some sort of post High School education. On one hand, we're all more educated than we were in the late 18th century, but at the same time, very few people actually watch the news on a regular basis. We have people to live in their own bubble and vote by party line. You watch Fox News, you get the impression that Trump is a victim and the Democrats are evil. You watch CNN or MSNBC, you get the impression that Democrats are heroes and Trump is a clown dressed in a suit.

Does the concept of electors really matter anymore? Originally they were suppose to be free thinking and provide a check on the American people. In the 20th century, we literally had only 7 faithless electors total. So far this century, we have had 8 total. The 2016 election brought forth 6 of the 8. I am just curious if we still need political experts to vote on our behalf.

We should always strive for more democracy, not less. There are few exceptions, such as the majority should not hold the ability to violate the civil rights of the minority, to dehumanize them, exclude them from the electoral system, not should they be allowed to intimate the minority.
 
The electoral college prevents mob rule. For example, let's say California opens its borders with Mexico and encourages hundreds of thousands of undocumented aliens to flood into our country and then gives them voting rights while guiding them to vote democrat. Eventually those illegal voters could determine the outcome of a national election by force of sheer numbers.

Vote against state laws protecting illegal voting. Vote republican in 2020.

My lord...right wing media has done a wonderful job convincing people like you of lies....for the last time, there is virtually no voter fraud, none.
 
The electoral college prevents mob rule.

No the Electoral College allows a minority to dictate to the majority

This is "mob rule"

Like the Nazis, the Bolsheviks and the Taliban

Reject the EC and with it reject the politics of mob rule

Americans don't want to become Nazis


For example, let's say California opens its borders with Mexico and encourages hundreds of thousands of undocumented aliens to flood into our country and then gives them voting rights while guiding them to vote democrat. Eventually those illegal voters could determine the outcome of a national election by force of sheer numbers.

So make the citizens and at a stroke they are not illegal voters

And why would they become Democrats? Is it because the Republicans only have a message for the rich ?


Vote against state laws protecting illegal voting. Vote republican in 2020.

No, vote for turning illegal immigrants into legal citizens with a legal vote and throw Republicanism into the trash can of history for good.
 
The electoral college prevents mob rule. For example, let's say California opens its borders with Mexico and encourages hundreds of thousands of undocumented aliens to flood into our country and then gives them voting rights while guiding them to vote democrat. Eventually those illegal voters could determine the outcome of a national election by force of sheer numbers.

Vote against state laws protecting illegal voting. Vote republican in 2020.

Marke, it would be illegal for California to open its borders to immigration. When California joined the Union one of it's sovereign powers it gave up was immigration, only the Federal government has the power to grant immigration status.
 
Marke, it would be illegal for California to open its borders to immigration. When California joined the Union one of it's sovereign powers it gave up was immigration, only the Federal government has the power to grant immigration status.

And California is a blue state anyway.
 
My lord...right wing media has done a wonderful job convincing people like you of lies....for the last time, there is virtually no voter fraud, none.

You lie about voter fraud. Maybe you just don't know any better. Try reading this:

House Report 105-416 - DISMISSING THE ELECTION CONTEST AGAINST LORETTA SANCHEZ

The Committee detailed egregious violations of the state
election laws to support its conclusion including: (1) stolen
ballots; (2) improperly constituted board of election
inspectors; (3) persons voting multiple times; (4)
electioneering too close to the polls; (5) unsworn persons
handling ballots; (6) intimidation of poll workers; (7)
drunkenness by the head of the board of election inspectors;
(8) inspectors with knowledge of stolen ballots failing to
report such illegalities; and (9) torn, erased, and mutilated
ballots. ...
Information gathered at this Field Hearing indicated that
the Immigration and Naturalization Service was unwilling to
assist either the Contestant or the Secretary of State Bill
Jones in determining if non-citizens voted in the 1996
election.\79\ ...
The Majority analysis began with a shotgun approach,
sweeping into its ``suspect voter'' category over 500,000
registrant name matches. The Majority attempted to refine . ...
number by including only 46th Congressional District registrant
names to be matched with INS files. This resulted in 136,000
matching names, which is more ``suspect voters'' than actual
voters in the 46th Congressional election in 1996. This again
suggests that the foundation upon which the Majority analysis
proceeded was fundamentally flawed. ...
9th--The California Secretary of State announced that an
INS analysis of 1,100 persons enrolled in Hermandad citizenship
classes had discovered 490 documented non-citizens who
registered to vote in CA 46. Of these, 303 actually voted
illegally in CA 46, and 69 individuals had no record in INS
files. ...
dismissal of the cases of Hendon v. Clarke in 1983 and Hansen
v. Stallings in 1985 where persuasive allegations of irregular
vote countings were plead properly.29 ...
Similarly, in Farr v. McLane 98 the Committee
addressed an election contest containing a wide range of
violations including: (1) unregistered voters casting ballots;
(2) names appearing on the voted tape for persons who had not
cast ballots; (3) individuals voting who were minors or had not
paid the mandatory poll tax; and (4) the placement of
fraudulent ballots in the ballot box. The Committee found that
for the majority of the 1,006 illegal votes, there was no way
to determine for which candidate the votes were cast. It
determined that in the districts in which there was conclusive
evidence of fraud on the part of the election officials,
precedent justified rejecting the entire vote of these
precincts. The Committee emphasized that in these precincts not
only had persons been permitted to vote who had not registered,
but there was evidence of other fraud and collusion on the part
of election officials. ...
The Committee used proportional deduction to apportion the
illegal votes of non-citizens in Bailey v. Walters,
95 including aliens who had never been naturalized
and would not disclose for whom they voted. The Committee
subtracted the votes of non-citizen voters who testified for
whom they voted from the appropriate candidates' totals. For
non-citizen voters who exercised their Constitutional right not
to disclose their vote, the Committee used proportional
deduction to attribute their votes. ...
This represents the first time that the House has moved
forward with a hearing on the merits of an election contest
under the FCEA. This decision was based on the substantial and
credible allegations of fraud contained in Mr. Dornan's Notice.
These allegations were supported by independent investigations
being conducted by the California Secretary of State and the
Orange County District Attorney. ...
 
No the Electoral College allows a minority to dictate to the majority

This is "mob rule"

Like the Nazis, the Bolsheviks and the Taliban

Reject the EC and with it reject the politics of mob rule

Americans don't want to become Nazis




So make the citizens and at a stroke they are not illegal voters

And why would they become Democrats? Is it because the Republicans only have a message for the rich ?

No, vote for turning illegal immigrants into legal citizens with a legal vote and throw Republicanism into the trash can of history for good.

Sadly, democrats do not understand fairness, reason, logic, truth and other necessary aspects of good government. They have lied, broken laws, oppressed, brutalized and otherwise done damage to Americans and laws for the sake and benefit of democrats and the democrat party. As democrats gained greater control in major population centers in the US they also crafted unfair laws making it harder for republicans to compete with them in local and state elections.

Large democrat hubs are now attempting to change national laws for the same reason, to make it easier for democrats to win elections and harder for republicans to exercise influence in politics. Just because democrats have completely lost sight of why the electoral college was established in the first place is no reason for Americans to be fooled into getting rid of it.
 
Marke, it would be illegal for California to open its borders to immigration. When California joined the Union one of it's sovereign powers it gave up was immigration, only the Federal government has the power to grant immigration status.

Nevertheless, California has passed laws making it illegal for US law enfocement officers to deport criminal aliens and have passed laws allowing illegals to vote and made it illegal to check the legal status of those voting or who already voted.
 
Sadly, democrats do not understand fairness, reason, logic, truth and other necessary aspects of good government.


:lamo


And you want 4 more years of Trump ?


They have lied, broken laws, oppressed, brutalized and otherwise done damage to Americans and laws for the sake and benefit of democrats and the democrat party. As democrats gained greater control in major population centers in the US they also crafted unfair laws making it harder for republicans to compete with them in local and state elections.

Trump isn't a Democrat


Large democrat hubs are now attempting to change national laws for the same reason, to make it easier for democrats to win elections and harder for republicans to exercise influence in politics. Just because democrats have completely lost sight of why the electoral college was established in the first place is no reason for Americans to be fooled into getting rid of it.

And the Republicans want to keep the anti-democratic EC to prolong the poison they're spreading into the national fabric
 
I have been doing some homework or refresher on early presidential elections. I discovered/re-learned that the founders were really torn on our presidential election system. Half wanted to go with the direct vote for President aka national popular vote, while the other half wanted congress to pick the President. Their compromise or 11th hour decision was electors. The belief here was that the average Joe were uneducated/uninformed on the issues, needed political experts to vote on their behalf, and feared they would pick a tyrant. Electors were the middle-ground people. They were not members of the U.S Senator or Congress. They were local political figures and had a broad understanding of the world around them.

Fast forward to 2020. We live in an age of the internet, social media, television, radio, and wide range of transportation options. Most of the population has some sort of post High School education. On one hand, we're all more educated than we were in the late 18th century, but at the same time, very few people actually watch the news on a regular basis. We have people to live in their own bubble and vote by party line. You watch Fox News, you get the impression that Trump is a victim and the Democrats are evil. You watch CNN or MSNBC, you get the impression that Democrats are heroes and Trump is a clown dressed in a suit.

Does the concept of electors really matter anymore? Originally they were suppose to be free thinking and provide a check on the American people. In the 20th century, we literally had only 7 faithless electors total. So far this century, we have had 8 total. The 2016 election brought forth 6 of the 8. I am just curious if we still need political experts to vote on our behalf.

The Supreme Court ruled unanimously Monday that states can require presidential electors to back their states’ popular vote winner in the Electoral College.
Justice Elena Kagan wrote for the court that a state may instruct “electors that they have no ground for reversing the vote of millions of its citizens. That direction accords with the Constitution — as well as with the trust of a Nation that here, We the People rule.”
 
The Supreme Court ruled unanimously Monday that states can require presidential electors to back their states’ popular vote winner in the Electoral College.
Justice Elena Kagan wrote for the court that a state may instruct “electors that they have no ground for reversing the vote of millions of its citizens. That direction accords with the Constitution — as well as with the trust of a Nation that here, We the People rule.”

They did. States can fine electors for being faithless. Of course, my question still stands: What is the point of electors, if 32 states require their electors to be pledged electors?
 
They did. States can fine electors for being faithless. Of course, my question still stands: What is the point of electors, if 32 states require their electors to be pledged electors?

Pointless traditional ritual.
 
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